Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Windows 8 - a return to the stone age?

  1. #1

    Windows 8 - a return to the stone age?


    I've had both joys and frustrations using Windows 8. Many things feel like a throwback to ages gone by.

    Microsoft boasts that Windows 8 has faster boot times. But this isn't the case if you use a multiple boot OS. Instead of the quick prompt style boot menu, you are presented with a graphical interface which takes considerable time to load, then you have to wait for the OS you choose to boot. The simple prompt may have been ugly old and DOS like but it was lighting fast compared to the new boot menu screen. Now you have to mouse over to the choice and choose the OS you want.

    The new Metro start screen reminds me a lot of the days before Windows where we used a program called QEMM. For those who don't know, QEMM was a DOS based memory manager that allowed you to run multiple DOS applications on the same system. Once you loaded your DOS apps, you could tab between them but never see both at the same time. Much like Metro does now though much more limited.

    Windows 8 is more square than a teenage Bill Gates. Yes this is faster but it feels like I am back to running the old Windows NT 4.0 interface. The rounded edges and 3D effects have been stripped from the OS giving Windows 8 a very 2 dimensional feel. Many of the fancy designs introduced in Vista have been tossed in the trash. Even tabs are so razor sharp you could shave with them. Perhaps this is an attempt to move away from the Candy Apple coated computing that the Macintosh systems introduced but it leaves Windows feeling somewhat edgy and outdated. And short of buying third party apps, there is no real options. You must use the razor edges. Even Windows Vista & 7 gave you the option to switch to the older sharp edge NT 4.0 style screens.

    You can only run a single instance of Metro. So even if you have dual monitors it's impossible to multitask Metro apps. Rather than make Metro a windowed application that can run multiple instances, Microsoft has chosen to make Metro work on a desktop as if it was on a tablet or phone. It seems MS has forgotten that the name of the product is "Windows". Metro has nothing at all to do with Windows. It's a full screen, one app at a time OS and not befitting of the name Windows as there are simply NO windows at all.

    Metro and many of the apps are simply MASSIVE on my 24" displays. Most of the tiles take up massive amounts of real estate on the screen for no real reason. With only two size options for icons even the typical Ctrl + Mouse wheel only gives you two sizes on the Metro desktop. Most apps do not take in to account the size of the screen and you are faced with 1 to 3 inch fonts. Even browsers in Metro are slow to acknowledge the Ctrl + Mouse resize and it feels real clunky. Launch a typical weather app and you can see maybe 2 or 3 tiles spanning 1920 pixels wide. Simply put Metro has turned my 24" displays in to a giant 7" tablet screen.

    Metro's All Apps menu is a mess, in part due to the way previous versions of the operating system worked with folders. When displaying All Apps you see everything, including ReadMe files, What's New, Uninstalls, Help files, basically anything the software developer chose to put in their Start menu is now scrolled across one screen all at once making it very confusing to view much less navigate.

    The Charm bar is anything but charming with the search feature being perhaps the one exception once you figure out how to use it. Finding the Charm bar with a mouse on a 1920 x 1200 display is challenging. You have to hit just the right spot. Even the Metro Star screen (very lower left) has to be precisely placed. As for the Charm bar, on a dual monitor it's easy to slide right past it onto the next screen. Thankfully it does work on both screens. Your best bet is to forget about the mouse and just use the keyboard shortcuts.

    Devices on the Charm bar is a joke. With a Wacom tablet, wireless keyboard, wireless mouse, two printers, network, external hard drives, the only thing that shows up on my device list is my Monitors allowing me to treat the dual monitors as if it were a laptop and external display. Granted not a lot of people run dual monitors outside of a laptop. However it seems odd that with all the devices attached to this system the only "Device" Windows seems to want to deal with are the monitors. You might think that this would be left up to developers but even my Natural MS Keyboard and Mouse are not recognized as devices. Odd note on this is that Windows 8 tells me I need to install the latest version of the Intellipoint software. If you attempt to do so, the software tells you that you have a more current version installed. Perhaps a new release is in the works but gone for now are the special functions of Intellipoint.

    Settings on the Charm bar also have some quirky issues. For one there is a brightness icon that states that is grayed out and Not Available. So why show the icon at all? It would be a simple matter to allow desktop systems to adjust the brightness though the included nVidia drivers but instead it's just another thing taking up space with no function. We now actually have a use for the term "Dunsel".

    Uninstalling an app depends on the type of app it is. Metro apps do not show up in the Control Panel under the Uninstall a program. Metro apps can be uninstalled easily enough but why not list them in the Control Panel as well? Some apps such as browsers (Chrome and Firefox) must be uninstalled from the Control Panel even though they have a Metro version installed.

    Which brings me to my next issue. You need to be aware that your desktop browser is NOT your Metro browser. They appear to be completely separate and settings in one may not be reflected in the other. Such things as History or favorites may not show up. If you have security set up on pages like Facebook, you will have to register both the Metro version and the Desktop version. There is no unification of the program.

    The overall clear message that I seem to get is that MS badly wants to get in to the Phone and Tablet market and they hope to push the Metro issue upon everyone whether they use a Windows mobile device or not. One could foresee this as another issue MS will have to deal with legally as they did with IE's integration in to the OS. It could be argued that they should allow the installation of a iOS Start menu, Android Start menu, even a Blackberry Start menu if the president has his way, that runs apps designed for the iPhone, Android and Blackberry devices.

    Gadgets have gone the way of the dinosaurs. Gadgets and the Live Desktop were always problematic for MS but not because they were bad ideas but because they were never implemented properly nor updated. With Windows 8 you can reinstall the gadgets but they are a hack and no longer supported by MS. The excuse we got was that they were prone to viruses and malware but that is the case for most applications and as long as you run a descent antivirus / malware program you are just as well protected. And worst, there is no way to pin a Metro tile to your desktop. I will really miss my Pandora gadget along with my moon phase, network monitor and other gadgets that gave me information at a glance without having to switch screens.

    With all this said, you might think I hate Windows 8. I do like it in many ways. But I feel it, like many previous versions of Windows will suffer from some of these issues and I cannot see large IT departments jumping on the Windows 8 bandwagon as it seems it will cause a huge number of headaches. Perhaps Windows 9 will address some of these issues.

    The good news is that if you want Windows 8 the price is right at least for the moment and Media Center is currently free. There is increased security, speed, an much improved search function but if you plan to work with the desktop, you will be forced to deal with the tablet / phone interface of Metro.

    Try not to flame me too badly.
    Darv

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    You've noted pretty much what I've said about the Modern interface. Windows 8 appears fundamentally good, if only one didn't need third party programs to bring back the proper desktop (for those that want it).
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Interesting.

    I do agree about the IE unification, it's annoying sometimes.

    The boot menu doesn't concern me, even if I had a dual boot going, I'd prefer the new boot manager over the DOS looking thing. But that's just me.

    Charms bar is another thing. The reason why nothing under Devices shows up, I'm guessing this is from the Desktop, is purely a coding impediment that doesn't allow win32 to directly access the winRT framework, as it kind of signals a shift away from the old win32 coding environment to the new WinRT one. But, if you use the metro apps, for example Reader, and you go to Devices, you should see your printers there. The apps are coded to use relevant devices, such as a pdf reader will use a printer over a monitor. You wouldn't need to use an external hard drive, as that's a save command which is in the app's code itself. Meaning, you need to right click and hit Save as and direct the file to the hard drive. Think of it this way, the Charms bar is the system commands bar is a like a gate-dam type of thing that directs commands around. Sharing is done by the system, search, using devices, and other random settings are used by those system commands. The metro apps themselves have their own commands as well. The Desktop will most likely be used to connect to another screen versus a printer, so on and so forth. And as for getting the Charms bar open, you do know that the top and bottom left corners do it, not just the bottom one? I can't say how it's like with a dual monitor setup, but I do know after the Developer Preview, Microsoft made the Charms bar easier to open with a larger target.

    I do also agree about the superfluous icons in the Settings charm, most likely that will become like the system tray in the Desktop where you can customize it better.

    To comment about the sharp edges, to me it looks more better than having EVERYTHING glossed, rounded, and thrown into a 3D perspective on a 2D plane. It's weird. vista looks weird, as well as xp. The two share the crown of real awful Fischer-Pricy design, ESPECIALLY xp. vista is more of a glassier, 3D, shiny version of xp's luna theme.

    You can use the new Task Manager, and shrink it down and keep it on top of everything, it basically can turn into a gadget.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I'm not going to flame you per se, but I am going to correct some misinformation and try to explain why some of your conclusions are incorrect. I will say, however, that you have committed the cardinal sin in flamewars, which is to present your opinions as if they were indisputable fact. This is what causes many of the flamewars you see here, because people with different opinions will call BS on you. (For example, claiming that Metro is useless or impossible to use with a keyboard and mouse, or my favorite, or my favorite, that it's indisputable that Menus are better than everything else).

    You will find that many things can be viewed from different perspectives. What seems bad to you from your perspective is good to me from a different one. Understanding the reasons behind the choices may help you accept these changes, and not just assume they are change for the sake of change.

    With that being said, on with the commentary:

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    Microsoft boasts that Windows 8 has faster boot times. But this isn't the case if you use a multiple boot OS.
    So your complaint is that it makes Windows 7 boot slower, not that Windows 8 is slower. That's really not a fair argument, because it does not in fact prove Microsoft's claim wrong. You have to have a boot menu regardless, and when you select Windows 8 it starts almost instantly afterwards.

    This is a function of the UEFI based nature of the 8 boot loader. It's designed to take advantage of the features that UEFI provide (particularly ultra fast POSTing and boots), which the Windows 7 boot loader is not designed for. This means that MS had a choice to either make Windows 8 boot slower, so that the small number of people dual booting can get to 7 faster, or make the vast majority of people have a fast boot. It's an easy choice, and one I would make if I were in MS's shoes.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    The new Metro start screen reminds me a lot of the days before Windows where we used a program called QEMM.
    This comparison is not far off from reality. Metro is in fact a different OS from Win32, with a different UI and a different API. Metro apps are not Win32 apps, and Win32 apps are not Metro apps (usually, there is a small compatibility layer that allows Win32 apps to run in Metro mode, and apps like IE and Chrome use this to create their Metro modes).

    Since Metro (technically called WinRT for Windows RunTime, and not to be confused with Windows RT, the name of the ARM based version of Windows.. so called because it primarily only runs WinRT aka Metro aka Modern apps) is a separate OS subsystem that runs beside the Win32 Subsystem, the comparison to QEMM has some validity. However, you were mainly referring to the way the UI works and not the fact that QEMM ran multiple virtual machines.

    Keeping mind that Metro is a separate subsystem, it's not much different from a full-screen VM running VMware or Hyper-V. Thus, we access Metro apps through a "Viewer" of sorts, which is the full-screen interface. Metro apps do not integrate into the desktop and they never will, since the desktop is essentially deprecated, and will not have a lot of major new functionality added to it in future versions. It will, of course, continue to be around for years to come.. but we can already see the first leanings of this in Windows RT devices (like Surface) where the only desktop apps are Office and those that come with the OS.

    Also keep in mind that Metro is essential Version 1 of a new Windows OS. As is the case with nearly all software, it never springs fully formed in its first version. There are tons of features they'd like to add, but did not have time to implement in this version. Later versions will improve upon the system, add more functionality, and of course take over many of the desktop functions that are currently needed today. That will be an ongoing process, however and could take several versions before they have completely removed all need for the desktop, other than for backwards compatibility.

    So my point is this. It may seem like two separate OS's because it is. And they may not seem to be well integrated because they're not supposed to be. Metro is supposed to take over all of the desktops duties, and there is no point in spending time and money on integrating the two only to remove it in the next version.

    I say all this because I am trying to make you understand the reasons for the things you complain about. I'm not saying your complaints are not valid, but I am saying most of them are temporary, and the result of a transition between one OS and another, not unlike the way we moved from DOS to Windows, and Apple moved from 68k to PPC and then to x86. Windows 1, 2, 3, 95, 98 and ME were all compromises as well, and transitionary systems with many faults and hard seams. But we forget about this after all the years of using the end product of that transition.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    Windows 8 is more square than a teenage Bill Gates.
    Much of this is just personal preference, and not any real functional or technical complaint. You don't like the new branding, fine.. but MS has deliberately chosen this brand, and it will probably change again in the next version, much like most branding has done over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    You can only run a single instance of Metro.
    Again, that's because Metro is a single subsystem. It's also designed to provide a common platform for low-resource platforms and high resource platforms alike. This will likely improve over time, as they find ways to allow Metro apps to take advantage of the more resource heavy platforms while still maintaining compatibility with the low-resource ones (Phones, low-end tablets, etc..)

    You may consider this a step backwards, and in some ways you are indeed correct. Metro is not as mature as Win32 is. But also, it's a fresh start. They can jettison many of the old legacy cruft and can start new. That start may be modest at this point, but I fully expect it to become just as full-featured (if not more so) than Win32. The thing that is a HUGE step forward is that Windows 8 is the first OS from Microsoft that actually combines all levels of computing into one platform. Phones to Supercomputers, Tablets to Servers.

    Previously, Phone based versions of Windows were based on Windows CE, a sort-of Windows-like low-resource based OS that kinda-sorta had a windowsy API, but lacked most real features. This meant user could not run the same apps on their desktop as their windows mobile device. Developers had to choose which platform to support, and they had to recompile their apps for multiple platforms. This is no longer the case (with some exceptions, which will go away with time, like DirectX based apps). You can purchase an app once and install it on up to 5 devices, phones, tablets, or desktops.

    Many people say "I don't want to use Phone or Tablet apps on my desktop", and that may be true today (mostly), but will not be true in the future as phone apps now have the full power of Windows 8 and Metro. We're already seeing certain classes of apps as usable on all devices (largely games, and utilities at this point, with some productivity and social media apps coming along).

    What you don't want is to run TODAY'S phone apps on your desktop. You will want to run TOMORROW's apps, in all likelihood.

    So Metro has some limitations today. A single full-screen window is one of them. And I fully agree that it would be nice if it were otherwise, but at this point that's what it is. Microsoft is fully aware it's not ideal, so whining and ranting about it is just preaching to the choir, but it was a necessary step at this time.

    The "Windows" comments are cute, but ignore the fact that Windows is filled with Windows, even in full-screen mode. Every button, every icon, every link, every textbox is a window. "Windows" does not refer only to movable, top-level windows. Remember, Windows 1.0 couldn't even overlap windows.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    Most apps do not take in to account the size of the screen and you are faced with 1 to 3 inch fonts. Even browsers in Metro are slow to acknowledge the Ctrl + Mouse resize and it feels real clunky. Launch a typical weather app and you can see maybe 2 or 3 tiles spanning 1920 pixels wide. Simply put Metro has turned my 24" displays in to a giant 7" tablet screen.
    Here, I really don't understand your argument. It's true that Metro apps are full screen, but they are fully DPI aware. If you have more pixels, it should show more stuff, not just make it bigger. The start page shows more tiles per page, and the tiles should be the same size on a 30" monitor as they are on a 10" monitor, as should the size of fonts and other items. I think you're reaching for an argument that doesn't exist here.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    Metro's All Apps menu is a mess, in part due to the way previous versions of the operating system worked with folders.
    All Apps is designed to make good use of searching. Apps are also categorized by their subfolders. Are you arguing that All apps shouldn't show all apps? Really?

    The Start Page is there for a reason, to put the items you use in a place they are easily accessible. All Programs is there when you need to dig in further. Most people should seldom need to go there, and if they do search should give them what they want most of the time.

    The Start Page has the same basic design philosophy as the Ribbon, and that's to be more scalable and manageable when the size of its items grow larger and larger. You can organize the start page and crate named groups for items. But the most important thing about it is that it can more easily grow to infinity, whereas the old start menu was limited by screen space. Ever seen a start menu where there were more items than could fit on the screen? It's not pretty.

    Both the Ribbon and the Start Page were created with the idea that as computers get faster and larger, then people will install more and more stuff on them. Microsoft has written a lot about how the old Office menus were growing out of hand and that the vast majority of feature requests were for features that already existed in Office, but people didn't know how to find them.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    Finding the Charm bar with a mouse on a 1920 x 1200 display is challenging.
    I really don't have a problem with it. But that's why there are multiple ways of accessing it, such as by hotkey (WinKey+C) or by gesture (with a touch based device, there are also now touchpads that allow you to use these gestures on a desktop system, without needing a touch screen monitor).

    Multi-monitor has always been a problem with features like Aero Snap and Charms and what not, that's why function keys are there (and there will probably be new Windows 8 keyboards that provide these hotkeys as simple buttons). I know, I have 3 monitors, two 23" and one 27" 2560x1440 IPS. I use things quite well in this environment, it just takes a little getting used to.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    Devices on the Charm bar is a joke.
    I think you are confused about what the Charms bar Devices is for. It's purpose is similar to the Share button, but rather allows you to "send" things to a device. Many of the devices you mention can't have things sent to them, thus they won't be in the devices menu. Your printers should definitely be in that list, unless you are using older drivers for them. It doesn't do anything with the desktop though, it only works in Metro apps.

    Regarding Intellipoint, I have installed the latest version. I think you must be using an older version of it.

    The brightness only functions on laptops where they have integrated brightness control. Most if not all external monitors do not support changing brightness over a DVI or HDMI cable. I have never seen this function of the NVidia drivers in a desktop work.

    I agree about the disabled button, but this is really a minor gripe.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    Uninstalling an app depends on the type of app it is.
    And again, this is a function of the fact that Metro *IS* a different OS, and Microsoft does not want to spend time and money integrating them when it will just go away. This "problem" will go away as more and more apps are Metro apps rather than desktop apps. Apps like Chrome and Firefox are desktop apps, even though they "appear" to be Metro apps. They're using a compatibility shim feature to do that. Thus they must be uninstalled in the desktop.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    You need to be aware that your desktop browser is NOT your Metro browser.
    While this is true, it's also not true. Things like cookies, and caches and what not should all carry through. I've never seen what you're talking about with separate security. They should be the same in that regard. Favorites should also carry through. They do on my system.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    The overall clear message that I seem to get is that MS badly wants to get in to the Phone and Tablet market and they hope to push the Metro issue upon everyone whether they use a Windows mobile device or not.
    In actuality, Microsoft is just looking at the numbers. Desktop PC sales are down more than 50%, and there are already way more mobile devices being sold than desktops. The next 10 years will show that gap increase even more. Their assumption is that EVERYONE will have a mobile device at some point, and that OS functionality parity will occur (iOS and MacOS are likewise merging, and then there's android and ChromeOS as well). Now, whether people have all Microsoft mobile devices or not is hard to say, but that's clearly what Microsoft would prefer.

    Most people will only want to buy an app once and be able to run it on all their devices. They will want all their data synchronized. They will want a seamless experience between them. As I've written about several times, it's very likely that mobile devices will become as powerful as desktops and most people will just carry their phone around and "plug it in" to their tablet interface or desktop dock. There are already some devices that do that.

    The point is, in the not too distant future (next sunday, A.D.) there won't be much of a distinction between the type of device, other than it's portability characteristics.

    So Microsoft is not "desperately trying to gain some of the phone and tablet markets" so much as realizing that there will only BE a phone and tablet market in the future, with desktops being a small minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    Gadgets have gone the way of the dinosaurs.
    Yes, and the reason is that they were insecure. Not just for viruses and malware, but also hackers who want to gain access to your computer and plunder it for banking information, or use it as a spam or child pornography relay. Antivirus can only protect to a certain point. The fact is, even if you are successful at keeping your system secure despite the vulnerability, most others would not be.

    As for the gadgets being "at a glance", all you have to do is tap the windows key to see them. This is the same way gadgets work in MacOS, and there seems to be no outcry about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    But I feel it, like many previous versions of Windows will suffer from some of these issues and I cannot see large IT departments jumping on the Windows 8 bandwagon as it seems it will cause a huge number of headaches. Perhaps Windows 9 will address some of these issues.
    Many IT departments will welcome Windows 8 on phones and tablets. They may be reluctant to roll it out on desktops, but that's fine. Windows 8 is primarily designed for casual users at this point, although it has lots of very nice enterprise features as well. Those features may win out and win over IT departments, but that's yet to be seen. Remember, Microsoft sold Windows 9x as primarily a consumer OS for years, with their NT based systems reserved for businesses. Eventually they merged them in XP. Microsoft is no stranger to marketing to different markets.

    The improved BitLocker will be very attractive to Enterprises with mobile work forces, and I can see them rolling out 8 on laptops for sales staff, who might also benefit from Metro based sales automation tools. Still, even if enterprises don't upgrade, it's probably in Microsoft's plan and will likely improve things in Windows 9.

    Again, you have to think of Windows 8 as a transitional OS. It's not perfect, and if you don't like living on the bleeding edge then it may not be right for you. Most people, however, will only have a short period of confusion and will adapt and get on with their lives.. since they don't care about the OS at all (you know those people, you look at their computer and find they have 3000 uninstalled security updates, and complain about how slow their computer is because it's filled with spyware and viruses).

    People will use whatever they have. When they bought iPhones, they had to figure them out. When they bought Android devices, they had to figure those out. The same will be true of Windows 8.

    If you accept Windows 8 for what it is, and not insist that it be Windows 7, then you will probably enjoy it a lot more. If not, then I suggest you go back to Windows 7, which will be supported until 2019.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Just happy I only have Win8 installed on one computer, seems I spend a lot of time trying to find the small helpful things I really liked and used in my Win7. And I end up on another computer running Win7 most of the time. There is just so much that I don't have any use for that is taking up a lot of space. Maybe thinking outside the box is just not a lot to think about Microsoft. Keep this in mind many times less is better.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    I do wonder if the Modern interface will ever function in multiple screen and multiple openings on one screen, anywhere in the near future at least. Surely Microsoft would have thought about this when designing the interface and calculated that into the design specs. Multi-tasking (depending on how you interpret mutli-tasking) has been a fact of life for ages and it's been neutered in the Modern interface.

    I have two, 23" monitors attached to my desktop and any app that I open, opens full screen on one monitor and I can't open another until I close the former. I can only use the dual screen capability when I invoke the desktop and desktop programs. Why?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I place 8 cents saying that the Blue update will allow better metro app multitasking. My guess as to why they didn't do full blown windowing with the apps is they had to build on the lowest common denominator: ARM processors.

    Considering that by mid-next year, ARM processors might be hitting 2.0 Ghz quad core or more, with better energy efficiency; which will allow better multitasking. It's like with Windows 1, it couldn't do a lot of multitasking considering the processors of the day. But by Windows 2, especially 95, Windows was multitasking with ease as the processors by 1995 were more powerful than 1985.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8


    Posts : 1,770
    Windows Phone 6, Windows CE 5, Windows Vista x32, Windows 7 x32/x64, Windows 8 x64


    Maybe, but x86 users are, and will continue to be sceptical and disappointed until change happens.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray8 View Post
    Maybe, but x86 users are, and will continue to be sceptical and disappointed until change happens.
    This is true.

    Thinking about this, Windows RT runs on ARM processors and therefore needs some limitations to multitasking. A tablet PC with an Atom processor doesn't need those limitations. It does need power efficiency limitations. Kind of makes me question if the current app snapping limitations shouldn't be there.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by darvin View Post
    Metro's All Apps menu is a mess
    Click image for larger version
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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