Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Is Start Menu really matter?

  1. #101


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)


    You don't have to press enter twice to search in W7 (on my PC).
    Usually I only have to type a few characters and then press enter (Regedit being a notable exception).

    To do a search in W8, you have to:
    • Get to the Start Screen.
    • Access the Charms Bar.

    I don't see any improvement in terms of speed of access.

    I can't measure the alleged performance improvement (i.e. it may or may not be true).

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  2. #102


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,376
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    You don't have to press enter twice to search in W7 (on my PC).
    Usually I only have to type a few characters and then press enter (Regedit being a notable exception).

    To do a search in W8, you have to:
    • Get to the Start Screen.
    • Access the Charms Bar.

    I don't see any improvement in terms of speed of access.

    I can't measure the alleged performance improvement (i.e. it may or may not be true).
    Hi there
    actually it's EVEN WORSE than that

    say you have a complex application with a lot of sub menus and sub-sub menus etc.

    You might not even KNOW the name of what you want by heart so doing a search won't help you -- nor will the tile scroll ==> but on a Classic menu system you see the HIERARCHIAL drop down --so you can get to it -- you probably know the higher level (say level 2) option but not all the level 3 sub sub menu options.

    As I've often said the tiles are fine for a SMALL number of relatively simple applications without a load of complex choices within those applications -- rather like a typical smart phone -- and touch screen scrolling on those is fine.

    But for what I've outlined above --in NO WAY is the W8 system quicker or easier to navigate.

    Two totally different sets of workflow needed -- that's why the OS needs to be customisable a bit more for traditional desktop users.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  3. #103


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Quote Originally Posted by lehnerus2000 View Post
    You don't have to press enter twice to search in W7 (on my PC).
    Usually I only have to type a few characters and then press enter (Regedit being a notable exception).

    To do a search in W8, you have to:
    •Get to the Start Screen.
    •Access the Charms Bar.
    Incorrect. From the start screen, there is no requirement to access the charms bar. (It is auto activated)
    When looking at the start screen, all alphanumeric keys are instantly hot keys.
    (getting to the start screen = going to the corner orb)

    Incorrect. You need to press enter to initiate a search. The start screen does not require pressing enter. When you find something, you need to press enter or click to launch it.

    I stated that searching from the charms bar is different.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    You might not even KNOW the name of what you want by heart so doing a search won't help you -- nor will the tile scroll
    You don't know what you are looking for? Really?

    In 8, a close approximation will present you will a full screen of possibilities. The results page from the 8 search has nothing to do with the start screen tiles layout. It basically takes one to the apps area where semantic zooming can be utilized (summarized and organized program groups). The workflow characteristics would be improved over a classical arrangement. Nesting and sub, sub, sub, sub menus are a huge distraction and very time consuming requiring extra effort. The navigational design of Windows 8 is an improvement over Windows 7 and presents a cleaner User Interface.

    A desktop loaded with icons is IMO, a problem (not fit for purpose). We agree to disagree. Our views differ.
    A start menu (or cascading menu) that has nested links is IMO, a problem.
    (very awkward - annoying) (not fit for purpose).
    Last edited by mdmd; 04 Dec 2012 at 16:57.
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  4. #104


    Posts : 5
    Windows 8


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    It's more than just being afraid of change, I'd it were that, I would not have even tried Windows 8.

    Unintuitive and awkward are the best terms I have for describing Windows 8. Got a call from my dad, who was helping a friend who just bought a new laptop with Windows 8. Both of them have over 30 years experience with computers and have used every version of Windows, including versions before 3.1. Their problem, neither could figure out how to shut down the computer without simply pressing the power button on the computer. Both were convinced I was pulling their leg when I explained how to do it via the charms menu.

    Some like Windows 8, some dislike it, but I think most are simply tolerating it.
    Quote Originally Posted by chingNotChing View Post
    The number one complaint on Windows 8 is not having an extra UI, but the missing of the Start Menu! I can't believe how deeply the Start Menu has already been rooted into Windows users' mind.

    I don't see its importance now as it might have in the old days when you only had a maximum of 1x-2x applications/ groups. Please look into Control Panel and recall the number of items there was in Windows 95. With a large number of items, when they are organized into a nested menu, it's not easily been located and requires many clicks to expand. Those how-tos would always be guiding your clicking e.g., Control Panel -> System -> Device ->... It requires your trained memory and precise mouse movements. I guess that your applications should always be more than system control settings.


    Why don't you simply input your application keyword in Search?


    Ubuntu, the most popular Linux distro, has taken its step to remove the Start Menu and introduced the UI Unity about 2 years ago. Although there were complaints at the early times, the users eventually realize that the Start Menu has lost its value and the new design receives more positive reviews as time goes by.


    It's sad to read posts about struggling on installing back Windows 7. I think that the missing of the Start Menu hurts only some kind of a sense of security. For me, I find myself enjoying in discovering the new experience in the Metro UI and the apps built onto. It's like I'm learning something new again. What do you think?
    LOL I have found two camps with experienced experts but I have to say it annoys me to no end to be almost called an idiot because I feel the start button / menu is essential to the Windows environment.

    Resorting to keyboard shortcuts and search is well, backwards, the whole revolution was POINT and CLICK not type

    The start button was a Point and CLick place I liked and put back with Classic shell

    Microsoft designed Windows 8 for the fingers, for Tablets and touch PC's thinking that ordinary PC's we have today are old school and will be gone........While this may happen its premature in 4th quarter 2012 it should have been released in 2nd quarter 2013 when more touch screen computers would be and will be available.

    While I hat Macs and the Mac OS I'm not a PC fanboy and will not support Windows 8 is great. Its not as bad as WIndows Me or Vista but its not as good as 7 either as a release. Under the hood its better than 7 and the UI is not as good as 7 so many will stick with 7 like they stuck with XP, not what MS wanted for sure.
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  5. #105


    Well ... I just discovered that Search is "broken" in Windows 8. How?

    I have Win8 Pro and read a thread about adding Windows Media Player. In that thread, it said to invoke Search and enter "Add features" and it would show a link.

    I did just that -- and if found NOTHING.

    So, I brought up the Charms Bar, selected Control Panel ... and there it is: "Add features to Windows 8".

    I found this using the Start8 menu in one click -- by selecting Control Panel.

    Telling me to simply use Search would have ended in me not finding it -- at all!

    So, to me, not only is using Search to find something a step backwards, it's also a failed implementation!
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  6. #106


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Click image for larger version
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  7. #107


    Posts : 5
    Windows 8


    The problem with Windows 8 is you have to tweak it so much, its not as intuitive, (Google search for Intuitive :
    in·tu·i·tive/inˈt(y)o͞oitiv/

    Adjective:
    1. Using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive.
    2. (chiefly of computer software) Easy to use and understand.

    Sure may be ok for a Tablet but not for a PC user

    Its not easy no matter how much you want to argue
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  8. #108


    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0


    Hello Howdr. Welcome to Eight Forums.


    Quote Originally Posted by Howdr View Post
    The problem with Windows 8 is you have to tweak it...Its not easy no matter how much you want to argue
    I did not tweak 8 at all. IMO, It works great and is easy to use. No need to argue. Simply agree to disagree. Totally disagree with characterization of unintuitive. 8 is excellent for a desktop PC at home or in business. Our views differ. The Microsoft sales pitch, of which they are entitled, since 8 is their product, would completely disagree that 8 is difficult to use or backwards. Mostly, most users are not familiar with the proper procedures to make effective use of Windows 8. Opinions vary.

    How many users know what semantic zooming is? (or apps area) Most are more comfortable with previous iterations of the OS. 8 is different.
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  9. #109


    Posts : 76
    Windows 8 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Hello Howdr. Welcome to Eight Forums.


    Quote Originally Posted by Howdr View Post
    The problem with Windows 8 is you have to tweak it...Its not easy no matter how much you want to argue
    I did not tweak 8 at all. IMO, It works great and is easy to use. No need to argue. Simply agree to disagree. Totally disagree with characterization of unintuitive. 8 is excellent for a desktop PC at home or in business. Our views differ. The Microsoft sales pitch, of which they are entitled, since 8 is their product, would completely disagree that 8 is difficult to use or backwards. Mostly, most users are not familiar with the proper procedures to make effective use of Windows 8. Opinions vary.

    How many users know what semantic zooming is? (or apps area) Most are more comfortable with previous iterations of the OS. 8 is different.
    Therein lies one of the problems. It's advertised to be easy to use right off the bat - yet "most users are not familiar with the proper procedures to make effective use of Windows 8". You shouldn't need to explain it, someone should just be able to use it. If the majority of your user base (they're the ones that wanted to target the armchair techies of the world) are ending up not knowing the best way to do something to make it the most efficient - then a ball was dropped somewhere. I wish I could get end users to use software a particular way just because I said that's the way you're supposed to do it.
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  10. #110


    Adelaide
    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    Wrong


    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Incorrect. From the start screen, there is no requirement to access the charms bar. (It is auto activated)
    When looking at the start screen, all alphanumeric keys are instantly hot keys.
    (getting to the start screen = going to the corner orb)
    I know that.
    I meant that you EITHER have to go to the Start Screen OR user the Charms Bar.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdmd View Post
    Incorrect. You need to press enter to initiate a search. The start screen does not require pressing enter. When you find something, you need to press enter or click to launch it.
    W7 searches as you type.

    Your W7 must be broken, you do not need to press enter to search:
    • In the Start Menu
    • In the Windows Explorer


    Click image for larger version
    (Note: Typing "sys" retrieves more appropriate results for that search.)

    You need to click on the item OR press enter to activate it (just like W8).
    Last edited by lehnerus2000; 04 Dec 2012 at 20:24. Reason: Replaced Picture
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Is Start Menu really matter?
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