Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Is Windows 8 a failure ? Time to say bye, bye MSFT ?

  1. #311


    Quote Originally Posted by mart44 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by boyans View Post
    EightForums is the biggest forum for Windows 8.
    After 2 weeks of official Windows 8 launch to general public we see a decline in visits to the forum and the most visited Windows forum is still SevenForums.
    I haven't read this entire thread yet but if visits to the forum are declining, it could be because W.8 isn't so troublesome to use after all. Maybe there are a lot of people like me who install W.8, read around a bit, learn a few new things either from personal experience or what is written in forums and then just get on and use the computer. If everything works OK, there maybe isn't the need to come back to the forum?
    Hi mart44, welcome to the forums, that's an excellent point and agree with you as I have the same view as you are

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  2. #312


    Helena Al
    Posts : 29
    Windows 8 64bit Pro


    You can Window 8 Tree hug all you want Mystere, just stating a fact that Windows 8 doesn't like me overclocking and I have read the same thing with others having a problem getting the Blue Screen of death. And after i slowed it down they went away so there's a problem and it's not the hardware because it ran perfect under Windows 7. And all I can say is people aren't buying it..I wonder why? It was tailored toward the Tablet World and they made a big mistake thinging PC users would accept it for what it is.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #313


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by bham4ever View Post
    You can Window 8 Tree hug all you want Mystere, just stating a fact that Windows 8 doesn't like me overclocking and I have read the same thing with others having a problem getting the Blue Screen of death. And after i slowed it down they went away so there's a problem and it's not the hardware because it ran perfect under Windows 7. And all I can say is people aren't buying it..I wonder why? It was tailored toward the Tablet World and they made a big mistake thinging PC users would accept it for what it is.
    You don't seem to understand how a computer, or software works. It's *IMPOSSIBLE*, literally physically impossible for an OS (or any software) to "like" or "dislike" overclocking. The cpu just executes instructions, and the only way for overclocking to affect software is if the *HARDWARE* fails.

    Basically, you're trying to blame the paint on your car because the engine blows up from running it without any water coolant.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #314


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bham4ever View Post
    You can Window 8 Tree hug all you want Mystere, just stating a fact that Windows 8 doesn't like me overclocking and I have read the same thing with others having a problem getting the Blue Screen of death. And after i slowed it down they went away so there's a problem and it's not the hardware because it ran perfect under Windows 7. And all I can say is people aren't buying it..I wonder why? It was tailored toward the Tablet World and they made a big mistake thinging PC users would accept it for what it is.
    You don't seem to understand how a computer, or software works. It's *IMPOSSIBLE*, literally physically impossible for an OS (or any software) to "like" or "dislike" overclocking. The cpu just executes instructions, and the only way for overclocking to affect software is if the *HARDWARE* fails.

    Basically, you're trying to blame the paint on your car because the engine blows up from running it without any water coolant.
    How can the hardware be at fault if it works on windows 7.Why can`t it be the software? If the software wasn`t written properly to accept a common scenario, then isn`t that the programmers at fault? Or are we saying that you should not overclock if the software wasn`t written properly?
    That is like blaming the coolant for your paint peeling
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  5. #315


    Posts : 224
    .


    overclocking is a mystical beast, you can get 2 computers that run identical hardware and software and get different stability levels at different overclock levels.

    if it runs stable at stock then gradually overclock untill it falls over at peak settings, then step back from that and retest for stability again and again, what worked under one set of circumstances may not work under others.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #316


    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I'm saying that they're two unrelated things. A CPU executes code. Under normal conditions, this is a deterministic process. The CPU will always execute the same instructions the same way.

    The problem here is that overclocking causes components to fail, and when they fail, they become non-deterministic. This means they can randomly flip bits in memory, randomly execute a different instruction, etc...

    Think of a program executing the same way you would read a book. If two people read a book, and one of them is dyslexic, they will see two different things. Now, imagine the dyslexic person starts to blame the book for "not liking dyslexia". That's basically what you're saying here. A book can't make someone dyslexic, the same way code can't "not like overclocking". All the book can do is expose the dyslexia, much like code can expose a failing component.

    If the code executes normally when not overclocking, but doesn't when you overclock. The only possible explanation is that the overclocking is at fault, because nothing has changed with the software.

    As for why it works in Windows 7, it's impossible to say, but likely it's still failing.. just in a way that you may not notice (maybe memory that is not being used is failing, or the CPU is jumping to a place that executes valid code, or maybe the new code is using a feature of the CPU that 7 didn't, and that feature is failing while overclocking).

    I can't count how many times I've seen people make these kinds of arguments when a new OS comes out. They mistake cause and effect. They think that because something worked previously, it must be the new thing that's faulty. That may be the case, but more often then not the problem is something that was always wrong, but just happened to work in the old environment by luck.

    By way of example, when XP came out, people complained that XP was broken, because software they used to use worked fine in Windows 9x. In reality, those programs had bugs that simply did not manifest themselves in 9x (perhaps they assumed a piece of memory would always contain a specific value, even though that was not documented or they assumed that they did not have to initialize a data structure before they sent it to an API, even though the documentation said they had to.. after all, it seemed to work if they didn't initialize it).

    The point here is that computers are fickle, and sometimes broken things, for some strange reason, work even though they are broken. When something changes in the environment, the conditions that allowed the broken thing to work are no longer there, and it reverts back to broken behavior.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #317


    Quote Originally Posted by bham4ever View Post
    You can Window 8 Tree hug all you want Mystere, just stating a fact that Windows 8 doesn't like me overclocking and I have read the same thing with others having a problem getting the Blue Screen of death. And after i slowed it down they went away so there's a problem and it's not the hardware because it ran perfect under Windows 7. And all I can say is people aren't buying it..I wonder why? It was tailored toward the Tablet World and they made a big mistake thinging PC users would accept it for what it is.
    Hi bham4ever, your problem of OCing may be solved by setting Minimum Processor State to 100% in Processor Power Management in Advanced Power Options, I haven't tried it as I can not OC my CPU.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #318


    Quote Originally Posted by gazz9496 View Post
    overclocking is a mystical beast, you can get 2 computers that run identical hardware and software and get different stability levels at different overclock levels.

    if it runs stable at stock then gradually overclock untill it falls over at peak settings, then step back from that and retest for stability again and again, what worked under one set of circumstances may not work under others.
    That is true, but if you get an overclock of 10% on windows7, then surely that means you should get at least the same, with windows8 using exactly the same computer?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #319


    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    I'm saying that they're two unrelated things. A CPU executes code. Under normal conditions, this is a deterministic process. The CPU will always execute the same instructions the same way.

    The problem here is that overclocking causes components to fail, and when they fail, they become non-deterministic. This means they can randomly flip bits in memory, randomly execute a different instruction, etc...

    Think of a program executing the same way you would read a book. If two people read a book, and one of them is dyslexic, they will see two different things. Now, imagine the dyslexic person starts to blame the book for "not liking dyslexia". That's basically what you're saying here. A book can't make someone dyslexic, the same way code can't "not like overclocking". All the book can do is expose the dyslexia, much like code can expose a failing component.

    If the code executes normally when not overclocking, but doesn't when you overclock. The only possible explanation is that the overclocking is at fault, because nothing has changed with the software.

    As for why it works in Windows 7, it's impossible to say, but likely it's still failing.. just in a way that you may not notice (maybe memory that is not being used is failing, or the CPU is jumping to a place that executes valid code, or maybe the new code is using a feature of the CPU that 7 didn't, and that feature is failing while overclocking).

    I can't count how many times I've seen people make these kinds of arguments when a new OS comes out. They mistake cause and effect. They think that because something worked previously, it must be the new thing that's faulty. That may be the case, but more often then not the problem is something that was always wrong, but just happened to work in the old environment by luck.

    By way of example, when XP came out, people complained that XP was broken, because software they used to use worked fine in Windows 9x. In reality, those programs had bugs that simply did not manifest themselves in 9x (perhaps they assumed a piece of memory would always contain a specific value, even though that was not documented or they assumed that they did not have to initialize a data structure before they sent it to an API, even though the documentation said they had to.. after all, it seemed to work if they didn't initialize it).

    The point here is that computers are fickle, and sometimes broken things, for some strange reason, work even though they are broken. When something changes in the environment, the conditions that allowed the broken thing to work are no longer there, and it reverts back to broken behavior.
    Surely they will always fail. You maybe right, i don`t know, but i can`t get my head around components failing aand working perfectly in one OS, but not working in another.Surely components either work or they don`t? Otherwise, the overclock was executed wrong, or the os is not written properly? Has anyone else tried overclocking.I would try but my PC would overheat in minutes
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #320


    Posts : 419
    Windows 8.1 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
    Surely they will always fail. You maybe right, i don`t know, but i can`t get my head around components failing aand working perfectly in one OS, but not working in another.Surely components either work or they don`t? Otherwise, the overclock was executed wrong, or the os is not written properly? Has anyone else tried overclocking.I would try but my PC would overheat in minutes
    You people seem to forget that Windows 8 is just barely over a month old while Windows 7 is over 3 years old.

    As for OCing, I do overclock my GPU and have no issues with it under Windows 8. I've been using 8 since developer preview and I honestly have never gotten a single BSOD. To be even more honest, the last time I ever got a BSOD on Windows was during XP.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Is Windows 8 a failure ? Time to say bye, bye MSFT ?
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