Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

goodbye Windows 10

  1. #1

    Posts : 73
    w7 pro - ( Server 2012 build 9200 ) - Server 2016 - Mint 18.2

    goodbye Windows 10

    ... tried every build of Windows 10 typically available.

    Liked much of it, but the drive to go full desktop mode only is a deal breaker.

    Like someone said, the start screen has been neutered in Windows 10
    and is apparently not available in build 10041.

    It is clear that many Windows 10 users have already chosen to go with the Classic Shell or any other type of 3rd party start menu. Desktop icons are apparently popular again.

    A deal breaker for me was that oblytile no longer works properly in 10041.
    ... don't see the point to revert to an earlier build of 10 since it is only temporary.

    The start menu in 10 still has issues. Expanding to full screen moves all the tiles.
    What was on the left side of the screen is now on the top or right side of the screen.

    If Microsoft wants to go all desktop with Windows 10 technologies, a.k.a. new "code" and secure functionality, why not just implement a traditional Windows 7 style start menu for the desktop and offer a choice to go with 8.1 metro interface - tablet mode.
    (probably most have issues with the 8.0 style)

    In 10, Where is the metro IE? It works beautifully in 8 / 8.1 ! Is Spartan going to be a Maxthon clone or will it be another desktop only browser?
    Will there be a metro Spartan?

    The desktop only is fine if that is what you like, fine for business, fine for work, fine for productivity and fine for everything else.

    Personally, I find Windows 8.0 to be a gem. It does so much that 8.1 cannot do.
    Others would disagree and say 8.1 fixes what 8.0 was.
    Still other believers think Windows 7 is a gem and the perfect OS.

    That's ok by me.
    The customization options in Windows 7 are awesome
    and it is a total Microsoft fail to have removed them from the Win32 explorer shells of 8 / 8.1 and 10.

    Why did they mess up the XP and Vista start menus with the Windows 7 box?
    Why not offer options like "click here" for XP style, "click here" for Vista style, "click here" for Windows 7 style start menus.

    The Windows 10 mix of live tiles transparency or no transparency, it doesn't matter, linked to a desktop menu is nonsense. How does anyone profit from a live tile that can only be seen if the start menu is running? (and it runs on top of the desktop) - whether transparent or not, it will still cover the desktop and must be clicked to go away so that the desktop can be used.

    So toolbars return as another option because the 10 menu (as seen by many) is not an efficient and useful tool.

    Purely for UI comfort, tiles that were squishy - soft - when pressed with a mouse pointer was a friendly gesture.
    Now, in build 10041, tiles are as hard as stone and probably intended for a touch UI anyway.

    From what I have read about the Surface Pro 3,
    much of Windows 10 is designed to be used on the Surface Pro 3 or whatever the next model is.

    For this user that exists in a microscopic minority, Windows 8.0 is the perfect blend of metro and desktop. ... having no need for viewing the desktop on the start screen / apps view background, (which can happen with 3rd party stuff), ... having no need for Close X buttons or options in the Win X menu to shut off etc..., having no need for metro apps to run in a desktop Window (also available with 3rd party),
    the Windows 8.0 UI works in a way that Windows 7, 8.1, and Windows 10 cannot.

    I thought, geez, the Windows 7 UI is awesome, but where are my thumbnailed full screen only metro apps?
    Where are my huge soft pressed customized 3D tiles?
    I could name 27 full screen metro apps that I love and use, but who cares!

    With a personal preference for build 9200, edge UI thumbnails that can be dragged out in the same manner as a touch swipe, full screen only scenarios that eliminate the need to move, minimize or resize desktop windows, tiles that can be made huge and easy to read that flex when pressed, file location changes to tiles that are applied immediately, everything installed is automatically pinned (easily unpinned), ... having no need for tile groups, ... having no need for a start button and enjoying the appearance of the desktop as a large live tiled thumbnail (not the pinned tile) etc ... of course it has been said before that the opposite view on all of this exists with desktoppers and 8.1 users.

    There is also opposition to 8.0 by 8.1 people but not as strong as the opposition by 7, XP, Apple and Linux types.

    Windows 10 works fine if you like it (unless one has technical issues).

    Windows 10? What happened to the resizable menu or the start screen?

    Since there is no possibility that the Windows 8.0 UI will ever return, I plan to make all kinds of system images and thumb drive iso backups so that the Operating System will remain saved for future use for as long as possible. For this user, Microsoft support is not needed. Out of the Box use works fine. Disabling updates in group policy is about as controversial as the elimination of the unneeded pagefile. Haven't used a pagefile for 15 years. My system has received no updates for years and scans out as clean and healthy using various tools and is protected by programs that are far more aggressive than what is supplied by Microsoft.

    The system does not need the net to function.

    The Operating System can function as a multimedia center only.
    For normal network (internet) use by this user only,
    regular clean installations onto wiped unallocated space is standard practice as a housekeeping chore.
    There are any number of tools to keep a system healthy and safe without the need for endless unwanted updates.

    ... got out my original 8.0 pro that cost 15 bucks (US dollars),
    entered the key on a clean install into unallocated space,
    and goodbye Windows 10.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2

    It sounds like it wasn't for you.
    Personally, I will upgrade all my Windows machines to 10 when it comes out. No reason for me to stick with 7 or 8.1.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3

    Trying to Sith things out
    Bamberg Germany
    Posts : 2,290
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

    For this user that exists in a microscopic minority
    It's all about choice, right? As long as an OS is supported(security updates) why not use it if you feel most comfortable with it.

    I personally love trying/using different OS's. Microsoft is supporting VISTA, 7, 8, 8.1, soon 10 currently that's choice. I'm currently using 7, 8.1, and testing 10, also I use Ubuntu, Linux Mint & Kubuntu, and once in a while Arch. My current preference is 8.1 is my workhorse and for secure surfing Ubuntu with a few tweaks because I like the Unity desktop(which actually prepared me for Win8)
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4

    Posts : 168
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64

    Yeah, I've been following the public's reaction to the builds coming out, and I guess the reaction is mixed, but I'm not totally surprised by that. Me, the only build I tried was the initial technical preview, the first one, whatever it was called back then. I put it in a VM and still have it, and I played around with it a little bit at first, but not lately. Seems like lately the biggest gripe I see is that people feel tablet mode is now pooched, much like people thought desktop mode was pooched when 8 first came out. But I keep thinking that maybe Microsoft still has time to fix that -- after all, it's still not done and is a work in progress. They're probably so concerned about losing desktop users that maybe they feel they have to address that first, before we see what they're doing in mobile.

    I still think I'm going to upgrade to it, and I'm not too worried. But who knows what will happen. My Surface RT I guess is only going to get a few of the 10 bits, not a whole upgrade. If 10 on desktop is stellar, well, fine, because that's what's going on my desktop rig. But I hope mobile gets sorted out.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5

    Posts : 4,514
    Vista and Win7

    You went thru a lot of work putting this report together. And although I do not agree with some of your conclusions, I can see your problem. It is the lack of harmony. I see that too.

    W10 feels like a carpet tuckered together from bits an pieces. I guess the developers wanted to please everybody a bit but the result is that nobody is really completely happy. I remember that we were a lot more enthusiastic when we were at this stage with Windows 7. But once W10 works it may be OK.

    I am holding my breath. Right now I cannot do much with it anyhow because the most important function for me (High Contrast Themes) is not yet fully implemented.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6

    Forever West
    Posts : 591
    WinVista, Win7, Win8.1, Win10, Mac OS X 10.10, Linux Mint 17.1

    I was given an older Notebook today that works good. It's a CTX running Win98 [FE] on a 233MHz Cyrix CPU with 30MB RAM and a 2.1GB HDD. Now if I could just find drivers for a Linksys 802.11g PCMCIA/PC Card Wireless adapter.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7

    Posts : 59
    Windows 8.1

    I think Windows 10 is just terrible for tablets and touch screen. I really hope they include the start screen because what they currently have is awful.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8

    Posts : 73
    w7 pro - ( Server 2012 build 9200 ) - Server 2016 - Mint 18.2

    Quote Originally Posted by whs View Post
    ... But once W10 works it may be OK ...
    Windows 10 works now. (except for those that find it does not work for them)
    Many have chosen to use it as their primary.
    I have found it fully functional and a nice system to use.

    However, 10 does not offer what I like. 10 is designed based on user feedback. It is also a victim of internal Microsoft power players and the bottom line. 8 has received reviews that are simply unacceptable.
    There is nothing about 10 that I need.

    The next motherboard I buy will have a xeon cpu
    (low voltage - low tdp - 20 or 30 mb cache - and 10 or 12 cores) and be compatible with 8.0.
    My current board and cpu are designed to be compatible with 8. The software used is compatible with 8.

    Down the road, it is possible that OEM products will be designed as compatible with 10 only.
    As an example, the Surface Pro 3 is designed for 8.1 not 8.0.
    There are no drivers to run 8.0 or Windows 7 on the SP3 as a primary OS.
    The SP3 is not compatible with 8.0 or 7.

    Of course other systems could be setup to run in VMs.

    So, new hardware could be designed to be used with 10 only as their primary systems.
    Soon, retail outlets will be selling systems with OEM touch displays of 10 as their primary systems.

    8.0 is gone by the by into the past as irrelevant.
    However again, 8.0 offers what I need and like. 8.1 and up does not.

    While mostly everyone will be following Microsoft down their upgrade paths, my route is going in a different direction. Bottom line for this user, 8.0 exists, it functions flawlessly for how I work, it does not need the net to function. I have a laptop in a closet as a spare and it has not connected to the net for almost 3 years.
    It runs fine.

    It almost appears that MS is driving to require a logon to their cloud servers before one could use their new system. Already, an activation server connection is required to install a system and the store is another logon obligation. Synchronization and user accounts with cloud servers are dubious / nebulous services. What privacy? Does anyone care? The store is getting loaded with desktop apps as well.

    Again, 10 works now but it is not my cup of tea. I never got jarred or had scrolling nightmares.
    For those that have technical issues with 10, well perhaps it does not work now.
    There is much about when a build does not work to revert to an earlier build.
    Ok, well, hitting ten forums enough it seems to me that many are going back and forth on VMs and various builds, various methods of build downloads and update mania.

    There is no guarantee that 10 will work any better than previous Operating Systems in terms of issue developments. Forums are heavily populated with users having endless errors on every system out there. 10 in final release will be no different.

    For this user, my preference is NO start button, LOL,
    massively huge metro tiles, totally full screen apps,
    totally full screen start and apps views, semantic zooming and start screen defaulted hot key search results.

    In 10, one can click to go full screen, but it's not the same as a forced default.
    I want full screen only apps. NO desktop windowing.

    This is all based on use and the user. MS is designing touch based systems for the enterprise that syncs across devices. Now MS is rewording programs / metro / etc... to Windows apps. MS also defines a shortcut as a Windows Application. Try it. Paste a shortcut ( - to a folder - ) into the 10 start menu folder, and use the search box. The shortcut will be listed as a Windows Application. Eh?

    In 10, where is the option to resize tile fonts? Where is the option to resize tiles to larger or extra large? They only offer small or medium. Is the resizable menu gone for good? Have they removed the start screen from 10? Are flex tiles bad for the 10 menu? Will enterprise users or workplace employees be putting a transparent expandable start menu on top of the desktop so they can look at live tiles? That would be something. Mostly visible in workplace cubicles are desktop spaces with desktop icons placed randomly or a secure logon screen that is ever present after a short pause of pc use.

    I like semantic zooming and the ability to design 3D customized text tiles. Desktop icons are nice, but not wanted / needed. Toolbars are awesome, but not needed by this user. Live tiles are not needed and phone features are not needed. Admittedly, my Pro 3 touch 8.1 system is really cool. Touch on the SP3 is amazing. The SPro3 currently sits in a closet. The suggestion that the Pro 3 can replace a laptop, well, maybe, but it cannot replace a workstation. The cpu is simply not powerful enough as a mobile device. ... not really a fan of running cpu utilization up to a 98 percent range.

    Anyway, 10 is not going where 8.0 is and where 8.0 is, is what I want.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9

    Posts : 1,875
    Windows 10 Pro Prieview x64

    You have to upgrade to 8.1 by November this year to remain supported though (2 years after 8.1 general release). Not trying to rush you at all but 8.0 will not be supported....

    Microsoft support lifecycle

    Or upgrade to 10 of course...
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10

    Posts : 73
    w7 pro - ( Server 2012 build 9200 ) - Server 2016 - Mint 18.2

    Quote Originally Posted by adamf View Post
    You have to upgrade to 8.1 by November ...
    Thank You. Of course I disagree.
    Not interested in a debate on this topic.
    Please feel free to stay supported.
    I sense you believe you must.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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