Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Surface Pro is priced aggressively

  1. #11


    Posts : 5
    Windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    I already have a laptop and desktop which provide me with the power user experience that I want.

    I'm not dying for a more powerful tablet with this much functionality, I do simple things with my phone and tablet..so I would rather have long battery life and lower cost.

    I think for a 10 screen, this is too much resolution.

    People don't seem to love Windows 8, not sure a tablet will really sell them on it. People dislike their Windows desktops due to blue screens, viruses, malware, etc. They might not want a tablet which is susceptible to these same issues.

    I know a crap ton of people who want a tablet device for Christmas. Some are getting a nexus 10, others an iPad or iPad mini, some a kindle fire HD, or a nook. But being 100% honest, I don't know of a single person holding out for, or asking for a surface pro. Not 1 single person.

    It may be the far better product, just as Betamax was better than VHS, but if nobody wants it, out perceives it to be a bad value...it won't really matter.
    Just because you don't know a single person it does not mean that there is no demand.

    In fact there are a LOT of people around me who are complaining that they couldn't find a tablet like notebook. Especially in academia many people like portability and performance together.

    When I was trying out Samsung Slate 7 (which is basically a much similar device with lower resolution) there were 3 people who immediately asked me for specs when they saw me writing on it. They played with it and LOVED it. Some wanted to use it for classes they were teaching etc etc. ALL of them were aware of the tablets like Ipad and ALL of them told me that they tried it for long periods of time and it is only a toy good for elderly people or Children who has use for only small games , internet and writing emails.

    I am a person who replaced pen and paper with it, I am also making simulations with my computer, editing documents and I seriously don't want to carry my old tablet PC everyday.


    I also disagree on the resolution being too much. The higher it is the better it will look but the main problem is when you do multitasking it is a must to have more desktop space moreover inking on a high pixel density screen is a big big plus which was missed in the tablet pcs.

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  2. #12


    Posts : 5
    Windows 7


    @Jimbo:

    I don't agree with your reply in almost all points (please read my previous post on why you can not substitude it with a simple notebook) and I have written my reasons.


    But I also like e ink screen a lot and it is by far the best reading environment next to real paper. However my needs are too much so I simply can not just carry a smartphone and a reader. Still I love those devices and if you have eye strain no tablet /notebook can replace an e reader.

    But you see, even a device (a slower device having not much other use) like an e book reader may be extremely important just because it comes with a nice screen for reading then it shouldn't be hard to understand why tablet form, digitizer layer and high performance would make another device far superior for a lot of people.


    I also believe with the large screen smartphones the current tablets are seriously not needed. Smart phones have the same hardware with a smaller form factor.


    Btw I always had a powerful desktop pc and I still need a device like Surface pro. Slate 7 was great but it had insulation problems and very short battery like (like 2 hours) still it immediately became a lot of people's favourites.
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  3. #13


    Posts : 224
    .


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    For many, If it's not an iPad..It's not worth buying. I was outside of the Apple store this past weekend with my family and the place was absolutely jammed packed. People love that stuff.

    I'm not keen on the RT either as I have an internal limit of 400 for a tablet style device. I'd forgo some hardware if I could save 200.

    Many either want the prestigious IPad or a much cheaper alternative like the kindle fire or nexus 7. I'm not convinced people want a more fully featured portable computer with a higher price tag. Only time will tell.
    that's the problem, you can not lump the windows 8 pro tablets in with ipads/nexus/kindles.

    get the concept of tablet out of your mind when you view the win 8 pro tablets it isn't for playing stupid games on it's for actual work, something none of the other tablets on the market do very well.

    we can probably argue all day at the real work aspects of the ipad...but it would be a pointless venture as it really trully sucks at that they all do.

    tablets could have a far larger market if they just had that seperation of, crap and for games/crap and for reading books/crap and just for image(ipad)/for work...any actually made for real world work.

    currently the win 8 pro tablets are the only one's capable of multiple roles be it games and junk, music and silly stuff, and work based proper applications.
    seen a few lovely i5 samsung tablets today running 8 pro unbelievable performance that wipes the floor with anything even most laptops and low end desktops.

    the ipads are pretty in name only and they still suffer from the same fate that all tablets suffer from, they get used for pointless features mostly instead of

    now while it may not take off very quickly the options it provides will eventually cull the tablet market into, style over substance(ipad) and substance over style tablets...one will win...i know what i'd buy.
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  4. #14


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I care, some friends of mine care (ones that are considered "normal" in technological terms), according to a friend that works at Costco, some other people do care, at best buy at the day of Windows 8 and Surface RT's launch, people were asking about as they care. Lots of people in Times Square cared as they waited until midnight to buy one.
    I'm baffled at this point as to why with how hard you have evangelicalized about the Surface that you don't actually have one. Why are you so interested, but yet haven't plunked down your own money on one?

    Of course there are people who are interested. I have a good friend at work, who I have worked with for years, we've been at multiple companies together...and he absolutely loves and adores Blackberry. He's always talking about their next best thing or how they are going to turn it around, etc. But in the case of my friend, he has a Blackberry phone, he will upgrade to a different Blackberry phone when it becomes available. He has purchased several of the Blackberry Playbook tablets). He goes to Blackberry conferences. He runs the blackberry mobile systems at work, etc. He talks the talk and he walks the walk. But even with his fanaticism, i don't see very much excitement for Blackberry from anybody else that I work with and know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I do really wonder if something is weird with the water over where you're at... Why buy a fashion item at 500 dollars when something else is better for the money, and why buy something that has a screen only three inches bigger than most smartphones? It's like wishing your android or iphone couldn't make calls and can't fit in your pocket.
    Well, first off, I don't own a $500 fashion item device. Never have. My tablet is an Asus Trasformer Android and was purchased for around $350. And in my case, my tablet is a 10" tablet, not a 7" tablet. For my purposes, having a larger screen is more important as I don't travel anywhere with my tablet (it's NEVER left my house). But if you were a person who traveled extensively for work, I can see the value in carrying around a smaller 7" tablet that might fit better in a jacket pocket, etc.

    I got a request today to purchase 4 new tablets for my company for a trade show. They asked for an iPad 3, an iPad mini, a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 10.1" and a Samsung Galaxy Tab 7". Shockingly, we are a windows software based company and our online applications are flashed based. The Surface or any other Windows tablet wasn't even a consideration? Why not? Because they don't think it's the device that consumers will have in their own hands, they would rather show them what they "can" do with the devices that they do own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Just because you don't know a single person it does not mean that there is no demand.
    No, I understand that. But I'm a systems admin at work, I have been doing this for nearly 20 years. I've got lots of techie friends, both physically and around the world on facebook, forums, etc. I'm almost surprised with the fact that nobody that I know personally has bought one, expressed interest in one, played with one at work, etc. At my office, we have iPad's, Galaxy Tabs, Nexus 7"s, Chromebooks, and we are ordering more iPad's, and more Galaxy Tab's...but when I asked them to at least get a Surface RT to look at, they didn't even give the request the time of day. Again, no interest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    I also disagree on the resolution being too much. The higher it is the better it will look but the main problem is when you do multitasking it is a must to have more desktop space moreover inking on a high pixel density screen is a big big plus which was missed in the tablet pcs.
    I'm more concerned with classic desktop apps and the font and such being so small with high resolution on a small display. Especially coupled with the fact that it's a touchscreen device. So, until I actually use one in real life, I'm going to remain concerned that 1920x1080 might be too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by gazz9496 View Post
    get the concept of tablet out of your mind when you view the win 8 pro tablets it isn't for playing stupid games on it's for actual work, something none of the other tablets on the market do very well.
    I understand, but I'm not convinced yet this is a real market opportunity with much demand. I think the success of other devices has proven that with portable devices, people don't do much "real" work, but rather use it for fun and games. For me and portability, I still like my laptop where I can replace the battery myself when it goes, I can put more RAM into it if I need it, I have a full size attached keyboard permanently on the device, i can replace the hard drive if it dies or becomes too small, I have optical drives or room for a second hard drive in the media bay, I have a 14" screen, etc. I would think that those who really are into doing "real" work are going to stick with laptops and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by gazz9496 View Post
    the ipads are pretty in name only and they still suffer from the same fate that all tablets suffer from, they get used for pointless features mostly instead of

    now while it may not take off very quickly the options it provides will eventually cull the tablet market into, style over substance(ipad) and substance over style tablets...one will win...i know what i'd buy.
    Time will tell. I'm not an Apple guy at all. Don't own a personal Apple product. However, I see them being the one to beat in the tablet marketspace. Even if they are limited, it seems people are more than willing to accept those limitations. And I'm seeing more and more of IT diehards that I have worked with for years and years and years who have actually started purchasing Apple products of their own. It sort of baffles my mind and I wouldn't believe it if I wasn't seeing it with my own eyes.
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  5. #15


    Posts : 5
    Windows 7


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    ...
    No, I understand that. But I'm a systems admin at work, I have been doing this for nearly 20 years. I've got lots of techie friends, both physically and around the world on facebook, forums, etc. I'm almost surprised with the fact that nobody that I know personally has bought one, expressed interest in one, played with one at work, etc. At my office, we have iPad's, Galaxy Tabs, Nexus 7"s, Chromebooks, and we are ordering more iPad's, and more Galaxy Tab's...but when I asked them to at least get a Surface RT to look at, they didn't even give the request the time of day. Again, no interest.
    ...
    Unfortunately the same problem again, you don't have connections with the people that needs this kind of device.
    My friends are computer scientists/engineers, electrical, mechanical engineers, applied mathematicians , economists and such. I can tell you that almost all of them find the tablets very restricted toys unsuitable for any kind of work they need. A friend of mine was going to purchase ipad and he is a fan of Apple, I made him purchase the lenovo tablet which at least came with a stylus (ntrig but still much better than those capacitive ones) and some nicer software. He liked it so much and he is happy that he didn't go with an ipad. Then he saw my thinkpad TABLET PC and immediately said that it would have better suited his needs. Another friend of mine got ipad since he liked iphone a lot, guess what he now hates it and believes it was a big waste of money. Each one of them also has a notebook pc because they need it and they would have loved to have only one device.
    Also I realized that people really do not want to change unless they are being forced to. If no one has introduced them Surface like machines how are they going to know that it is better. When people saw my Samsung Slate 7 and used it they were very very impressed and most of them showed interest. These people usually looked at the ipad and disappointed with it.

    Even word processing is a hassle for tablets let alone Matlab/ Mathematica like simulation software, Cad software(autocad etc.), software development environments. Even when you are typing documents in latex you are screwed if you need an additional package, your choices are limited etc etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    ...
    I'm more concerned with classic desktop apps and the font and such being so small with high resolution on a small display. Especially coupled with the fact that it's a touchscreen device. So, until I actually use one in real life, I'm going to remain concerned that 1920x1080 might be too much.
    I don't think this will be a big deal. Again this is a full operating system and interpolating pixels can easily be implemented. Also I have used high dpi screens (although not this high) and if your eyes are ok and the screen is a high quality clear screen you won't have much difficulty in adjusting this resolution. 6 years ago the digitizer layers were causing screen to lose its clarity but it is not the case anymore(Toshiba m400 tablet , 1440x1050 resolution on 12", used it and it was grainy fortunately they fixed that a long time ago). But again it is best to wait and then evaluate this issue.





    Finally I strongly believe that new Atom processors or the x86 processors like them make it possible to have full version of windows 8 to be run at a good level for everyday tasks and if they cut the price to $500 levels it would simply be the end to the arm based tablet era. Smartphones are everything that a tablet is so there is no need for a second, heavier and inferior "smartphone".
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  6. #16


    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Unfortunately the same problem again, you don't have connections with the people that needs this kind of device.
    Well, I have worked for Windows software development companies for nearly 20 years now. I work with programmers, fellow systems administrators, network admins, storage admins, office staff and accountants. So, I have plenty of friends and coworkers who are power users of a PC, and many who are hard core gamers....and the general response for them has been a desire to stay with their existing laptops/desktops in most cases. None of them seem to have a huge desire to do "real"
    work on a tablet. Either that, or they just won't mention it to me as they feel i might laugh and scoff at them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    My friends are computer scientists/engineers, electrical, mechanical engineers, applied mathematicians , economists and such. I can tell you that almost all of them find the tablets very restricted toys unsuitable for any kind of work they need.
    And I think that while more capable, even a Surface tablet is going to be somewhat inefficient to work with over the long haul. Fold out keyboards, small screens, smaller cramped keyboards, goofy stands they have to sit on, inability to upgrade anything, batteries that eventually don't hold a charge that cannot simply be replaced by end users.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Smartphones are everything that a tablet is so there is no need for a second, heavier and inferior "smartphone".
    Well, except that the screens are bigger (nicer for watching videos and reading books), the onscreen keyboards are larger (easier to type on), and apps have far more screen space to consume so you can have more features, options, etc...than you can have on a "smartphone". And in a family with multiple members, it might be advantageous to have 3 different sub $300 tablets for 3 kids to use, rather than 1 $1,000 tablet that they all have to share.
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  7. #17


    Posts : 5
    Windows 7


    @Pparks1:

    I will give you a very simple example.

    1. I need a notebook that I can carry with me everyday to university so the lighter it is the better.

    2. I am using the digitizer to take notes and the notes are full of mathematical symbols which can not be typed. If I try to use latex I won't be able to write half of what I am writing with a digitizer pen.

    3. I don't carry books and journals instead I use my tablet to read and Annotate them.

    4. While at the University I need to use the library for long periods of time. While reading a subject I am also running Matlab on the background, I am also typing another document so I definitely need a proper cpu running a full OS.

    5. I sometimes go to conferences. While prepearing my slides, I type and correct another document and again running simulations in the background. I can not rely on remote desktop apps for this.

    None of them is possible with a toy tablet. Since I can not use a notebook for taking notes it is also not possible to do these things with a notebook. There is only one choice, the ultrabooks in the tablet form.

    There are many more examples like artists who need portability + performance for photoshop and similar programs + a digitizer layer again this is only satisfied with a device like surface pro.

    So there are people who needs this kind of device.

    BTW , I got my first computer when I was a small kid about 15-20 years ago. It was a 286 running dos having 1mb of ram and 40mb of hdd drive. Since then I built myself many desktops and I always preferred desktops to laptops. I used to play games and always had mid to upper range Graphics cards. Although the only game I play now is Starcraft 2 I still have an ok desktop for playing it (Oc.ed phenom x4+ 8gigs of ram + hd6870). I always liked bigger monitors and usually it was the most expensive part of my system. However the monitors on the market are low ppi and I realized that even I like smaller high ppi monitors just as much. I mainly use my desktop at home have a large 26" screen with the sucky resolution of 1080p. I use ergonomic MS keyboard, a nice logitech mouse.


    So I know what I am talking about and this device will really fit my needs perfectly, I know many people like me. You are constantly saying that your friends does not need it. That's fine and now you know someone who needs such a device. It should be nice to see that even after 20 years of experience you can meet people with different needs.

    I also don't like kickstand, the keyboard size is ok when you are on the go but please don't make it like a huge deal. For portability you make some sacrifices. At home I sit on my Herman Miller chair on the go I sit wherever I find. Now should I say that notebooks suck because you can't find a nice chair to sit while working with it ?


    You are right about the battery although I am sure there is a way to change the battery and even if not the new lithium based batteries can last 3+ years(the new iterations are much better than the old ones) and after that you probably need to change it altogether anyways.
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  8. #18


    I am glad to see that you have a solid need for such a device. Of course, for those who were in school last year before these devices arrived, how did they ever find a way through the program?

    When I went to college (late 90s) very few students even had a desktop computer, most have to reserve time in the labs and carry their work to and from on a floppy disk. My notes were all pen and paper in a spiral bound notebook.

    All I am trying to say is that I am almost surprised by the complete lack of interest that I see for the Surface. I'm still undecided on whether I think Microsoft is really going to have a substantial presence in this area over the next 5 years. I've been wrong many times before, a.few years ago I would have never believed that pc sales would decline and most people would be flocking to using tablets. I personally hate them, don't feel productive at all with them and don't see any way to replace my home computer. Yet, I see people more or less doing it with iPads, and Androids. And these people seem to love their tablet device..while mine is almost exclusively used by my children. I either use my phone, or my laptop/desktop.
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  9. #19


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I personally saw no need for tablets, because what apple decided to make mainstream as tablet was adopted: expensive and limited. I found that they were just trinkets with neutered smartphone OS's, I have real needs and real work to do on the go, that will not cut it.

    Before Windows 8 came out, I was looking around from time to time for a laptop, but I couldn't bring myself to buy one as I find that they're just so.....meh. Nothing stood out to me, I ended up considering an ASUS gaming laptop that isn't manufactured anymore as that was a good fit at the time.

    Now, I'm now in the process of re-re building my desktop, so I don't want something over the top. I want something portable, powerful, and with stylus. That is the Surface Pro.

    As for the lack of Surface demand, this isn't shocking. When a company only has about 60-70 physical retail stores and selling a product that is 500+ dollars, consumerism goes into action. Meaning, if you can't physically feel the product and physically evaluate it other than from an image, you're not going to risk it, that is unless you KNOW you really want one. This is why the Amazon Showroom (best buy) and Staples are now selling them in some stores as well as on their website. This is why a French tech retailer is selling them in stores. People need that physical contact to decide whether or not to plunk down hundreds of dollars on something like that.

    Just look at the ipad, when it first came out, it was skewered as a feminine hygiene product, a giant ipod touch, and even reviewed initially as "a product that is nice, but has doesn't really have a space in our already tech filled lives." This was from NBC News, of which they use apple products. A few years later, it definitely does....
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  10. #20


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    I am glad to see that you have a solid need for such a device. Of course, for those who were in school last year before these devices arrived, how did they ever find a way through the program?

    When I went to college (late 90s) very few students even had a desktop computer, most have to reserve time in the labs and carry their work to and from on a floppy disk. My notes were all pen and paper in a spiral bound notebook.

    All I am trying to say is that I am almost surprised by the complete lack of interest that I see for the Surface. I'm still undecided on whether I think Microsoft is really going to have a substantial presence in this area over the next 5 years. I've been wrong many times before, a.few years ago I would have never believed that pc sales would decline and most people would be flocking to using tablets. I personally hate them, don't feel productive at all with them and don't see any way to replace my home computer. Yet, I see people more or less doing it with iPads, and Androids. And these people seem to love their tablet device..while mine is almost exclusively used by my children. I either use my phone, or my laptop/desktop.
    My notes in class will all be done with a stylus and OneNote...

    Generation shifts I tell you!
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