Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Event 7 Bad block in HDD but normal SMART?

  1. #21


    Why can't you do yourself a favor then and find a legitimate source to support your claims? Instead, you link to more forum posts!!! And forum posts, BTW, that don't even back your claims!!!

    Note your first link, a forum post, refers to the OP using HDTune. A HD diagnostic program, not a wipe program like DBAN.

    Your second link, another forum post, is answered by suggesting diagnostic tools. And the other responder suggests, as I noted before, a "full" format to identify and "map" out any bad sectors.

    A full format is since Windows Vista consideredas zero-writing
    Now hold on there! I've been saying full format all along. Not you! Why are you suddenly suggesting a "full" format was your suggestion?


    I'm curious about your sources that explicitly say that zero-writing does NOT mark bad sectors
    Now you are asking me to prove unicorns and bigfoot don't exist. How many products are you aware of that list what they can't do?

    I used the command prompt "Clean All" to zero-write the HDD. What I'm stating here is the description of what zero-writing in general does.
    You really should do your homework a bit better.

    Here is the "official" Microsoft TechNet description of the DiskPart Command-Line Options. Note for Clean and Clean [all] it says,
    Removes any and all partition or volume formatting from the disk with focus. On master boot record (MBR) disks, only the MBR partitioning information and hidden sector information are overwritten. On GUID partition table (GPT) disks, the GPT partitioning information, including the Protective MBR, is overwritten; there is no hidden sector information.

    all

    Specifies that each and every sector on the disk is zeroed, which completely deletes all data contained on the disk.
    Note there is nothing there that says it looks for, diagnoses, and marks as bad any bad sectors it encounters. It merely writes zeros to those locations.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #22


    Posts : 191
    Windows 8.1 (Update 1) Pro 64 bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Itaregid View Post
    Why can't you do yourself a favor then and find a legitimate source to support your claims? Instead, you link to more forum posts!!! And forum posts, BTW, that don't even back your claims!!!
    It's funny how you're practically refusing to accept ANY statement, even from official Microsoft Community Moderators. What makes your own suggestion that zero-writing does not mark bad sectors stronger compared to them? I'd at least expect that MVP's HAVE done their homework correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itaregid View Post
    Note your first link, a forum post, refers to the OP using HDTune. A HD diagnostic program, not a wipe program like DBAN.
    If you read carefully, you'd see that he had ZERO FILLED the HDD and as a consequence, he didn't see any Current Pending Sectors or bad sectors afterwards. Again, I'm talking here about what zero-writing does, NEXT to wiping the HDD. If you read further down, you'd see users again saying that it's because zero-writing the HDD reallocates data from the bad sectors which explains the OP's experience. But ofcourse, you'd reject those as well won't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Itaregid View Post
    Now hold on there! I've been saying full format all along. Not you! Why are you suddenly suggesting a "full" format was your suggestion?
    I never said that a full format is my suggestion. I merely wanted to show that zero-writing identifies bad sectors and because a Moderator described this behavior as a "full format" I showed you an official KB article stating that a full format is the same as a zero-write.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itaregid View Post
    Now you are asking me to prove unicorns and bigfoot don't exist. How many products are you aware of that list what they can't do?
    And you're basically asking me to do the same thing. The primary and general intention of zero-writing is to clean the HDD and remove all data, not to reallocate bad sectors. If it's not stated, it doesn't mean that it doesn't do so either. I never said that it doesn't clean the HDD.

    Please read your statements better. Your official Microsoft Technet description doesn't deny what all the rest and me are stating about zero-writing. It mentions the general consequence of zero-writing, that it completely deletes all data. Again, I never denied that.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #23


    It's funny how you're practically refusing to accept ANY statement, even from official Microsoft Community Moderators.
    Now you are just making stuff up.

    Not cool! NO WHERE did any moderator say zero writing marks sectors as bad! Why are you pretending they did? Your own links said what I have been saying all along - that diagnostic utilities and full formats will diagnose and mark bad sectors.
    I showed you an official KB article stating that a full format is the same as a zero-write.
    No you didn't. This is really sad. You are just making stuff up again! Zero-write is NOTHING like a full format. I bet you think you cannot recover deleted data after a full format too! And that would be wrong. Format prepares sectors for saving data using the selected "file system" - typically NTFS.
    Please read your statements better. Your official Microsoft Technet description doesn't deny what all the rest and me are stating about zero-writing
    Doesn't deny??? OMG! It does not deny the sky is red and pigs fly either. Are you seriously going to try to tell us "TechNet", Micrsoft's repository of technical documents for developers and system administrators is going to leave out such a significant feature in its description of the DiskPart command? Yeah right.

    You and the rest of your forum posters who have not posted one shred of corroborating evidence. Not one of the responders in any of your links says anything about zero-writing marking sectors as bad. So until you can show us ANYTHING official, please stop wasting our time, and yours.

    And BTW, it is also clear you have no clue what a forum moderator is. Moderators are NOT authorities on the topics they write about. Moderators hold very important positions but their purpose is to "moderate" discussions - that is, to delete duplicate threads, split topics, move threads to the correct forums and most importantly, keep the peace.

    I am done here.
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  4. #24


    Posts : 191
    Windows 8.1 (Update 1) Pro 64 bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Itaregid View Post
    Not cool! NO WHERE did any moderator say zero writing marks sectors as bad! Why are you pretending they did? Your own links said what I have been saying all along - that diagnostic utilities and full formats will diagnose and mark bad sectors.
    Wow, this is hilarious. Clearly you're not paying any attention. I'm not making any stuff up, it's just you who's not reading carefully.

    According to the KB article https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/941961 : "By default in Windows Vista and later versions, the format command writes zeros to the whole disk when a full format is performed"

    Do I really have to quote every single quotation that I linked to? They ALL say that a zero-write recognizes bad sectors and hides them and reallocates any newly written data, I don't get how you're able to miss them.

    You keep saying that all I'm showing are users blabbing out misleading info while at the same time the only thing you're saying is that zero-writing is deleting and wiping data from the HDD, which I DIDN'T deny. Comparing it to a red sky and flying pigs is blowing it way out of proportion. Assuming me thinking I can't recover deleted data after a full format is as pathetic as your analogies here and reading abilities.

    Try and explain the quote of the KB article right there, along with the numerous users, some of which are expertises, along with the fact that after I zero-written my HDD as several other users did, made the count of Current Pending Sectors to 0 and chkdsk not finding any bad sectors anymore. Try explaining those with how zero-writing a HDD is not marking/hiding bad sectors and reallocating newly written data.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #25


    According to the KB article https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/941961 : "By default in Windows Vista and later versions, the format command writes zeros to the whole disk when a full format is performed"
    Come on dude! That is NOT the same thing as marking bad sectors bad and that is the whole point of this discussion. So yes, you are making stuff up - just as you did with DiskPart. So discussing this further is pointless.
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  6. #26


    Posts : 191
    Windows 8.1 (Update 1) Pro 64 bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Itaregid View Post
    According to the KB article https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/941961 : "By default in Windows Vista and later versions, the format command writes zeros to the whole disk when a full format is performed"
    Come on dude! That is NOT the same thing as marking bad sectors bad and that is the whole point of this discussion. So yes, you are making stuff up - just as you did with DiskPart. So discussing this further is pointless.
    This is unbelievable. The reason I stated this is because an MVP Moderator said that a full format marks bad sectors and I showed you with the KB article that it states "writes zeros to the whole disk when a full format is performed" such that zero-writing does the same thing. Since you're saying that a full format does mark bad sectors, according to the KB article, zero-writing does as well. At the same time multiple users that I linked you to are backing that up, some of which are expertises. And yet, you keep on denying that.

    Furthermore, you didn't explain my last paragraph. Discussion is indeed pointless if you keep on evading that.
    Last edited by JohnnyGui; 05 May 2016 at 17:32.
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  7. #27


    Austin TX metro area
    Posts : 638
    Windows 7 Pro 64bit [MS blue-disk set]


    hddguru forums just might provide the arbitration to resolve the present empasse, and it might not. It's worth a search and read.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #28


    There's nothing to arbitrate. The claim was zero writing marks bad sectors as bad. That is not true. It is not an opinion, it is just a fact. And apparently, a fairly common misunderstood fact.

    When asked for a link to a zero writing program to supports this claim, the OP couldn't provide any because no zero writing program makes that claim. That includes the excellent "wipe" program you suggested, DBAN. It also includes Erasure, an excellent Windows based "wipe" utility that uses common code with DBAN. And CCleaner's Drive Wiper - another excellent zero write or "wipe" program. None of these programs re-map and mark bad sectors as bad.

    So the claim was changed to say DiskPart's Clean All command was used to mark bad sectors as bad. But we know that is not true through the official DiskPart documentation that shows that also is not true. In fact, it even specifies that hidden sector information is overwritten! And FTR, none of the DiskPart commands re-map and mark bad sectors as bad.

    So the claim was changed again to suggest a full format and zero writing were the same thing. Also not true. Note with Windows 10, for example, if you open a command prompt and enter format /? you will see the available options. Note the /P switch. That indicates IF you include the /P switch, then and only then will it zero every sector. This is not enabled by default. If it were, it would be so designated, as it is with the /S and /I switches.

    The issue is the OP repeatedly claimed, "By zero-writing it, the HDD will mark them as bad sectors". That is simply false. And when the OP was unable to show where any zero-write program claimed to analyze sectors and mark bad those found as bad, there was an attempt to obfuscate the issue by asking to show where programs claim they don't mark sectors as bad. How silly can you get? Products don't normally advertise their shortcomings! But note DBAN did - but re-mapping bad sectors is not one of them!

    As for HDDGuru, again, no arbitration is needed because this is not an opinion based discussion. If you note their own zero-writing program, Wipe My Disks, it says what it does, it erases all partitions and files systems. That's it! It makes no claims to marking bad sectors as bad. To analyze sectors for integrity, HDDGuru offers HDD LLF, their Low Level Format tool, or HDDScan.

    Bottom line is this: zero writing and bad sector mapping are two different functions. One does NOT imply the other. These are not opinions that need arbitration. These are just technical facts.


    @Roland - If you feel arbitration is needed, then I trust and choose you. I ask that you either (1) show us where the developers of zero-writing routines report their program scans and re-maps bad sectors, or (2) you report there is no supporting evidence to indicate zero-writing does anything but overwrite previously saved data on the disk to make it irretrievable.
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  9. #29


    Posts : 191
    Windows 8.1 (Update 1) Pro 64 bit


    Quote Originally Posted by Itaregid View Post
    So the claim was changed to say DiskPart's Clean All command was used to mark bad sectors as bad. But we know that is not true through the official DiskPart documentation that shows that also is not true. In fact, it even specifies that hidden sector information is overwritten! And FTR, none of the DiskPart commands re-map and mark bad sectors as bad.
    There you go again, giving documentation which doesn't say anything about bad sectors and yet when I show you dozens of posts about ppl saying that zero-writing remaps bad sectors and having experienced this you still say that they didn't say that at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Itaregid View Post
    The issue is the OP repeatedly claimed, "By zero-writing it, the HDD will mark them as bad sectors". That is simply false. And when the OP was unable to show where any zero-write program claimed to analyze sectors and mark bad those found as bad, there was an attempt to obfuscate the issue by asking to show where programs claim they don't mark sectors as bad. How silly can you get? Products don't normally advertise their shortcomings! But note DBAN did - but re-mapping bad sectors is not one of them!
    And products also normally only advertise their primary purpose and what their products do generally! They wipe the HDD and zero-writes it as they describe, that I did NOT deny. There was no attempt at all to obfuscate the issue since I provided you with several links AND also the experience of SEVERAL users, including me, who saw their Current Pending Sectors drop down to 0 and their Reallocated Sectors increase right after a zero-write, AND chkdsk not finding any bad sectors as before. You still haven't explained that, like I asked.

    Here's the thing. From what I read, bad sectors can be "fixed" (i.e. get remapped) by 2 ways; either the HDD can read the data on the bad sector with Error correction and then remap the data to another spare sector, OR when you want to overwrite that bad sector, the HDD will "understand" that the data already on that HDD is not relevant and will then remap the new data that you want to overwrite the old one with. The latter is usually the case when there are Pending sectors. Pending sectors mean the HDD is not able to read the data on the bad sector and is waiting (hence "pending") for the user to overwrite that sector so that the HDD will see the existing data as irrelevant and remap your new data that you want to overwrite the old data with.
    Now, a zero-write means that it writes every sector with zero's obviously, so by overwriting sectors the HDD will thus notice bad sectors, see the data in them as irrelevant since you want to overwrite it with zero's and then remap that bad sector. As a result, the bad sectors and the Pending Sector Count drops to 0, Reallocation Sectors increases, and chkdsk doesn't find any bad sectors after a zero-write. This is what I and several users have experienced and several people, including exepertises, explain this by how I zero-writes work. Until now, you still haven't explained this.
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  10. #30


    Austin TX metro area
    Posts : 638
    Windows 7 Pro 64bit [MS blue-disk set]


    If I remember hddguru forum posters correctly, marking bad sectors and attempting to relocate data into known good sectors is a hard-drive controller function, not a softwre function. I think even Spinrite simply "hands off" that task to the hard-drive controller. I might be remembering this wrong -- so please let me know the hddguru thread[s] that give the truth of the matter.
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Event 7 Bad block in HDD but normal SMART?
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