Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Is Windows 8 a failure ? Time to say bye, bye MSFT ?

  1. #321


    Quote Originally Posted by LovingWindows View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
    Surely they will always fail. You maybe right, i don`t know, but i can`t get my head around components failing aand working perfectly in one OS, but not working in another.Surely components either work or they don`t? Otherwise, the overclock was executed wrong, or the os is not written properly? Has anyone else tried overclocking.I would try but my PC would overheat in minutes
    You people seem to forget that Windows 8 is just barely over a month old while Windows 7 is over 3 years old.

    As for OCing, I do overclock my GPU and have no issues with it under Windows 8. I've been using 8 since developer preview and I honestly have never gotten a single BSOD. To be even more honest, the last time I ever got a BSOD on Windows was during XP.
    I guess we need bham4ever to find out what overclocks he is using, as that will be important for me once i have finished my PC upgrade

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #322


    BELGIUM
    Posts : 503
    WINDOWS 8.1 x64


    Gavin,

    like others my pc is overclocked gently. Memory runs at 2133 mhz no overclocking here (although it is overclocked memory from the factory).

    the rest of the hardware has to follow here.

    I am on Windows 8 for 15 months now and never had problems with Win 8 (had problems due to my mistake not MS).

    So you should look at your hardware instead of (AGAIN) bashing MS.

    Jeff
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #323


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    [QUOTE=Gavin;157001]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Surely they will always fail. You maybe right, i don`t know, but i can`t get my head around components failing aand working perfectly in one OS, but not working in another.Surely components either work or they don`t? Otherwise, the overclock was executed wrong, or the os is not written properly? Has anyone else tried overclocking.I would try but my PC would overheat in minutes
    I know that seems logical, but it's not the case. It's not a black and white situation. When things fail, it's not a catastrophic work/not work situation. Sometimes failure can go completely unnoticed. Suppose you have a window in your house that leaks air. It might have leaked for years, but you never noticed because you never use that room, and when you are in there it's always mid-day and nice. But whenever someone stays in the room, they complain of the draft, but you can't seem to find it because everytime you are in there, everything seems ok.

    I'm trying to explain this to you in terms that relate to the real world so that you have some kind of frame of reference. Electronics are complex systems, but they must follow the laws of physics, even though sometimes things seem totally random.

    Let's try this a different way. Imagine you're lactose intolerant, but don't know it. You can eat tons of food and not have a problem, but every time you drink milk you get gastro distress. You keep blaming the milk for your problem though, even though the problem is that YOU are not creating the proper enzyme. You blame the milk though, because you can eat bread just fine.

    And Gavin, it doesn't matter what settings anyone else is using, because each and every computer overclocks differently. Unless you have identical hardware, his settings probably won't help you at all. Even if he has identical hardware, that's no guarantee either, as there are subtle differences in manufacturing of one component to the next, that can show up when overclocking.

    Simply put, Overclocking pushes your hardware to the edge. It runs beyond it's intended capabilities. The more you overclock, the more you increase your chances of instability.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #324


    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrys View Post
    Gavin,

    like others my pc is overclocked gently. Memory runs at 2133 mhz no overclocking here (although it is overclocked memory from the factory).

    the rest of the hardware has to follow here.

    I am on Windows 8 for 15 months now and never had problems with Win 8 (had problems due to my mistake not MS).

    So you should look at your hardware instead of (AGAIN) bashing MS.

    Jeff
    Why is it, if you question anything against windows 8, you are immedialtly bashing.It is like some fanatical religion to some people.I wasn`t bashing , just asking a simple question that i believe Mystere has given a reasonable explaination which i am happy with. Plus just running some factory overclocked memry doesnt really answer my question
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #325


    [QUOTE=Mystere;157008]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Surely they will always fail. You maybe right, i don`t know, but i can`t get my head around components failing aand working perfectly in one OS, but not working in another.Surely components either work or they don`t? Otherwise, the overclock was executed wrong, or the os is not written properly? Has anyone else tried overclocking.I would try but my PC would overheat in minutes
    I know that seems logical, but it's not the case. It's not a black and white situation. When things fail, it's not a catastrophic work/not work situation. Sometimes failure can go completely unnoticed. Suppose you have a window in your house that leaks air. It might have leaked for years, but you never noticed because you never use that room, and when you are in there it's always mid-day and nice. But whenever someone stays in the room, they complain of the draft, but you can't seem to find it because everytime you are in there, everything seems ok.

    I'm trying to explain this to you in terms that relate to the real world so that you have some kind of frame of reference. Electronics are complex systems, but they must follow the laws of physics, even though sometimes things seem totally random.

    Let's try this a different way. Imagine you're lactose intolerant, but don't know it. You can eat tons of food and not have a problem, but every time you drink milk you get gastro distress. You keep blaming the milk for your problem though, even though the problem is that YOU are not creating the proper enzyme. You blame the milk though, because you can eat bread just fine.

    And Gavin, it doesn't matter what settings anyone else is using, because each and every computer overclocks differently. Unless you have identical hardware, his settings probably won't help you at all. Even if he has identical hardware, that's no guarantee either, as there are subtle differences in manufacturing of one component to the next, that can show up when overclocking.

    Simply put, Overclocking pushes your hardware to the edge. It runs beyond it's intended capabilities. The more you overclock, the more you increase your chances of instability.
    Yes i understand that overclocking has lots of variables even when using exactly the same components as someone else.I just wanted to know if lots of people might be having trouble with an overclock.As i said maybe you are right, as your answer seems reasonable, just seems strange if you see what i mean
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #326


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
    Yes i understand that overclocking has lots of variables even when using exactly the same components as someone else.I just wanted to know if lots of people might be having trouble with an overclock.As i said maybe you are right, as your answer seems reasonable, just seems strange if you see what i mean
    It only seems strange because you don't understand how electronics work internally. It's this black box where magic happens.

    When you run equipment at the edge of failure, any subtle change can push it over the edge. That doesn't mean that change is bad, just that it alters state of things so it's no longer at the edge, but over it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #327


    Helena Al
    Posts : 29
    Windows 8 64bit Pro


    People can say it's one thing or another but I was overclocking this same computer in Windows 7 with "No Problems" I upgrading to Windows 8 and Many problems a lot of Blue screens with those error codes, until I stopped overclocking that's all I'm Saying..you be the judge.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #328


    DeLand, FL
    Posts : 380
    Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit


    The reason that overclocking a CPU causes seemingly "random" failures in different software is because overclocking a CPU changes the latency relationships between the components on the system board. Motherboard design requires understanding how much "settle time" is required for signals to assert themselves properly between the components.

    Whether or not overclocking is "safe" on a system depends on the quality of the components and whether or not they can respond to a shorter strobe cycle. Mystere has been trying to point out (in exhaustive length I might add) that there is no way that software can anticipate this and he's right, there isn't. The first problem you're going to run into if you're having latency issues is going to manifest itself at the lowest levels. Hardware drivers are going to be the first to "crash" as the result of corrupted memory values occuring on the system bus because the latency is not sufficient for the correct data to persist on the memory device being strobed.

    The effects of this problem (I.E. it "works on Win7 but not on Win8") are not going to be predictable. If there is any timing-dependent code in any of the device-interfacing code (drivers) the entire ball game is going to change when you overclock. If the driver in Win8 differs from the one in Win7 in its "exception" timing then Win8 might crash where Win7 won't. That's not a case of the software "knowing" the system is overclocked - it is collateral effect of changed hardware response due to the overclocking.

    That's why it's not a particularly good idea to overclock a processor. Buy a higher-rated system if you need more performance, or be prepared for unexpected results. Just increasing the clock speed of the processor (as I stated above) doesn't improve the performance of the rest of the machine.

    -Max :-)
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #329


    But , wouldn`t that depend on the CPU? FOr an example, Intel gives a processor a K prefix, which means they should be able to be overclocked . As long as the airflow, or watercooling is sufficient, then overclocking a CPU will give extra performance as long as the motherboard has the right voltage settings, with no need for overclocking anything else.
    Although i do appreciate Mystere`s, and your explainations about the software, and hardware glitches
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #330


    Helena Al
    Posts : 29
    Windows 8 64bit Pro


    What ever your point is..it worked with Windows 7 and not with windows 8 and that's my point..no explanation can change that.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Is Windows 8 a failure ? Time to say bye, bye MSFT ?
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