Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Is Start Menu really matter?

  1. #41


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sgage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I'm finding as time goes on, the majority of people that complain about not having a start menu are just people that have used it for 15 or more years, that doesn't change without people throwing their hands up in the air. Now, is the Start Screen better than the menu? From my experience personally and seeing how others have used Windows 7 shows yes. It is better. When people figured out how to pin things to the Taskbar, the need for the Most Frequently Used list of the menu becomes redundant. A typical laptop resolution can have over 16 items pinned to it, which is more than what the MFU lists can display. Most of those usually have jumplists that are used. Usually after that, the All Programs list becomes a once in a blue moon adventure, I honestly can't say if it's ever used or not from what I can gather. If something needs found, it's either in the MFU list and not pinned to the Taskbar, or just searched for with a text query. Or sometimes, people just keep shortcuts on the Desktop and use those, basically how Windows has been used since like Windows 2 and 3. I know I PERSONALLY used the start menu quite often. I preferred having items pinned to the Taskbar of the programs I used often. I didn't use the MFU list as I kept the All Programs neat and tidy and could find things pretty quickly when needed. Shoot, I was thinking about doubling the size of the Taskbar and pinning EVERY program I had installed onto it, which would make the start menu UTTERLY pointless...

    Now, there are a very slim group of people that probably use the Taskbar pins and the start menu in conjunction. There is a small group of people that do use the All Programs list as they have their poop in a group and have things organized to find a program that they don't use too often. That's them, that's not the overwhelming group of everyone else.

    I just helped build a budget gaming rig for a friend of mine who is a HARD CORE PC gamer, the kind that has actual shelves full of PC game disks, along with a huge collection of Steam games. He went for Windows 8 as he really doesn't get why people are complaining about a start menu that he never used. And this is true, looking at his start menu, I can see why he just used the Desktop shortcuts as that was a MESS! In a Start Screen environment, those Desktop shortcuts become tiles on the Start Screen, of which can be organized neatly, things can be unpinned if needed, grouped, and further tweaked with a couple of third party tools. The Start Screen effectively becomes the original purpose of the Desktop, of that being just being the launcher of programs. It's visual like the Desktop, except different.


    But honestly, people did complain when Windows 95 came out and forced people to use the start menu. People complained about the Luna UI design of xp being crap to the old school UI. People did complain when vista condensed this preposterous fly-out start menu that took over the whole Desktop if large enough and condensed it down into this small little scroll menu. There were even people that complained about the new Taskbar in Windows 7 saying just that they didn't like it. In retrospect, people adopted the use of the start menu. People adopted the use of the newer start menu in xp. People adopted and defend the vista style start menu. People adopted the use of the new Taskbar in 7. And in all new UI changes, people just took advantage of the new over the old. Do you see people complaining and trying to disable the start menu in Windows these days like in 95? No. Was it easy to disable the start menu in 95? Yes. But did matter five years later with 98 or 2000? Not really.
    You talk about majorities of people doing this, and slim minorities of people doing that. Do you have any data? I didn't think so. You are merely projecting, simply making it up. The way everyone in this useless discussion does.
    Please, Metro lovers, simply leave it alone, and accept that, e.g., Metro simply doesn't work for many serious PC users. Why the constant psychoanalyzing? You do your thing your way, and I'll do my thing my way. But this constant over-analysis based on nothing is getting very, very tiresome.

    Can't we just give it a rest?
    I don't I need to be showing data when Microsoft, the makers of Windows, have already shown the data; of which some people call BS on just because they don't like the Start Screen.

    I say the same, stop assuming you simply can't use Windows 8 for anything serious and we can be off on our merry ways. What I used to do with 7 I can do that same easier and better with 8. If you don't want to see that and state fallacies on something you're not fully aware of, then no amount of reasoning or logic or data or proof can obviously show otherwise.
    In other words, you have no data.

    But never mind - I didn't say Windows 8 was useless for getting work done - I was talking about Metro. I've tried very hard to make sense of the apps for a typical workflow, and just don't see it. Again, on a tablet or something, probably some utility.

    I think part of the futility of this "debate" is equating 'Windows 8' with 'Metro'. I've always said the Desktop is a good Windows. I use a 3rd party start menu. All is well.

    Metro is useless on a desktop system with a large screen and no touch. Maybe it works for you - more power to you.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #42


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by sgage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sgage View Post

    You talk about majorities of people doing this, and slim minorities of people doing that. Do you have any data? I didn't think so. You are merely projecting, simply making it up. The way everyone in this useless discussion does.
    Please, Metro lovers, simply leave it alone, and accept that, e.g., Metro simply doesn't work for many serious PC users. Why the constant psychoanalyzing? You do your thing your way, and I'll do my thing my way. But this constant over-analysis based on nothing is getting very, very tiresome.

    Can't we just give it a rest?
    I don't I need to be showing data when Microsoft, the makers of Windows, have already shown the data; of which some people call BS on just because they don't like the Start Screen.

    I say the same, stop assuming you simply can't use Windows 8 for anything serious and we can be off on our merry ways. What I used to do with 7 I can do that same easier and better with 8. If you don't want to see that and state fallacies on something you're not fully aware of, then no amount of reasoning or logic or data or proof can obviously show otherwise.
    In other words, you have no data.

    But never mind - I didn't say Windows 8 was useless for getting work done - I was talking about Metro. I've tried very hard to make sense of the apps for a typical workflow, and just don't see it. Again, on a tablet or something, probably some utility.

    I think part of the futility of this "debate" is equating 'Windows 8' with 'Metro'. I've always said the Desktop is a good Windows. I use a 3rd party start menu. All is well.

    Metro is useless on a desktop system with a large screen and no touch. Maybe it works for you - more power to you.
    Reflecting on your comments on the Start screen - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN BlogsEvolving the Start menu - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

    Never said I had no data, congratulations on putting words in my mouth!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #43


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    You can present any figures any way you like to achieve your goal.

    That doesn't mean the start screen/metro stuff is good on a desktop.

    It absolutely is not.

    Stevie S does mention 3rd party programs there too.

    This peculiar idea that people do not use the start menu is floating about.

    It is plainly wrong. Just by the amount of posts on forums and start menu replacements out there - it is pretty obvious.

    Metro is very poor for desktop use.

    It is there to cope with the limitations of small screens and touch only. It probably does a reasonable job for at that.

    Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice & Power Users (Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox)

    Windows 8 UX: Weak on Tablets, Terrible for PCs
    You don't have those limitations on a desktop/laptop.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #44


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    You can present any figures any way you like to achieve your goal.
    Dude. First you demanded data, then you taunted about not having data. When data was presented, you claim data is useless.

    Your bluff was called. You lost. Don't keep pretending.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #45


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    I didn't demand any data. Neither did I taunt about not having data.

    I made a general point about Cokie's posts - I like the enthusiasm , he is sometimes funny. He seems totally besotted with things MS and touch.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #46


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    You can present any figures any way you like to achieve your goal.

    That doesn't mean the start screen/metro stuff is good on a desktop.

    It absolutely is not.

    Stevie S does mention 3rd party programs there too.

    This peculiar idea that people do not use the start menu is floating about.

    It is plainly wrong. Just by the amount of posts on forums and start menu replacements out there - it is pretty obvious.

    Metro is very poor for desktop use.

    It is there to cope with the limitations of small screens and touch only. It probably does a reasonable job for at that.

    Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice & Power Users (Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox)

    Windows 8 UX: Weak on Tablets, Terrible for PCs
    You don't have those limitations on a desktop/laptop.
    You can present subjective third party opinions all you like, but it doesn't refute the notion that the Start Screen is better and faster, as well as being more feature rich, than the start menu.

    And this is what I mean, it's at the point where no matter WHAT is presented to argue this case, there will be ALWAYS someone or something that won't ever recognize or acknowledge it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #47


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    You can present any figures any way you like to achieve your goal.
    Dude. First you demanded data, then you taunted about not having data. When data was presented, you claim data is useless.

    Your bluff was called. You lost. Don't keep pretending.
    Who are you, Coke Robot's sock puppet? But if you were referring to me...

    I asked for data. CR said he didn't need any data, and that since I'm such a hater (which I'm not) it wouldn't matter. He could have just presented his "data" (MSDN blog posts) right then and there. I don't claim data is useless - I just didn't see any.

    I had no bluff to be called. I didn't lose anything. And I'm not pretending anything. This is just childish jibbering. This place is getting to be more like a schoolyard than a serious tech forum.

    You talk about taunting - the taunting started with the Start Screen enthusiasts here essentially claiming that if you didn't like the Start Screen and preferred a Start Menu you were:

    - afraid of change
    - incapable of change
    - a dinosaur
    - just not getting with the program
    - etc., etc.

    This nonsense has been going on since the very beginning, and is both untrue and very offensive. That's all I've been trying to point out in this thread and a couple of others on this forum.

    If you like the Start Screen, fine. It is no threat to me or those of us who prefer to use one of the several Start Menu solutions being offered by 3rd parties. But keep the patronizing insults to yourself, that's all I ask.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #48


    Australia
    Posts : 716
    Windows 7 Ult Reatil & Win 8 Pro OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by sgage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    You can present any figures any way you like to achieve your goal.
    Dude. First you demanded data, then you taunted about not having data. When data was presented, you claim data is useless.

    Your bluff was called. You lost. Don't keep pretending.
    Who are you, Coke Robot's sock puppet? But if you were referring to me...

    I asked for data. CR said he didn't need any data, and that since I'm such a hater (which I'm not) it wouldn't matter. He could have just presented his "data" (MSDN blog posts) right then and there. I don't claim data is useless - I just didn't see any.

    I had no bluff to be called. I didn't lose anything. And I'm not pretending anything. This is just childish jibbering. This place is getting to be more like a schoolyard than a serious tech forum.

    You talk about taunting - the taunting started with the Start Screen enthusiasts here essentially claiming that if you didn't like the Start Screen and preferred a Start Menu you were:

    - afraid of change
    - incapable of change
    - a dinosaur
    - just not getting with the program
    - etc., etc.

    This nonsense has been going on since the very beginning, and is both untrue and very offensive. That's all I've been trying to point out in this thread and a couple of others on this forum.

    If you like the Start Screen, fine. It is no threat to me or those of us who prefer to use one of the several Start Menu solutions being offered by 3rd parties. But keep the patronizing insults to yourself, that's all I ask.
    Says it all.


    Fanbois suddenly becme clairvoyants and can see what people who don't like W8 are doing on their PCs. And use unsubstantiated generalities to try and prove why people who don't like Metro are out of line.

    That kind of irrational thinking is as nutty as a fruit cake.
    Last edited by Mustang; 02 Dec 2012 at 09:49.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #49


    Posts : 39
    Windows 8 Pro x64


    I don't see why everyone is so upset when there is start menu programs out there. I think all this energy should be focused more on coming up with a solution to bringing back aero transparency glass. With that back Windows 8 would be a true feature complete OS with many options for all types of users.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #50


    Posts : 7
    Windows8


    Not liking 8 so far and it has been about 3 weeks now. It came per-installed on my new pc. Previously was using Vista Home. It's a leap. As another said, just shutting down was something I had to google how tos on without pushing the power off button. I am seriously considering getting a for dummies or similar book and have been using a pc since win 95 so long ago and just about every version since then. Why should I have to take lessons or read a book to learn a whole new operating system?? I just want to power on and go! Too much searching in the "charms" or how- tos.
    I'm also not liking how 8 does the photos, no more right click to delete , now I gave to go to the bottom of the image, find the delete button there...it doesn't seem simpler, seems like extra steps. (Sigh)
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Is Start Menu really matter?
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