Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Is Windows 8 a failure ? Time to say bye, bye MSFT ?

  1. #71


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by area 66 View Post
    What do you think will happen if Apple will license Dell and HP and others to let them use the OSX in cheaper PC ? . It won't happen , but
    You're right, it won't happen. I believe that Steve Jobs forbade it in his will (I wouldn't put it past him).

    The desktop market is dying. Or rather, it's merging with the Mobile market. In a few years, there won't be desktop computers, other than for serious gamers, engineers, or certain other niche groups. Most people will carry their computer around as their phone or tablet or both, and just plug it into a dock on their desktop.

    Why have a separate computer when you carry one around all the time?

    Anyone that bets on "competition" in the desktop market will be looking for food scraps.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #72


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    The desktop market is dying. Or rather, it's merging with the Mobile market. In a few years, there won't be desktop computers, other than for serious gamers, engineers, or certain other niche groups. Most people will carry their computer around as their phone or tablet or both, and just plug it into a dock on their desktop.
    Agree that it's not dying. The ratio of devices is changing, that's all. There are certain tasks that you would never want to do on a tablet and some you don't need a desktop for. The market is becoming more refined. Prior to this, PC's (and I include all kinds - Macs, Windows boxes, etc.) were all that was available. Now people have more choice. People that wouldn't have really needed the power of a desktop device don't have to buy one now. It's just a paradigm shift.

    I think, instead of a house with 5 PC's you're going to start seeing a house with one or two PC's as workstations/servers and the rest as handheld devices supported by the main PC. That's pretty much the direction I'm taking my house. As a developer I need "desktop" (laptop/desktop) machines. We also have 2 iPads and 2 iPhones. The balance of use is shifting somewhat to the mobile devices but when either of us need to get heavy-duty work done we return to the PC's. I don't see my desktop machines being replaced for everything, I see them being augmented.

    -Max
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #73


    Posts : 21
    Win 8 64


    I only have to look at my own own behavior. After 5 days with Win 8, my PC now looks like a Win 7 PC. I have deleted all of the metro stuff because it doesn't improve my computing. It just causes me to lose productivity. I have installed a third party start button on my desktop. It isn't as good as the Win 7 button but it is better than having no access to the file structure.

    The concept, obviously, was to have a tablet OS that would run Windows programs. By definition that means compromise. It becomes an inferior tablet OS to Android (which I have on my phone) and an inferior PC OS to Windows 7. Compromises usually work out that way.

    I even understand those that do no want to give up XP. XP was the best Windows OS in my view because it provided more control over the computing environment than anything that followed. But I'm a computer literate power use and not typical of the folks for whom Vista was designed. For me Microsoft is moving further from what I want in a PC OS. We're debating features like metro rather than debating computing. On a basis of computing Win 8 is a step backward for me.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #74


    Posts : 21
    Win 8 64


    Quote Originally Posted by Max Peck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    The desktop market is dying. Or rather, it's merging with the Mobile market. In a few years, there won't be desktop computers, other than for serious gamers, engineers, or certain other niche groups. Most people will carry their computer around as their phone or tablet or both, and just plug it into a dock on their desktop.
    Agree that it's not dying. The ratio of devices is changing, that's all. There are certain tasks that you would never want to do on a tablet and some you don't need a desktop for. The market is becoming more refined. Prior to this, PC's (and I include all kinds - Macs, Windows boxes, etc.) were all that was available. Now people have more choice. People that wouldn't have really needed the power of a desktop device don't have to buy one now. It's just a paradigm shift.

    I think, instead of a house with 5 PC's you're going to start seeing a house with one or two PC's as workstations/servers and the rest as handheld devices supported by the main PC. That's pretty much the direction I'm taking my house. As a developer I need "desktop" (laptop/desktop) machines. We also have 2 iPads and 2 iPhones. The balance of use is shifting somewhat to the mobile devices but when either of us need to get heavy-duty work done we return to the PC's. I don't see my desktop machines being replaced for everything, I see them being augmented.

    -Max
    I'm sure you're right, Max, but to some degree it depends on the individual. I operate a home based business and have for 15 years. I have a wired Ethernet with 7 workstations. All but the notebook are used for the business. Win 8 gave me a browser that won't print. I don't understand that. I need to print my orders every morning and they reside on my web server. Win 8 gave me a computing environment with no access to the file structure. The first time I tried to find an image I needed I was baffled. I stayed baffled until I installed the desktop start button.

    If the purpose of a PC is listening to music and looking at pictures, then Win 8 will handle the job just like a smart phone will. But as soon as you need to control your computer directly, it stands in the way. Win 8 doesn't even like my wired Ethernet. It thinks it is passť. What it is, however, is reliable. Changing the way one does computing is fine as long as it fills all the existing needs. Win 8 hasn't done that for me without my ignoring metro, installing the start button and going back to IE9.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #75


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    I'm sure you're right, Max, but to some degree it depends on the individual. I operate a home based business and have for 15 years. I have a wired Ethernet with 7 workstations. All but the notebook are used for the business. Win 8 gave me a browser that won't print. I don't understand that. I need to print my orders every morning and they reside on my web server. Win 8 gave me a computing environment with no access to the file structure. The first time I tried to find an image I needed I was baffled. I stayed baffled until I installed the desktop start button.
    What are you talking about? Of course the browser prints. Of course you have access to the file structure. Windows 8's desktop is virtually identical to Windows 7, including a browser and a file explorer. Where do you get this stuff?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #76


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Max Peck View Post
    There are certain tasks that you would never want to do on a tablet and some you don't need a desktop for.
    The mistake you're making is that you are assuming the tablet of tomorrow will be the same as the tablet of today (underpowered, limited use, difficult to use for extended typing).

    That is almost certainly not going to be true of tablets in the future. Tablets in the future will be just as powerful as todays desktops, just as capable, etc.. just in a smaller form factor. You plug it into a dock on your desktop and use your full size keyboard, mouse and monitor, and you won't know the difference between a "desktop" and a "tablet".

    It's not hard to imagine that you would have extra storage built into your dock, and that the CPU in the tablet will "switch" to full power mode and give you all the power of todays fastest processors. The only difference between a desktop and a Tablet will be that a desktop can't be disconnected and carried with you for mobile use.

    The concept of a "Desktop" will go away, even developers will use tablets, because there will be no difference in functionality, power, or ability. Why would you want a computer that you can't take with you, when it's just as powerful? What purpose would there be in that?

    Think of the Motorola Atrix, but far more advanced. That will be everyones PC.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #77


    Posts : 142
    Windows 8 Enterprise 64-bit (7 Ult, Vista & XP in V-Box)


    There's not a tablet on the market OR on the horizon that I'd take anywhere in preference
    to the AS5735 laptop, if it wasn't for the fact that the 5735 eats batteries for breakfast.

    So I'll be buying a cheapish tablet for just that reason (thinking 7" Samsung).
    But I can't see it replacing these lappies or the desktop in the foreseeable future.

    Most of my computing is not done 'on the move', and some of it needs serious horse-power
    so a tablet will be an adjunct to my current setup, not a replacement for it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #78


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    The mistake you're making is that you are assuming the tablet of tomorrow will be the same as the tablet of today (underpowered, limited use, difficult to use for extended typing).

    That is almost certainly not going to be true of tablets in the future. Tablets in the future will be just as powerful as todays desktops, just as capable, etc.. just in a smaller form factor. You plug it into a dock on your desktop and use your full size keyboard, mouse and monitor, and you won't know the difference between a "desktop" and a "tablet".

    It's not hard to imagine that you would have extra storage built into your dock, and that the CPU in the tablet will "switch" to full power mode and give you all the power of todays fastest processors. The only difference between a desktop and a Tablet will be that a desktop can't be disconnected and carried with you for mobile use.

    The concept of a "Desktop" will go away, even developers will use tablets, because there will be no difference in functionality, power, or ability. Why would you want a computer that you can't take with you, when it's just as powerful? What purpose would there be in that?

    Think of the Motorola Atrix, but far more advanced. That will be everyones PC.
    Could be. We'll just have to see how the landscape looks in another 5 or 10 years. Perhaps we'll get to the point where our entire computing platform is on our pocket device and we just plug it into the "dock" when we get home, or into a tablet with a dock for the device.

    -Max :-)
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #79


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    I only have to look at my own own behavior. After 5 days with Win 8, my PC now looks like a Win 7 PC. I have deleted all of the metro stuff because it doesn't improve my computing. It just causes me to lose productivity. I have installed a third party start button on my desktop. It isn't as good as the Win 7 button but it is better than having no access to the file structure.

    The concept, obviously, was to have a tablet OS that would run Windows programs. By definition that means compromise. It becomes an inferior tablet OS to Android (which I have on my phone) and an inferior PC OS to Windows 7. Compromises usually work out that way.

    I even understand those that do no want to give up XP. XP was the best Windows OS in my view because it provided more control over the computing environment than anything that followed. But I'm a computer literate power use and not typical of the folks for whom Vista was designed. For me Microsoft is moving further from what I want in a PC OS. We're debating features like metro rather than debating computing. On a basis of computing Win 8 is a step backward for me.
    If you don't have a specific need for the Metro full-screen, "immersive" experience (I.E. tablet interface) you really don't need to have Win8 on a desktop machine. In my particular case I installed it for two reasons.

    1) Several friends asked about it and I just wanted to see how well the final release would upgrade my development-oriented box.
    2) I'm studying the Metro API and having the actual code running on the box is handy.

    After having it for a week or so I can say that I'm generally pleased with the environment. I am, at least, in a position to observe the thing first-hand as it develops and, thankfully, it doesn't break anything important to me. So, my machine is for the most part still a Win7 box with extensions that stay out of the way if I don't want them. It's very functional, all my devices work and Microsoft has done a good job maintaining compatibility with the Win7 desktop, so what's the harm eh?

    I've also found that I don't miss what's been removed from the desktop. The Start Button? Good grief ... if you can't get around that by tapping the "Win" button or hovering to the LLH corner and clicking then you don't need to be using a computer. It just ain't that hard. I thought I'd miss the screen "gadgets" but surprisingly enough I don't. It's really not that big a deal. The desktop isn't nearly as ugly as I originally thought it would be: I just needed to see it in a live machine environment and toss my themes at it. It really is fine.

    To anyone that might ask, I just tell them that if they get a new box pre-loaded with Win8 to go ahead and go with it. If they already have a Win7 box they should stay put for now unless they're just curious or really do want the environment it provides.

    We have all (myself included) been making a really big deal out of this when in practice it's turning out (to me at least) not to be such a big deal. The thing works. It's time to go do something else.

    -Max
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #80


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Max Peck View Post
    Could be. We'll just have to see how the landscape looks in another 5 or 10 years. Perhaps we'll get to the point where our entire computing platform is on our pocket device and we just plug it into the "dock" when we get home, or into a tablet with a dock for the device.
    This market is changing FAST.

    Consider, the iPad was introduced in April 2010. That's right, only 2.5 years ago. Look how far things have changed since then.

    To be fair, Microsoft has tried the tablet route a dozen times over the last 25 years, but apple finally came up with a formula that worked, and everyone has been moving at light speed ever since.

    Consider the Surface Pro that will be out in the next few weeks. Here's the specs:
    Screen size and resolution: 10.6 inches, 1,920x1,080
    Dimensions (HWD): 10.81 x 6.81 x 0.53 inches
    Weight: 2 pounds
    CPU: Intel Core i5
    Memory: 4GB
    Storage capacity: 64GB (128GB option)
    Ports USB 3.0, microSDXC, headphone,
    DisplayPort video out

    That's a pretty impressive rig, even for a medium scale desktop. Add a little extra storage and a 27" monitor and it's as good as most desktops (hell, it's faster and more powerful than the desktop i'm on right now).

    We will have tablets, and fairly soon I would bet, that have CPU's that sip power when on battery, but blaze when on AC power. Same with GPU's and other features. And this is not 10 years off, this is maybe 2-3 years at most.

    Or how about this one? Kupa UltraNote Powerful Windows 8 PC Tablet Announced | Geeky Gadgets

    A Core i7 Ivy Bridge, 8GB of RAM, 128GB SSD (plus SD card storage + USB storage). That's almost as powerful as my top of the line rig, with a 7 hour battery life!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Is Windows 8 a failure ? Time to say bye, bye MSFT ?
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