Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


I need some third party suggestions as I am conflicted.

  1. #11


    It was just my suggestion as you wanted something for the long term. I don't like to upgrade and make changes, when it comes to cpu and mobo. I tend to just build new about every 3 years. I'm at 3.5 years now and no complaints with my current box. It should suit for another 1-2 years.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #12


    Posts : 835
    Win 8.1 Pro


    I can't comment on much, but what I can say is....

    The 60FPS thing is true, but a bit of a misnomer with graphics in games.
    A higher FPS is always better, now, the 130FPS is overkill, but in all cases, anything higher than 60FPS makes for smoother gaming video. it's not so much that you can see it all, it's contributes to less flicker and ghosting/tearing. Even at 60FPS, in some games, the FPS drops below that and you get all that, with a better system that can provide a higher FPS, if it does drop, theoretically if the system can handle the drop it recovers better and becomes unnoticeable.

    So, it's not of what we can see as it is based on performance of the system as a whole.

    However, you have to have an LCD that can handle, most are locked at 60FPS.


    ************
    The system in my specs is about 6 years old, I am playing BL2 at moderate graphics levels and Skyrim the same, I have to down, the Shadows, but other than that, it handles games really well...

    I base my performance, not off of FPS at all, I never check it, ever.

    I base it off of what I see as I am playing and tweak till it suits me, that is it. And they play wonderfully and look great. So, I am happy with whatever FPS I am getting and don't waste or concern myself with FPS at all.
    *********
    However, the above wtill holds true, especially when you start getting into the more Life Like Add-Ons and graphics such as ENB in Skyrim and other games.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #13


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by pparks1 View Post
    It was just my suggestion as you wanted something for the long term. I don't like to upgrade and make changes, when it comes to cpu and mobo. I tend to just build new about every 3 years. I'm at 3.5 years now and no complaints with my current box. It should suit for another 1-2 years.
    I know you're well intentioned, thanks for the input. I thought my build from two years ago would be ample enough, but I built like a year before new technology was released. I don't like building during technology cycles.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #14


    New technology is always being released. When I bought my q9550, the core i# series was out, but pricey...and not compatible with a project I was working on. So, I went with the q series with 12mb of cache and its been great.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #15


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    AMD Trinity A10-5800K vs INTEL core i5 3550 gaming benchmarks + overclocking - YouTube

    This is my main reason why I'm choosing AMD's A10 over the Intel i5 counterpart. The chip is less expensive, and it has overclocking flexibility versus some of Intel's chips, meaning more value is added. I read today that apparently, the A10 even with stock cooling, can achieve a stable 5.1 GHz over the 4.2 it can reach; and 7.3 GHz stable with liquid nitrogen cooling. That to me gives futureproofing assurance as I can overclock the CPU and GPU independently as needed and get playable graphics. Then there's the CrossFire setup, whoa Nelly!

    I think AMD has a huge window open with Windows 8 tablets as they're rather power efficient, and can provide the thin form factor needs while also providing graphical power. Consider that a LOT of software these days(after IE 9's release?) has been taking further advantage of the system's graphics chip from video converters, Photoshop obviously, CAD, internet browsers, and even Windoes 8's immersive apps are rendered solely by the graphics chip. I believe they have a great product at a great cost to offer, but they need to offer them. I haven't seen a single AMD powered tablet so far and if AMD is used, there's a potential 50-100 dollars in cost savings for tablets.

    That's my rant for the day...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #16


    Yes, buy a cheap budget chip and instead spend a whole lot more on a liquid nitrogen cooling solution. Thats the way to go for sure.
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  7. #17


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I'm not saying that I'm going to buy a liquid nitrogen cooling setup, I just merely stated an example of AMD's added value through overclocking. And the video I mentioned sure does represent that.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #18


    Like the video eluded to right at the start, nobody is going to build a gaming rig around built in graphics. I don't know of a single gamer friend of mine, who is using the built-in graphics capabilities of their cpu.

    I just don't see the inherent "value" in getting better on-board graphics if you are going to be running an external video card anyway. I would focus therefore entirely on the CPU itself and the power and performance that it brings to the table.

    A core i5-3550 is $195 at NewEgg and the A10 is $129. So, about $65 more for the Intel chip. And looking them up on this chart, PassMark CPU Lookup, shows the A10 at around 6,900 and the Core i5-3550 at 7,400. My 3.5 year old Q9550 is around 4,300. And the Core i7-3770 that I bought at work is at 10,300+.

    I still feel that the A10 is shortchanging yourself if you are trying to build a "future-proof" gaming rig that will last 3-5 years.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #19


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    I think you might be overshooting the runway here. Theoretically, yes the A10 isn't skewed for gaming as it is for AIO PCs, but that doesn't mean it's not built for decent gaming. It does both. I'm not saying that I'll be using JUST the built in GPU. The value-added benefit I see here is taking a dedicated AMD Radeon 7870 card and pairing that in a CrossFire setup, where both the A10's Radeon chip and the dedicated 7870 are working together. Together, they reduce any frame rate drops as two graphics chips are better than, just as a dual core CPU is better than a single core. As I've said before, lots of software are using the GPU for visual rendering as you can see that first hand with any modern browser when you turn off hardware acceleration, internet content rendering drops and CPU usage ticks up and I've seen on more impotent systems, that affects overall usability. More value-added benefits is overclocking. The A10 is pretty overclockable just on stock cooling and from the video, a 200 MHz jump in the GPU and faster RAM speeds added about 10 FPS without anything else, whereas the i5 was stuck at about 10-15 frames. Yes, for 65 dollars more I could go with an i5, but then I'd need to spend the 280 or so dollars for a decent GPU just to get closer and above those framerates that the A10 can single handedly do.

    To me, the number side of the argument doesn't matter too much when you're gaming. If at least the playable minimum of 30 FPS is achieved with high quality, and the gaming standard of 60 FPS and more is achieved with a CrossFire set up, along with overclocking; I feel pretty fine for a future proofed build. I can upgrade to a better APU next year if I feel necessary, or I can just overclock until then, the CPU, onboard GPU, and dedicated GPU.

    You said when you built your system, it was about $1,200 before a video card and SSD. I did the numbers, that's my ENTIRE system with dedicated graphics, a PCI E based SSD, and all other add on cards. With the price of your additional upgrades, that's almost two four TB hard drives, realistically one.

    Maybe in the long run, I might end up with Intel, but seeing as how realistic daily usage is concerned, AMD isn't a bad route, to me that is.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #20


    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    I think you might be overshooting the runway here. Theoretically, yes the A10 isn't skewed for gaming as it is for AIO PCs, but that doesn't mean it's not built for decent gaming.
    But frankly very few people build a pc for decent gaming. Either they want good gaming, or don't care about gaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    It does both. I'm not saying that I'll be using JUST the built in GPU. The value-added benefit I see here is taking a dedicated AMD Radeon 7870 card and pairing that in a CrossFire setup, where both the A10's Radeon chip and the dedicated 7870 are working together.
    From my reading, the A10 GPU won't crossfire with a 7870. And I have had friends who have screwed around with Crossfire, and many have dropped it in favor of a single high end graphics card.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Together, they reduce any frame rate drops as two graphics chips are better than, just as a dual core CPU is better than a single core. As I've said before, lots of software are using the GPU for visual rendering as you can see that first hand with any modern browser when you turn off hardware acceleration, internet content rendering drops and CPU usage ticks up and I've seen on more impotent systems, that affects overall usability.
    Depending upon the software, dual core is not always better. And you aren't going to have any i3,i5,or i7 struggling with browser videos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    More value-added benefits is overclocking. The A10 is pretty overclockable just on stock cooling and from the video, a 200 MHz jump in the GPU and faster RAM speeds added about 10 FPS without anything else, whereas the i5 was stuck at about 10-15 frames. Yes, for 65 dollars more I could go with an i5, but then I'd need to spend the 280 or so dollars for a decent GPU just to get closer and above those framerates that the A10 can single handedly do.
    It won't take an i5 and a nearly $300 video card to outperform that A10. You can get a Radeon 6670, which is more or less what the A10 packs for $49.99 from NewEgg. Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 6670 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card (11192-22-20G). Coupled with the dedicated video RAM, and the faster processing power than the A10, and for about $110 more you will likely get a fair amount more performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    You said when you built your system, it was about $1,200 before a video card and SSD. I did the numbers, that's my ENTIRE system with dedicated graphics, a PCI E based SSD, and all other add on cards. With the price of your additional upgrades, that's almost two four TB hard drives, realistically one.
    Keep a few things in mind, the $1,200 was 3.5 years ago. Back then, an 80GB Intel SSD was around $550. It did include a video card, it was just an Nvidia 9800GTX+ at the time, which was later replaced when BF3 came out and I needed more graphics performance. It included a $175 case, a modular power supply (which was about $165 back then), and it included the cost of my operating system..which was a Vista 64bit Ultimate OEM copy which was close to $180 if I remember correctly. Add those 3 items up, and you have $520 of my build costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Maybe in the long run, I might end up with Intel, but seeing as how realistic daily usage is concerned, AMD isn't a bad route, to me that is.
    Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with AMD. I've owned quite a number of them over the years. Just in the last few years, the power to performance ratio just hasn't made sense for me. It used to be they were dramatically cheaper and offered 95% of the performance. Now, it seems they are a bit cheaper, offer a decent amount of performance...but it's always the "next thing" which is really going to put them back in the game. I just don't trust 'em for the next thing right now. For 2.5 years they guaranteed that the Bulldozer was going to make the Intel chips look absolutely silly. But when it actually came out, the highest end 8 core AMD, was only on par with the middle of the road core i5. They didn't set the world on fire, and instead had to simply lower the price and get the budget builds as their performance wasn't anywhere near as awesome as they indicated it would be.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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