Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


I need some third party suggestions as I am conflicted.

  1. #1


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro

    I need some third party suggestions as I am conflicted.


    Daily greetings everyone!

    I'm right now gathering a parts list for my new puter rebuild later early next year, FINALLY, AMD's new APU lineup is FINALLY available for retail for the desktop! And new motherboards too!!

    So I was perusing the Newegg and I decided to look at the liquid cooling sets they have. I remember two years ago with my last rebuild, I was pondering that as an option but later felt it wasn't cost effective as I was right, air cooling was totally fine for my Athlon processor, even overclocked pretty hard. But, as the APU I'm looking at has a modded Radeon 7660 onto of a quad core AMD processor that I do believe is overclockable, I may need to look at liquid cooling seriously now. My options I'm preferring are the closed-loop systems, where the radiator attaches to the back of the case, and the water block plops onto the APU, and that's it, no external tanks or remote possibilities of leaking. Sounds nice, but it might conflict with my airflow setup. I have two 92mm case fans that can blow 120 CFM, loud, but that's what case fan controllers are for! If I had the two fans set up, on top of an extra fan pulling about 50 CFM, I'll have a negative flow which isn't really ideal. Methinks I could make or find a jumper to connect to the motherboard CPU fan pins so it doesn't freak out at boot, and attach my case fan to the radiator and call it good. I would adjust the fan speed accordingly to usage, but I think if I have even just 50 CFU (fans running at 5 volts) that should be plenty enough. I would do that especially since I don't believe I can fit the radiator and case fan on the backside as my case I'm rebuilding (literally) which dates back to the trusty, inefficient days of the P4. Should I go for it?

    Next, BOB SAGET, is the motherboard itself. I don't have much to say, only I need to vent. THEY'RE EITHER TOO BIG OR TOO SMALL!!!! I CAN'T FIT SEVEN SLOTS IN MY CASE AND I GET STRAPPED WITH FOUR SLOTS!!!! Damn it.

    But speaking of such, I have me a question regarding PCI E 2.0 backwards compatibility. I discovered a SSD that is on the PCI E 2.0 x4 interface. My only available motherboard has two PCI E 2.0 x16 slots, and two PCI E x1 slots. Now, with my graphics card that will abolish using one PCI E x1 slot (I'll have to use a ribbon cable extender so I can use a built in wifi card) I'm left with two of each x16 and x1. Can I plop in the SSD (PCI E 2 x4) into the PCI E 2 x16 slot? I know they have backwards compatibility, but part of me calls BS.

    To the system tweakers/overclockers out there, is it that difficult to overclock RAM? I've read how it's done, and the gains you can get especially with the new APU. But it seems like the scene in Star Trek: The Next Generation where the computer has to navigate the Enterprise out of an asteroid field as the calculations are immense and precise, except YOU are the computer.

    Oh, one last bit. Does anyone use case fan filters on their rigs? If so, I'm assuming air flow is impeded, but is it significant? And does anyone have/know/use anything or have tips to share to quite the noise in the case? I bet when all is done, a roaring beast will roar...

    And to those that will question some items, this rebuild is a legitimate future proofing build to last AT THE VERY LEAST, five years of hardcore performance, with the possibility and likelihood of upgrading the new APU "Kaveri" next summer as AMD claims 25 percent performance gains overall and still on the FM2 socket. We'll see. But hardcore performance entails, HD video playback, 1080p gaming at highest settings as possible, video converter/video authoring, Photoshop, AutoCAD, power efficiency, and overall performance so fast you'll slap your mother.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Oh, one last bit. Does anyone use case fan filters on their rigs? If so, I'm assuming air flow is impeded, but is it significant? And does anyone have/know/use anything or have tips to share to quite the noise in the case? I bet when all is done, a roaring beast will roar...
    I run cases that include filters. I don't necessarily have filters on the fans themselves, but I have filters over the entire air intake area on the front of the cases. I would not have it any other way. My cases stay sparkling clean inside and I clean that filter out very regularly and I'm amazed at how much stuff it stopped.

    I overclock my boxes (albeit only slight to moderate), I continue to use my stock fans on my Intel coolers and I only have 2-3 fans in my case, all spinning as slow as they can and I have next to now problems.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    And to those that will question some items, this rebuild is a legitimate future proofing build to last AT THE VERY LEAST, five years of hardcore performance, with the possibility and likelihood of upgrading the new APU "Kaveri" next summer as AMD claims 25 percent performance gains overall and still on the FM2 socket. We'll see. But hardcore performance entails, HD video playback, 1080p gaming at highest settings as possible, video converter/video authoring, Photoshop, AutoCAD, power efficiency, and overall performance so fast you'll slap your mother.
    My current rig at home, is now 3.5 years old and going strong. It wasn't outrageously expensive when purchased (~$1,200), I was just particular about my parts. The only upgrades I have made is a new video card and a few years ago I added an SSD. Other than that, it's still flying. This box is a Q9550 CPU, 8GB of DDR2-800RAM, 80GB Intel SSD, 1TB Caviar Black, GTX570 and it's great. I have a brand new Core i7-3770 at work, with 16GB of DDR3, and a 2GB Seagate hard drive and I don't find it to be that much faster in many tasks than my box at home.

    I assume you are just an AMD fan? If it were me, I wouldn't even consider AMD at the present time. Intel more or less spanks 'em as far as performance goes. But if you are AMD loyal, I can understand sticking to their products.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Yes, I'm an AMD fan. I choose AMD's new desktop lineup of APUs over Intel. I was going to consider Intel when I found out that the new FM2 motherboards won't have PCI E 3.0 until later, but I got over that as a new Radeon 7x graphics card will still run on PCI E 2.0 x16 just fine as the bandwidth for it isn't being overly taxed for graphics. The revision entails more for enterprise/server SSD performance. A few reviews give the quad core A10 a run for an i5's money in the graphics arena. An APU WHOOMPS an Intel equivalent. And for the price of an i3, you get a chip that is roughly on par with an i5-2400 and graphically on par with an NVIDIA GTX 550, AMD hands down wins again with performance per dollar. With the money saved versus the Intel/NVIDIA route, I'll have more money to pop in a Radeon 7870, overclock it if possible, and see real decent frame rates in games at very great settings. Yes, an i7 will beat down the A10, but at HUGE cost that I may or may not experience.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Yes, an i7 will beat down the A10, but at HUGE cost that I may or may not experience.
    I'm going to have to go look up the prices, because I just build a Core i7-3770 at work and it was only $300 for the CPU....which I didn't think was that expensive.

    Edit: But after looking at the price of the A10 at NewEgg (around $129), it makes a $309 seem very expensive. Might finally have to give AMD a look again. I haven't had one since the AMD Athlon 64X2...back when they were kicking Intels' butt.

    But then again, these numbers seem to show that in most areas a Core i5 costing $75 more, performs better in many, many areas.
    AMD Trinity A10-5800K vs Intel Ivy Bridge i5-3470 - Reviews with Synthetic Benchmarks don't matter right? by VR-Zone.com

    Integrated graphics performance is a non-issue for me, as I will either have a dedicated graphics card, or wont' require intense graphics.
    Last edited by pparks1; 05 Oct 2012 at 22:04.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Did some reading, and I have to say I will continue to pass on these new Trinity AMD chips. They are attacking the low cost front, but they aren't bringing the performance.

    Hothardware had this to say (AMD A10 and A8 Trinity APU: Virgo CPU Performance - HotHardware)
    Performance Summary: In last week’s article detailing GPU performance, AMD’s latest Trinity-based APUs put up scores that easily outpaced Intel’s integrated graphics offerings. Today’s look at CPU performance, however, tells an entirely different story. The A10-5800K and A8-5600K generally offer better performance than the previous-generation Llano-based APUs they’ll be supplanting in AMD’s desktop APU line-up. Versus Intel’s similarly priced desktop offerings, however, the picture isn’t as rosy. The dual-core Core i3-3220 and i3-3225 keep pace with and in many cases significantly outpace AMD’s latest APUs.

    The competitive landscape doesn’t change all that much with the release of AMD’s latest A-Series APUs. The lead in processor performance Intel has maintained over the last couple of generations remains firmly intact. And the superior integrated graphics performance AMD has offered since the introduction of Llano continues. The deltas have simply shifted a bit. The Trinity-based A10-5800K and A8-5600K are a little more competitive with Intel’s offerings at their respective price points in terms of CPU performance, but AMD has extended their lead a bit in terms of integrated graphics performance.

    Speaking of price point, we’re sure many of you are wondering how much these things will cost. Fortunately, AMD is being aggressive on that front. The flagship A10-5800K will be priced around $122 and the A8-5600K will be about $101. The lower-end A6-5400K and A4-5300 will be only $67 and $53, respectively. Considering the kind of graphics performance offered by the A10-5800K and A8-5600K we tested, their somewhat improved CPU performance, and decent overclockability, AMD’s latest APUs represent a good value. If you’re looking to build an entry-level system with good graphics performance, AMD’s Trinity-based A-Series APUs and the Virgo platform are an affordable, no-fuss, solution.


    Personally, I'm not looking for entry level systems with good graphics performance.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    Covington, La
    Posts : 1,184
    Windows 7 HP 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center 64BIT


    Some of the water cooled systems recommend having the radiator fan as an intake so cooler air is used. Also the cpu fan header controls the pump and the fan so this may work for you. I have the Antec Kuhler H2O 620 on two of my systems and they work just fine. I have 8 fans on my system and try to balance for a slight positive pressure. I have seen some good filters that reduce the airflow by 15%.

    Jim
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Intel always outdoes AMD in the processing arena, but even an i7 with its integrated graphics get blown away by Radeon. I've looked into many reviews and benchmarks, the ones that I care about are real world graphics/gaming performance. One test was with an i5 paired with a Radeon 7870 (with a motherboard I believe had PCI E 3.0) and an A10 using just the dedicated graphics card, it did pretty well. The i5 beat the A10 in some instances, the A10 was on par with other scenarios.

    Then pair the A10's built in Radeon chip in CrossFire with a dedicated Radeon 7870, frame rates are pretty great. Personally, as long as 60 FPS is achieved with high settings, I'm good. The human eye can't really process past 60 FPS, so having a game play at 130 FPS is a bit overkill for my person.

    300 dollars is a bit high compared to the A10, especially when that's without a separate graphics card, which would be almost 500. For that price, an A10 and a Radeon 7870 or 7970 in CrossFire. More bang for buck. I might upgrade to the new APU next summer as 25% overall performance is expected to be achieved, as well as having the GPU accessing CPU memory.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8


    Anybody using an i7 with integrated graphics is not gaming, but instead using the system just as I am running vms, watching videos and movies.

    Any gamer is going to be both concerned with both processing power and their gpu. So unless they are on a very tight budget, I would see them going for a fast cpu and a dedicated graphics card.

    I always see the same thing with amd fans...going to buy something now and upgrade later as AMD is always promising great things down the road. Unfortunately, they often come out with huge hype and only so-so performance and leave diehard fans disappointed and defensive against all of us saying, "told ya so".

    I don't think you would be disappointed with the a10, but if you want a system that will truly hold up for the next 5+ years, I don't suggest a budget processor today.
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  9. #9


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    True, I could do Intel. But Intel is kind of the same,there will ALWAYS be something better behind the corner. Right now, they're at a tick in improvement before the tock of next gen chips that promise something better.

    In the long run, I can still upgrade to a new APU yearly as money savings will be there to do so. AMD is promising better support for the FM2 socket, which I like because Intel seems to have a new socket every generation of chips they release. There currently six AMD sockets to choose from, Intel is like double that currently.

    I personally don't care too much in simple synthetic comparisons as I do for real world performance. If I have a chip paired with a dedicated card, not in CrossFire, and it performs similarly with an i5 in game frame rates and is still less overall to buy and operate; that's what wins me over. That, and more graphical bang for buck when the APU is in a CrossFire setup with that dedicated card over the Intel/NVIDIA/AMD setup, that also wins me over.

    To me, I'd rather upgrade to a newer APU versus looking back and realizing the Intel route might had been overkill for my needs. The A10 will suit me now, and the next one will as well, I don't mind that as I do have plans to make upgrades when necessary.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10


    Orbiting the Moon
    Posts : 2,975
    Windows 10 x64


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    The human eye can't really process past 60 FPS, so having a game play at 130 FPS is a bit overkill for my person.
    The human eye processes (sees) about 24fps maximum.
    You're good to go with 60fps.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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