Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Samsung EVO 850 crash...

  1. #1

    Samsung EVO 850 crash...


    I have a Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB drive for the OS, with Magician software installed, for about two month. The software reports drive health status as good, total bytes written is 0.62 TB.

    As of late, it has started to crash hard. The system reboots after the crash, runs for awhile and rinse and repeat. Sometimes runs for days without crashing.

    The log entries for these events are non-descriptive:
    The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly.
    There's no memory dump, enabled, since this is a hard crash.

    This system dual boots with Windows 7 (Intel SSD), via F12 in the BIOS. In another words, Windows is not used for dual booting. W7 started to have the same issue, hard crash without memory dump. Removing the Samsung SSD seemingly stabilized W7.

    Tested the memory, came up clean, nor did it have any issues in W7. Uninstalling/reinstalling Magician software didn't make a difference in the periodic hard crash in W8.1. Shrinking W8.1 "C" partition to 250 GBs seems to resolved the issue, at least for the last couple of hours.

    Anyone has an idea how to test SSD drive faults?

    The temperature, voltage, etc., of the system seem OK, I don't believe that it could be the source of this issue:

    Click image for larger version

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    Cross Plains
    Posts : 255
    Windows 10 Pro


    I'm wondering if it isn't an issue with having two different installations of Windows in the same system without using an actual boot loader. The installations aren't aware of each other and one is intermittently writing to the other partition/drive and causing issues.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Quote Originally Posted by ArazelEternal View Post
    I'm wondering if it isn't an issue with having two different installations of Windows in the same system without using an actual boot loader. The installations aren't aware of each other and one is intermittently writing to the other partition/drive and causing issues.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Anything is possible at this point. I'll disconnect the W7 drive to see, if that fixes this issue.

    The system has been running just fine for the last two-three years like this. The W8.1's initial Samsung 256GB Pro SSD had been replaced with the 1 TB SSD about two month ego, the OS restored via Macrium.

    Called support and to my surprised I was talking to a tech in less than two minutes. He suggested to do a secure erase that resets the drive to factory settings, among wiping the data. If that didn't fix it, just send the drive in for further testing. The turnaround time is five days, according to him. I just don't feel comfortable to send in the drive with my business data on it and will probably just install new Windows, if it comes to that.

    And wouldn't you know, Windows 8.1 has been running for the last five hours without issues...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    A few years ago with my first Samsung SSD based system - that was with W7, I had a bunch of problems (system crashing, system failing to go to sleep, system failing to wake from sleep and more). I finally traced it down Samsung Magician. I uninstalled SM and all my problems went away. I reinstalled SM and the problems returned. So I removed it again and problems went away.

    Bottom line, you don't need Samsung Magician. A drive is a drive and Windows knows how to talk to drives just fine. And W8 and W10 know how to manage SSDs just fine too.

    This current system runs with two Samsung SSDs (850 Pro and 850 Evo) and no Samsung Magician. I have now decided Samsung Magician is just bloated fluff that wastes system resources.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    In my case, doing a secure erase and restoring the Macrium Reflect image seemingly resolved the issue. That's probably what the support would've done, if the drive sent in for repair. The system runs just fine without a single crash for over a day now.

    Samsung Magician is great for getting the serial number and firmware version for the drive. Other than that, it's pretty much a "gimmick" software with little or no impact to actual performance. The synthetic benchmark numbers do look impressive, but they do not translate in to substantial performance increase.

    With that said, my system pretty much behaves the same way with or without Magician installed. The sleep/hibernation features are disabled since Reflect is scheduled to take a daily image backup and shut the PC down. The backup drive is shutdown in the morning and only turned on at night.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    What do you mean by "secure" erase. If you mean you used a "wipe" program, that is not necessary with SSDs as they don't retain "residual" data as "magnetic" disk drives do. With early generation SSDs, running a wipe program is actually detrimental to the drive because of their limited write capabilities. With current generation SSDs, those limits are so high, it is not an issue - except maybe in some file servers or data centers.

    I agree that Samsung Magician is "gimmicky" when used with modern versions of Windows. But it can be a useful utility for older operating systems (pre W7) that are not SSD aware.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    I have both an EVO 840 and 850. The 840 is for Win 7 and the 850 is for Win 10. I do not do any system tweaking with the Magician. I had my system tweaked for what I wanted as I use it for my recording studio. I tried the Magician tweaks and it screwed up things. I had to manually do my own tweaks again. Checking firmware or updating firmware is about as much as I now do with the Magician.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8


    Quote Originally Posted by Itaregid View Post
    What do you mean by "secure" erase. If you mean you used a "wipe" program, that is not necessary with SSDs as they don't retain "residual" data as "magnetic" disk drives do. With early generation SSDs, running a wipe program is actually detrimental to the drive because of their limited write capabilities. With current generation SSDs, those limits are so high, it is not an issue - except maybe in some file servers or data centers.
    It's in the ATA (a.k.a. IDE) standards:
    Secure Erase (SE). Secure erase is a positive easy-to-use data destroy command, amounting to “electronic data shredding.”
    In case of the Full Disk Encryption (FDE) supported SSDs or FDDs, such as the Samsung EVO, the secure erase is done by changing the internal encryption key. When the internal encryption key changed, it effectively renders the data encrypted with the previous encryption key unreadable as plain text. In addition, the secure erase also changes the NAND flash state to "1" to indicate no data and restores original performance. The process is fast, in most cases takes less than a minute.

    While it worked in my issue, I am not certain exactly why, but glad it did...

    Most people are not aware that the FDE drives store data encrypted since the encryption takes place internally on the drive. In another word, when you buy a new drive nowadays, the chances are that it supports FDE and the data is encrypted that includes the OS. This in itself isn't secure, by default there's no control of who has access to the encryption key. That functionality resides with the BIOS/EUFI by setting drive password, or alternatively a third-party solution. The latter one pretty much relies on the BIOS/EUFI capabilities and in addition, provides a user friendly interface and in some cases, capable to ingrate with domain authentication.

    In corporate environment having FDE drives is great, even if it is not used for controlling access to the encryption key. Sanitizing an FDE drive takes less than a minute, as oppose to any other means that can take much longer. The time it takes does not matter much for one drive, regardless of its size. The time does become a factor when a SAN is decommissioned and the drives need to be sanitized. Centrally managing the encryption keys for the SAN does make the sanitizing a breeze. On the flip side, a careless/rogue employee can render the production system broken. You just can't win...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9


    Okay, as long as everyone understand FDE is not enabled by default.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10


    Quote Originally Posted by Itaregid View Post
    Okay, as long as everyone understand FDE is not enabled by default.
    That is incorrect and everyone should understand, this is hardware based encryption and no action required from the end user...

    Drives that support FDE by default are encrypted via AES 256-bit hardware encryption, based on the TCG Opal 2.0 specification. The hardware based encryption secures data without any performance degradation, that includes the OS. The default access to the encryption key is for "Everyone", meaning anyone can access the data on the drive with FDE support.

    The FDE can easily integrate into Windows with Microsoft e-drive IEEE1667 to keep your data protected at all times. Or so they say... The integration controls access to the encryption key by providing an authentication method via PIN/password. Bitlocker is actually aware of FDE drive and does encrypt via the software. Bitlocker turns in to managing the access to the hardware based encryption key...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Samsung EVO 850 crash...
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