Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


"Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts"

  1. #1

    "Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts"


    Windows 8 seems to be a very controversial OS. The additional new Modern/Metro UI for navigation, the Window Store Modern/Metro apps, and Start Screen/All Apps verses the Start Menu seems to be the major factors of contoversy, although they do not complete the list. Opinions on this forum abound, which in turn tends to start many debates and even arguments.

    In this thread I would like us all to look for the facts rather than opinions. There was an American TV series called Dragnet. When police detectives Sargent Friday and Bill Gannon interviwed witnesses with questions they would encounter opinions with witnesses' answers rather than facts. Sargent Friday would always answer back "Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts". They would then get the facts to continue their investigation.

    Opinions are ok, but they do not solve any case. Opinions such as:

    I like Windows 8.
    I don't like Windows 8.
    Windows 8 is the quickest OS ever.
    Windows 8 is not the quickest OS ever.
    Windows 8 has quickest boot time.
    Windows 8 doesn't have the quickest boot time.
    MS is stupid for taking out the Start Menu.
    MS did a good job replacing the Start Menu with the Start Screen/All Apps.
    MS is stupid for not giving the choice of UI upon install.
    I like the new UI.
    It'll never sell.
    It'll sell like hotcakes.
    MS is a monopoly pushing their agenda.
    MS is not an evil empire.
    Etc...etc...

    For what reasons did MS develope Windows 8 the way they did? Why is there such different changes than past OSs? What are the facts? If you have facts of any kind with proof (usually a scientific study results, data charts/lists, a company employee statement/press release, or the like) I would like you to post it so I can add to the list.

    I'll start by stating facts about why I think they eliminated the Start Menu and introducing the Start Screen/All Apps.

    1. Touch is a growing market demand:
    Notebook and All-in-One PCs Driving Touch Screen Growth; Intel and Microsoft Supporting Touch Adoption
    Touch-screen market poised for growth

    2. They needed to develope a larger launch platform within the relation of the human finger size for touch navigation, which the Start Menu did not meet requirements:
    Designing the Start screen - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs
    Building "Windows 8" - Video #1 - YouTube

    What other reasons can you think of? I'll also be adding to this post as my time allows.

    Just for grins:
    Microsoft - YouTube
    Microsoft Showcase: Watch videos from Microsoft's online video collection
    Last edited by HippsieGypsie; 04 Mar 2013 at 04:06.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #2


    Posts : 959
    Windows 8.1, 10


    Ah I never saw Drag Net. (Too young!)

    However I do remember this being played; the radio version of it anyway...



    (With apologies to Hippsie Gypsie for going off totally topic in post 2!)
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #3


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Oh, there was the declining use of the start menu as it was due to the increasing use of the Taskbar pinning from Windows 7 along with jumplists. Seriously, with those two on the Taskbar, you really don't need a start menu at all other than to shut down or to search for an app.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #4


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    Oh, there was the declining use of the start menu as it was due to the increasing use of the Taskbar pinning from Windows 7 along with jumplists
    Now I have a fridge/freezer, I open the fridge door less often. That is because some of the stuff is in the freezer.

    It is obvious a fridge is completely useless now. Take it away.

    It is all down to interpretation. Sometimes there is deliberate misuse/misinterpretation. Shocking to find that out isn't it?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #5


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    Oh, there was the declining use of the start menu as it was due to the increasing use of the Taskbar pinning from Windows 7 along with jumplists
    Now I have a fridge/freezer, I open the fridge door less often. That is because some of the stuff is in the freezer.

    It is obvious a fridge is completely useless now. Take it away.

    It is all down to interpretation. Sometimes there is deliberate misuse/misinterpretation. Shocking to find that out isn't it?
    How did a refrigerator get involved?...

    Facts are facts. You wouldn't dispute the fact that literally no one other than the small fraction of people that used it used Windows Media Center. Microsoft even said that the average time the majority of users was about a couple of minutes and mostly to look around, and then never use it again. Only those with HTPCs and Xboxes would be concerned about WMC. So it was taken out to be an addon feature as there is no reason for it to stay in Windows if it's not even being used, EVER.

    The same goes for the start menu, it's been shown from Microsoft's gathered data from the Customer Improvement Program (or whatever it's called) that is on by default on EVERY PC with Windows 7 other than those who disable it (I'll rant about that later) that start menu usage was in fact, declining. If it stayed in Windows 8, it would still be in declining use. Probably by Windows 9, it would just be a simple vestige of olden days as it already has become. No one would really be using it, most would just use the Taskbar and jumplists. If it got to that point in Windows 9 or later with 8, why would that be a UI piece to keep? If it's not being used, there is a reason. Maybe it's not needed, maybe it's poorly designed, maybe there are other things people are doing that the start menu isn't needed for anymore. And also, it's a REAL pain in the crotch to use the start menu with a touchscreen in Windows 7, it's just not meant for that. The overall input scenario in the future with Windows 8 and on isn't with mouse input so much. But then again, this has been the future that Microsoft has envisioned for many, many, many, many years now. They just never acted on it with full force.

    Now for my rant against the CIP disabling. There were complaints from people that intentionally disabled CIP in the enterprise environment (to combat superfluous network chatter I guess) and personally as well for some whatever deluded reason. They complained that the Start Screen wasn't designed to how they used Windows. NO FREAKING CRAP! You're involvement in improving Windows and seeing how you're using doesn't even become known to Microsoft. AT ALL. It's such a stupid thing to do, and greatly idiotic to complain about UI changes that is claimed doesn't revolved around your personal use. If that's not how you use Windows, then don't bloody disable the CIP feature then! And don't complain about changes that alter the your workflow because of that!

    Good grief....
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #6


    Canon City
    Posts : 249
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit


    What amazes me is this is Windows 8 forums right? Seems like many users on here are not happy with the U/I change so isn't that why Windows 7 is still supported and there is a Window 7 forum? I mean so fine start menu button is gone, people know you can find things through the search option right? No different before, you just go into new places for the same old stuff.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #7


    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro


    Quote Originally Posted by DMGrier View Post
    What amazes me is this is Windows 8 forums right? Seems like many users on here are not happy with the U/I change so isn't that why Windows 7 is still supported and there is a Window 7 forum? I mean so fine start menu button is gone, people know you can find things through the search option right? No different before, you just go into new places for the same old stuff.
    Basically.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #8


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    I have posted before wthy the start screen is being shoved at users frequently - you pay no attention.

    Perhaps you can set up your own country - the State of Denial.

    I hope that is what you are in.

    I wouldn't like to think you were trying to deliberately mislead.


    How did a refrigerator get involved?...
    You are kidding, right ?

    Even you can understand that because the fridge door is opened less often - i.e. it's use has declined - that does NOT mean the fridge is a useless item and it should be removed from every household.


    Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics: The Manipulation of Public Opinion in America, by Michael Wheeler





    Quote Originally Posted by Coke Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SIW2 View Post
    Oh, there was the declining use of the start menu as it was due to the increasing use of the Taskbar pinning from Windows 7 along with jumplists
    Now I have a fridge/freezer, I open the fridge door less often. That is because some of the stuff is in the freezer.

    It is obvious a fridge is completely useless now. Take it away.

    It is all down to interpretation. Sometimes there is deliberate misuse/misinterpretation. Shocking to find that out isn't it?
    How did a refrigerator get involved?...

    Facts are facts. You wouldn't dispute the fact that literally no one other than the small fraction of people that used it used Windows Media Center. Microsoft even said that the average time the majority of users was about a couple of minutes and mostly to look around, and then never use it again. Only those with HTPCs and Xboxes would be concerned about WMC. So it was taken out to be an addon feature as there is no reason for it to stay in Windows if it's not even being used, EVER.

    The same goes for the start menu, it's been shown from Microsoft's gathered data from the Customer Improvement Program (or whatever it's called) that is on by default on EVERY PC with Windows 7 other than those who disable it (I'll rant about that later) that start menu usage was in fact, declining. If it stayed in Windows 8, it would still be in declining use. Probably by Windows 9, it would just be a simple vestige of olden days as it already has become. No one would really be using it, most would just use the Taskbar and jumplists. If it got to that point in Windows 9 or later with 8, why would that be a UI piece to keep? If it's not being used, there is a reason. Maybe it's not needed, maybe it's poorly designed, maybe there are other things people are doing that the start menu isn't needed for anymore. And also, it's a REAL pain in the crotch to use the start menu with a touchscreen in Windows 7, it's just not meant for that. The overall input scenario in the future with Windows 8 and on isn't with mouse input so much. But then again, this has been the future that Microsoft has envisioned for many, many, many, many years now. They just never acted on it with full force.

    Now for my rant against the CIP disabling. There were complaints from people that intentionally disabled CIP in the enterprise environment (to combat superfluous network chatter I guess) and personally as well for some whatever deluded reason. They complained that the Start Screen wasn't designed to how they used Windows. NO FREAKING CRAP! You're involvement in improving Windows and seeing how you're using doesn't even become known to Microsoft. AT ALL. It's such a stupid thing to do, and greatly idiotic to complain about UI changes that is claimed doesn't revolved around your personal use. If that's not how you use Windows, then don't bloody disable the CIP feature then! And don't complain about changes that alter the your workflow because of that!

    Good grief....
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #9


    Please be courteous in following my intentions of the thread. It was started for members to state facts that support opinions, whether they be for or against 8 . Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing opinions without facts backing them up. If I want opinions I'll read other threads.

    So far all I see are opinions, which is leading to an argument. Where are the facts to back them up?
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #10


    Posts : 5,360
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin


    What do you mean by facts?

    I'll start by stating facts about why I think...
    That is an opinion.

    You might inded think that is why they are doing it - that doesn't make it true.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Related Threads
Hello My Brand new Laptop: Lenovo g505 after upgrading it to windows 8.1 from MS Apps store now i am not able to connect to internet i get "limited" or "No Internet Access". i have tried to re install the driver no luck Lenovo support suggests to do factory rest but i dont want to go back...
Hi all, So I'm kind of stuck.. I currently have the problem where I am in an endless cycle of "loading files" -> "Windows Boot Manager" (see: How To Boot Into Safe Mode On Windows 8 (The Easy Way)). I have tried to load all of the options -- and none successfully load. I also end up at...
Hi guys, as most of you will be aware with the show desktop feature in the windows, which in the system tray on bottom right of your screen. I need a tweak or registry edit to make it do "Win + M" Minimize all Windows, instead of "Win + D" show desktop. Reason is it hides my gadgets and...
As the title states, I was wondering how I would do that? Because I really want to add a custom ".tga" 'close' button to my windows theme. I am using WindowBlinds: (link) - Skin the Windows desktop interface with WindowBlinds WindowBlinds let's me edit and make my own theme by using their own...
Hello all, I'm new here, so please bare with me. I'm assuming this is the appropriate section of the forum to post this question, so here it goes.... I've just had Windows 8 Home installed over the past months, and have now come across a strange problem, which seems not uncommon from other...
So got windows 8 Dev installed so far so good, I thought I would like the left screen bump to go to last app or program used feature till I installed some games and tried to play them suddenly my left side of my screen is no good if needing to scroll to the side say in a game like Starcraft II,...
Eight Forums Android App Eight Forums IOS App Follow us on Facebook