Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


I am an SSD Convert -- How can you manage WITHOUT one !!!

  1. #41


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Quote Originally Posted by poppa bear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    Vince, you can do that. Just disconnect the other drive whilst you install Win8 on the SSD. Then change the bootsequence with the BIOS. That is the preferred method. Double booting win7 and Win8 is a dog because of the incompatibility of the Win8 EFI BCD and the Win7 NTFS BCD. I had tried that first but scrapped it.
    I got a bit carried away in commenting on some of your posts in one of the other threads, for which I apologize.

    That's exactly the same experience I had. I first installed Win8 on a 2nd standard 1TB SATA West Digital with my SSD still connected with Win7 on it. It created a dual boot, but stored the boot data in the SDD HD. Win8 honked up my whole system with BSODs, so unconditionally formatted the WD HD and unplugged it. Restored Win7 from an Acronis image, but the boot menu options still came up on boot up. I used EasyBCD to remove the Win8 option, but it still came up even though it went nowhere.

    Had to format the SSD to get rid of it, as I only know limited commands in BCD, which was no real drama, as the Acronis image which contained Win7 fully loaded was back up and running within 7 minutes. Next time round I unplugged the SSD before loading Win8, (a later version ... the original came in developer version from a DVD in a PC magazine), and this created unrelated boot menus, which, as you say are controlled via BIOS.
    That's OK. No hard feelings. We all get carried away at times.

    Next time you have to clean up a double boot, you might want to have a look at my tutorial: Dual Boot - Delete a OS - Windows 7 Forums

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  2. #42


    Perth West Australia
    Posts : 128
    1st PC: Win7 Ultimate 64bit Retail. 2nd PC: Vista Ulimtate 32bit OEM


    [QUOTE=whs;84602]
    Quote Originally Posted by poppa bear View Post
    That's OK. No hard feelings. We all get carried away at times.

    Next time you have to clean up a double boot, you might want to have a look at my tutorial: Dual Boot - Delete a OS - Windows 7 Forums
    Thanks whs for being so gracious about my apology for my insults. That's a great tutorial. I made the exact mistake you spoke of, by stopping at step 3 when I removed the boot entry for Win8 using EasyBCD, but didn't reconfigure the BCD for Win7. Too late she cried, because as you pointed out in your tutorial, I now couldn't get back into Win7!

    From previous work with multiple OSs on the main HD I was aware of the need to remove a partition rather than just format it to get rid of all boot info on that partition, so having unplugged the ITB WD HD I assumed the boot data was in the 100MB space set aside on the SSD HD with Win7 on it. So I tried a work around by running the Win7 installation disc and using the advanced options for the boot manager at the beginning to clean the 100MB space by creating a partition on it and then deleting it. I then tried the boot repair option at the beginning of the installation disc to try and recover the boot but it didn't work.

    I also ran the Acronis recovery disc on which I'd saved the original boot data for Win7, replacing only the boot data, but that didn't work either. So finally I just formatted the entire SSD HD, (quick format, not unconditional which I normally use), reloaded the Acronis image of Win7 with boot data and it worked fine. It only took 7 minutes on SSD to reload the acronis image of Win7 with all my programs installed, and another 10 to put all my music, videos, etc back into the OS from an external USB3 HD.

    I've always been interested in multiple OS on a single HD, and on separate HDs. Back in the days when XP was king, I would frequently reload the OS while experimenting, and got really annoyed at having to constantly re-activate XP. I was using Norton Ghost for restoring partition images but it was slow and cumbersome. And when SATA came in it no longer worked. So I moved to NTI backup, but that stopped working at Vista, so ended up with Acronis, which I believe is brilliant, except by default every partition image is set to progressively continuosly update via cloud storage. So all your new mistakes get copied into your ghost image. So you have to turn this off.

    Anyway, I complained to Microsoft Aust re having to constantly re-activate XP. And I was quite amazed when they offered me a free retail copy of XP Pro with SP2 installed in return for my XP Home upgrade. They also gave me two free $50 half hour sessions with a MS Techo. At the time I was doing deliberate corruption of the boot data with Win98 and XP loaded, to find out how to repair it in a similar real life scenario. After endless hours of playing around with boot repairs to NTLDR via the XP repair option off the installation disc at boot up, and typing diskpart at the prompt, I spent one of my $50 sessions with the MS techo, who also couldn't fix it using boot repair commands. He told me the only way was to run the XP disc as if doing a new installation, and then run the option to repair existing installation. Eventually though I found a post in a tech forum which did enable the boot to be repaired using XP installation R option on boot.

    The MS techo also told me you could not load XP first, that you had to load Win98. But I found a work around to that, by creating 2 primary partitions on the HD, and loading XP onto the second; then running 3rd party BootMagic to create a boot menu. Next, I divided the first partition into two primary partitions with Partition Magic, so the XP boot data was preserved in the new middle partition, otherwise it was lost if you just loaded XP into the first partition. Finally I formatted the first of the two new partitions in FAT32 and loaded Win98 onto it. This deleted the boot to XP from the normal Windows boot, but I already had BootMagic in place and simply added Win98 to this boot. I could now successfully run both OS from BootMagic having loaded XP first. It didn't really prove much, but it was just an itch I had to scratch. When I told MS they didn't really want to know, but simply said "I was dangerous!" Still not quite sure what they meant by that?

    With Vista I started working at using the various commands to manipulate the BCD, but found it very confusing and time consuming compared to XP. By this time I was now running XP & Vista on the same HD, and got as far as being able to use the command prompt to rename the Vista & legacy XP boot entries, but gave up on storing, deleting and restoring boot entries as I suddenly found EasyBCD.

    I must say that was a stroke of genius on your part to work out to re-configure the BCD as in steps 4 & 5 of your tutorial. If ony I'd known! Would have saved me a lot of hard work. Still it's stored in the brain memory partition for future use, assuming of course the OS is still working there! And with all the spelling mistakes I'm making am beginning to wonder if it's not corrupted! lol!

    Cheers PB
    Last edited by poppa bear; 15 Apr 2012 at 09:06.
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  3. #43


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Well, it is never too late to learn new tricks. I am actually not a fan of double booting. Especially not with Windows8 because there seems to be some incompatibility between the Win7 NTFS bootmgr and the Win8 EFI bootmgr. I install my second systems seperately by disconnecting all other disks. Then I switch them with the BIOS.

    The other option I use is Virtual Box where I put Win8 on this system. That is the ultimate in speed and convenience. But Win8 I also put on a USB3 attached external disk and on a USB3 stick. That is interesting and works very well. But the setup is a completely different process. That external disk or stick I can carry from system to system and it works on any system that has a USB3 port. I have also tried it on a USB2 stick, but that is painfully slow.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #44


    Posts : 740
    Windows 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    Well, it is never too late to learn new tricks. I am actually not a fan of double booting. Especially not with Windows8 because there seems to be some incompatibility between the Win7 NTFS bootmgr and the Win8 EFI bootmgr. I install my second systems seperately by disconnecting all other disks. Then I switch them with the BIOS.

    The other option I use is Virtual Box where I put Win8 on this system. That is the ultimate in speed and convenience. But Win8 I also put on a USB3 attached external disk and on a USB3 stick. That is interesting and works very well. But the setup is a completely different process. That external disk or stick I can carry from system to system and it works on any system that has a USB3 port. I have also tried it on a USB2 stick, but that is painfully slow.
    I'm not entirely sure how I did it, but I have My Windows 7 disk booting from MBR/BCD and my Windows 8 disk booting from UEFI/GPT. My MB's firmware won't let me choose from my different disks in the boot menu (only by changing the boot order), but I can choose my Corsair disk to boot Win7 and the "Windows Boot Loader" to boot Win8
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #45


    Perth West Australia
    Posts : 128
    1st PC: Win7 Ultimate 64bit Retail. 2nd PC: Vista Ulimtate 32bit OEM


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    Well, it is never too late to learn new tricks. I am actually not a fan of double booting. Especially not with Windows8 because there seems to be some incompatibility between the Win7 NTFS bootmgr and the Win8 EFI bootmgr. I install my second systems seperately by disconnecting all other disks. Then I switch them with the BIOS.

    The other option I use is Virtual Box where I put Win8 on this system. That is the ultimate in speed and convenience. But Win8 I also put on a USB3 attached external disk and on a USB3 stick. That is interesting and works very well. But the setup is a completely different process. That external disk or stick I can carry from system to system and it works on any system that has a USB3 port. I have also tried it on a USB2 stick, but that is painfully slow.
    Thanks for the input whs. That's interesting having Win8 on a USB flash drive. I'm a bit pushed for time right now but will give it a go as soon as things free up a bit. Would it be much different to load it onto a USB3 external HD?

    Ditto re Win8 upsetting the Win7 BCD data when both are on dual boot. That's when the BSODs happened. And I know it's not the two systems themselves conflicting, because when they're on indepedent boot, I don't get any problems running either system or transferring data from one system to the other by simple drag/drop.

    Normally I only have the Win7 hard drive plugged in. To run Win8 I simply drop the hard drive into the eSATA caddy on top of my tower. On boot up the BIOS auto sets the boot order for Win8 to boot first. Then if I unplug the eSATA HD it's back to Win7 boot. The other way is to just leave them both plugged in and reset the BIOS, but easier to just unplug the eSATA. Pretty much the same as a USB stick, but not all towers have an eSATA caddy to just drop the HD in.

    If you ever feel like having fun and games try putting XP, Vista and Win7 on one hard drive with i7-960 CPU and DX58SO2 extreme mobo. Only way I could get XP to load was to slipstream SP3 and SATA drivers into XP. And don't even think about editing the boot data if things go wrong. You're mixing NTLDR with BCD. And which OS do you run EasyBCD from? I did some experiments but gave up fairly quickly. However, I did manage to finally be able to restore every system with Acronis, although I had to run repair boot with Vista and Win7 after restoration to get boot back. And if that failed, reload a bare bones installation of Vista or Win7 to get boot back, then reload Acronis over it. Like I said, all good fun, and like you say, never too old to learn.

    Hell it's just after 3 am here in Perth West Aussie so time to hit the sack. Thank god I'm retired already! OMG I'm starting to get forum fever again! Wonder if you can get anti-forum shots like anti-flu shots! lol! Cheers PB
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #46


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Would it be much different to load it onto a USB3 external HD?
    Look at the tut section B. I also describes how to install independently on a HDD. And since you have an eSata caddy, use that. Beats USB3. You can then still attach to another PC with USB3.

    I will not touch XP. That is too old.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #47


    Posts : 1,308
    Windows 8 enterprise x64


    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post

    I will not touch XP. That is too old.

    +1, Battlefield 3 don't even run on XP.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #48


    Sorry, Guys, but XP served me well and still does. I have my legal copy of 32-bit XP on my 64-bit computer, and it plays some older games that 7 & 8 can't play.

    And don't forget my most famous quote: "If you think MS is having a hard time killing off XP, wait until they try to kill of Windows 7."
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #49


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7


    Hmm, maybe for vintage gamers it has some use. But for the rest it is an awful system. Too bad so many people got hooked to it and are now stuck because of their programs.

    I have no use for any vintage stuff and do not play games anyhow (waste of time). So I am always free to move to the latest OS.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #50


    Posts : 1,308
    Windows 8 enterprise x64


    I have my CadRail software that refuse to install on Windows 7, the company want I upgrade to the new version and make me pay for it. It's just their install the problem. So I use XP in VM just for it. All true they lower their upgrade to $ 40, I may upgrade.

    Cadrail is a software to make track plan for model train.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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