Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

BSODs at boot time, usually boots normally after 3 reboots and repairs

  1. #11

    I'll spend some more time on this during the weekend, but for now I just wanted to add that the reboot during memtest86+ was caused by me moving the mouse, not because of whatever heavy I put down beside the laptop. It is reproducable, and apparently a known issue: Reproducible crash bug in Memtest86+ V4.10, how it happens, how to avoid it. [Archives] -

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #12

    With the reboot during memtest86 explained, that lead isn't taking us anywhere.

    Just for the sake of completion, I've tried without any usb mice connected, and I still get the same crashes as the same time. I'm currently using some logitec gaming mouse, but I've tried others as well as none, and it doesn't seem to make a difference. Unless windows installed some drivers automatically the first time, which now causes problems regardless of what's plugged in, I don't think the mouse is the problem. If any of the memory dumps/logs had pointed towards the mouse, I might have wanted to spend more time on this, but as things stand now, I don't think it's worth it. Or do you think those "USB hub" errors could be related to the mouse somehow?

    I can't find any VCore images - OCCT 4.3.1 only seem to generate those nine I posted.

    Yeah, I share your opinion on driver programs. The only reason I gave it a shot was I saw it recommended somewhere here on the forum. Probably not going to bother with it again, though.

    Bought one of those usb-driven fan boards to put your laptop on. Haven't really done a test to check the effect yet, but I'm sure it won't hurt.

    As for virtual memory, I'll probably go back to what you suggested. It's currently 1.5 times my physical memory size. (Which I think I've seen as a recommendation in some previous windows version, so I always default to that when setting it manually.)

    The way I see it, I now have a couple of options to go from here:

    1. Wait for the release of the full version of Windows 8 and/or drivers, and hope that something will fix the problem.
    2. Download, format and reinstall windows 8 again, based on the assumption that my current installation got corrupted somehow. Unlikely since previous installations have had similar problems, but perhaps installing from a dvd will work better than my usb pen. In any case, this would probably be followed by a very careful attention to what drivers I'm installing.
    3. Disassemble the whole laptop and clean it before doing step 2.
    4. Upgrade BIOS, followed by step 2 (and possibly 3).

    I haven't really made up my mind on where to start yet, and as my private life is very busy at the moment (Moving into a new apartment in about a week), I'm not sure when I'll get around to it. And I'd rather not attempt 3 or 4 until then, since I'm probably going to use the laptop a bit around then, and wouldn't risk bricking it right now low as that chance might be.

    In any case, if you have any other thoughts or suggestions, I'm open for suggestions. If not, I think I'm just going to let this issue rest for a couple of weeks.

    In either case, I'm going to report back if I figure out what the problem is, or ask more questions if not.

    Thanks for all the help so far, much appriciated.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #13

    Tropical Island Pair a Dice
    Posts : 3,030
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64/ Windows 7 Ult x64

    Sounds like a good plan.

    The Laptop cooler should help the temps.

    Let me know your progress when you get around to it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #14

    Ok, back again, unfortunately.

    I'm still having the same problem, despite having:

    1. Upgraded/downgraded the bios to F.2B (Previously F.2C - see post #8 on the last page for details.)
    2. I disassembled the laptop and removed what dust I could find using one of those canned air boxes. Found a few small dust balls, but not much.
    3. Downloaded Windows 8 again using the official upgrade assistant. Created a bootable USB stick and did a clean install.
    4. Initially, I disabled windows update to make sure no extra drivers were installed
    5. Since 4. didn't seem to make any difference, I enabled it again, downloaded the suggested drivers and a few other updates, but it still crashes exactly like before.

    Is it possible that the fans are somewhat slow to start, and thus a temperature spike during windows boot can trigger this behaviour? I have a couple of bios settings that delays windows boot by some seconds - I could experiment with those.

    Also, can you think of anything that would let me log CPU temperatures during boot? If, say, the crash occurs after windows starts services, a temperature logging service might actually be able to record it.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #15

    Tropical Island Pair a Dice
    Posts : 3,030
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64/ Windows 7 Ult x64

    Have you had anymore BSoDs?
    If you have, always post the full System File Collection and health reports.
    Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) Posting Instructions

    Good steps taken, and good info posted.
    As for fans starting slow, that is a possibility, will depend on your BIOS.
    Delay the boot and see if that helps.
    Disable Turbo mode for the CPU in BIOS, for testing, this might improve the bootup heat issue and max CPU heat.
    You can set Realtemp to run at start up, this should give some info. No program can run during boot.

    Your previous link for the memtest86+ issue specifically notes Asus and Acer BIOS, although this may be a factor.
    If memtest86+ has stopped with no mouse attached and with other different mice, this definitely indicates a RAM issue .
    If you have two RAM cards installed, take one out and run memtest86+ again, for 7 full passes, stop the test if you get any errors.
    While you are in the laptop check that the other RAM card is firmly installed.
    Also remove the USB mouse before starting the test.
    If the single RAM card passes, then swap the RAM cards and run the test again.

    I have seen a mouse or keyboard cause all kinds of BSoDs, don't rule this out.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #16

    Yeah, same bsods and black-screen lockups as I got before.

    I've done some bios changes already; I'll document those in my next post, as well as do some testing. Since each test requires some downtime on the laptop, I might not post it until tomorrow. I'll also add some info on my various bios settings.

    Running realtemp on startup probably won't do much good, I think. I was rather thinking of exploiting the fact that some services start before the user even logs on. I don't know exactly where in the boot process the crash happens (only that it occurs before user logon), so I figured that there could be a tiny chance that one or more services would have started at that point. That said, I'm quite sure that the crash occurs earlier in the boot process than this, leaving this whole point as little more than wishful thinking.

    I'll do another overnight memtest session as you suggest.

    My final suggestion would be to reinstall windows 8 from scratch, and document everything I do - especially all the crashes I get until I can actually boot windows properly for the first time. When I get to that point, I'll grab the memory dumps and post those. That should ensure that the system is as clean as it will ever get.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #17

    Tropical Island Pair a Dice
    Posts : 3,030
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64/ Windows 7 Ult x64

    Agree, running RealTemp at startup probably won't give any useful info.

    A crash at the early stages of Windows startup is usually hardware but could be a driver.
    If you haven't already, Disable all startup programs from Task Manager - Startup, except the AV (Anti-Virus).
    If it still crashes, then disable the AV.
    What AV are you using?

    Let's see what memtest86+ does.

    Is the DVD removable, some laptops have a release on the bottom that will let you take out the DVD player.
    If you can, remove it and take a look at the connector, clean, and make sure it is firmly connected.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #18

    Memtest86+ result: 19 passes without error.

    All through this thread I've been using Microsoft Security Essentials.

    Just to rule out the most likely sources for malware/trojans/viruses, etc, I've tried to:

    1. Remove and re-created all partitions on the laptop during installation.
    2. Disconnecte the laptop from the network, both wireless and ethernet, until I know MSE/ the Firewall is running.

    The laptop doesn't have an internal dvd drive, only an external one, connected via USB. Most, but not all, installations I've done has been via USB pens/sticks, however.

    Also, my current BIOS settings (the values I could actually change that weren't completely trivial):

    System Configuration:
    Virtualization Technology: Disabled
    Fan Always On: Enabled
    Fast Charge Mode: Enabled

    Boot Options:
    POST HotKey Delay (sec): 20
    Instant-On: Enabled
    Delay to Boot Windows (sec): 30

    Next week I'll describe, step by step, how the installation and boot up experience is, including crashes. More importantly, I'll note down the times when various crashes occur so that I can match those to EventLog entries afterwards.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #19

    Tropical Island Pair a Dice
    Posts : 3,030
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64/ Windows 7 Ult x64

    Good plan.

    Let us know how it's going.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #20

    Since I'm running out of ideas, I'm going to simply describe a set of installations and bootups goes. I'll add timestamps to crashes to simplify subsequent lookups in the event log.


    1. Booting from USB stick.
    2. Picking language, time and currency format as well as keyboard/input method.
    3. Entering product key & accepting license terms
    4. Custom installation (That is, not an upgrade)
    5. I delete all my partitions, and add a new c drive. Windows adds one of its own, resulting in this setup:

    a. Drive 0 partition 1: System restore.
    b. Drive 0 partition 2: 50GB C drive
    c. Drive 0 Unallocated space (for now).

    6. I install windows on the C drive.
    7. Reboot. Removing USB Stick.

    1. (18:52) Booting from disk.
    2. (18:52) Screen goes black.
    3. (19:13) Screen still black. Crash, obviously.

    1. Windows attempts to boot again, but gives the error "The computer restarted unexpectedly or encountered an unexpected error. Windows installation cannot proceed. To install Windows, click "OK" to restart the computer, then restart the installation."
    2. I click "OK" to restart, then insert the USB stick for a second attempt...


    1-7 - Identical to previous attempt

    1. (19:37) Booting from disk
    2. (19:38) Boots fine.
    3. Just to make sure nothing gets installed without my explicit permission, I disable windows update and automatic driver installation.
    4. Just for fun, I reboot.

    1. (19:47) Crash. Clock_watchdog_timeout.
    2. Automatic reboot.

    1. Windows boots fine...

    At this point I just want to demonstrate how a normal, cold boot crash usually occurs, so I shut the laptop off for an hour.


    1. (21:00) Windows booting.
    2. (21:00) Black screen.
    3. (21:11) Still black screen, forcing a reboot using the power button.
    4. (21:12) Boots fine.


    I'm not able to upload the logs tonight, but I'm fairly confident we'll only see the same errors as before anyway.

    The fact that it crashes during the first bootup after installation might be considered a confirmation that the crash isn't user triggered.

    I have a few more ideas; I'll write them up once I have a bit more time.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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BSODs at boot time, usually boots normally after 3 reboots and repairs
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