Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


BSOD WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR hal.dll+37213

  1. #11


    Posts : 14
    Win 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by usasma View Post
    Which pins on the mainboard were bent - and what were their condition?
    I'd suspect that bent pins could cause this problem under a couple of circumstances:
    - if the pins are touching one another (could result in a short circuit)
    - if the pins aren't letting a device seat in that slot (or only partially seat)
    Just plain bent pins (without any underlying damage) probably won't cause problems.

    As you have the board back, can you straighten the pins yourself (it's a very delicate job!).
    I use a credit card/stiff piece of plastic and a magnifying glass to gently push them back into place (try not to overbend them).
    On a CPU it's easy to tell if they're straight by looking down the rows of pins.

    My son had a CPU with bent pins that we sent back to NewEgg for a replacement - and they didn't argue with us about who bent them. We discussed keeping the CPU and using it (I would have straightened the pins first) and he chose to send it back. I truly can't recall if they came that way or not - but I do know what a ZIF socket is and I didn't use any force to put the CPU on the mobo.
    They weren't bent before and for sure not in a way like this: http://i.imgur.com/UBEI8pD.jpg
    But they are completely bent since I got it back, while they weren't before I sent it in (I am not THAT blind!). I also have doubts that my PC would have even been booting under these circumstances (the messed up pin on the top is actually bent outside..). I did some google research and asked on a german forum, where everyone knew about which shop I am talking without me even mentioning or hinting towards their name and many other reporting about similar problems. Even if I could bent the pins back (the way they are bent could make this be pretty hard), my mainboard would still have the same issues which caused me opening this thread. They claim they have checked my other hardware parts and they wouldn't have shown anything abnormal though. My question now was if my bluescreens could be caused by pins as messed up those are (remember: my PC was running without issues for 20h+ at times and CPU tests went without any errors). I don't think they could be, and I am also confident they were all ok before I sent them my hardware. But if you think otherwise, tell me =)
    I am now trying to argue that I have proof for it not working during the first weeks already and that bluescreens weren't the cause (therefore asking here again), also by pointing on the logs I have posted here. Their first reply via Mail came from their legal department (I messaged their technical support) indirectly threatening me that they will let this go to the court ("we have witnesses for the court that the pins were already bent"). How would you proceed in this situation? I think my best bet would be trying to prove that the issues started in the first week and weren't caused by pins..

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  2. #12


    Posts : 5,139
    Win8.1Pro - Finally!!!


    Aren't there consumer protection agencies in Germany? Can you file a complaint against them - and also cite the forums where others support your claims?

    As for going to court - they've got an army of lawyers. Can you afford to fight them? On a strictly economic viewpoint, you'll spend more on a lawyer than you will on a new motherboard. They will testify to support the person who made the observation about the pins, with a whole army of people saying "Yes, it was received from the owner with the pins bent already."

    I can't say for certain if it's the pins or not. I see more motherboard failures than I see CPU failures. But it's a fine line as the two are directly connected together. The tests that we have only test certain parts of the system - and they're only software tests (they don't actually look inside the parts).

    There are no 100% certain motherboard tests. The tests would be more expensive than the motherboard - and the manufacturer's wouldn't be able to make any money. An exact diagnosis of this problem is likely to cost you thousands of Euro's - much, much more than a new motherboard would cost.

    Say, for example, that the upper pin that is bent is only used during certain operations. If your system only does those certain operations every 20+ hours, then it'll only have a problem every 20+ hours (and that presumes that the bent pin is not functioning at all - but what if it's only partially broken?).
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  3. #13


    Posts : 14
    Win 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by usasma View Post
    Aren't there consumer protection agencies in Germany? Can you file a complaint against them - and also cite the forums where others support your claims?
    There are, gotta look into it and if that would help in some way. Ther are also laws that you can send anything back without having to explain why for the first 14days and during the first 6 months (it is 3months for me now) the seller has to prove that they didn't damage it. In the letter that came with my hardware, where it states what they tested/replaced, normally at least, they already mentioned some court rulings that would decide against me under these circumstances. With circumstances, so they explained further, it was meant that I didn't report such an obvious defect immediately, as I should have. Of course I didn't do this, because it wasn't the case before I sent it back. That's why I will just try to prove that it never was working as intended.

    Quote Originally Posted by usasma View Post
    As for going to court - they've got an army of lawyers. Can you afford to fight them? On a strictly economic viewpoint, you'll spend more on a lawyer than you will on a new motherboard. They will testify to support the person who made the observation about the pins, with a whole army of people saying "Yes, it was received from the owner with the pins bent already."
    Just how much work it is and that it seems to be regular thing for them makes me not want to do this for "just" a mainboard. The court thingy wasn't anything I mentioned either, but them, attempting to scare me away, I assume.

    Quote Originally Posted by usasma View Post
    There are no 100% certain motherboard tests. The tests would be more expensive than the motherboard - and the manufacturer's wouldn't be able to make any money. An exact diagnosis of this problem is likely to cost you thousands of Euro's - much, much more than a new motherboard would cost.

    Say, for example, that the upper pin that is bent is only used during certain operations. If your system only does those certain operations every 20+ hours, then it'll only have a problem every 20+ hours (and that presumes that the bent pin is not functioning at all - but what if it's only partially broken?).
    But doesn't the CPU need to be connected to all the pins on the motherboard? With one being bent outside it would be hard to even place the CPU properly too. There are roughly 800 pins, 4 being broken right now (they didn't seem to be in a state where they could still work, but maybe they still can? I asked some co-workers (people who studied IT) and they also thought so), which makes 0,5% of the pins not being active at all. I always thought you could not even boot under these circumstances.
    Anyway, thanks a lot for your help again! I will see how far I get with proving that it never did work, since them claiming that you have bent the pins yourself seems to be a regular thing (maybe even a strategy as some people on the forums say) and arguing about this won't get me far. They seem to be really confident in this case as long as you haven't taken pictures before and after. Kinda sucks, because I am now running 6 years old hardware and can't use anything of my new one :x Will tell you if a miracle happened and I somehow made them decide that they will offer customer service from now on!
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  4. #14


    Posts : 5,139
    Win8.1Pro - Finally!!!


    They win either way.
    If you do decide to fight, they get a bunch of people to say it's your fault - so they don't lose then.
    If you decide not to fight, it doesn't cost them anything.

    I haven't experimented with broken pins, so I don't know if it could work or not.
    I would question it myself, but I can easily afford a new motherboard - I don't know your situation, nor do I presume to tell you how to spend your money.

    Good luck to you whatever you may decide.
    Should the problems continue, feel free to post back.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #15


    Posts : 14
    Win 8.1


    New Mainboard, same old problem. Not just Bluescreens, but the exact same cause and address again. Before I used a Gigabyte H97-HD3, now it is a H87-HD3, which is pretty much the same. I am still running the same OS, but I don't feel like reinstalling it (again) will solve this bluescreen. I am only running 1x4GB RAM atm to decrease the chance of failure on that side. I also did another RAM test over night: http://puu.sh/droaR/1550f3b438.JPG (1 ERROR on the stick I am not using), http://puu.sh/drobD/39d2faacb4.JPG (0 ERRORS on the stick I am currently using). They claim they tested all the other hardware when I sent it back.. but well..
    I will do some additional extended hardware tests later today while also contacting the shop again. This also means that my suddenly broken mainboard was fine at the start.
    Last edited by 5h1n; 12 Dec 2014 at 04:26.
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  6. #16


    Posts : 5,139
    Win8.1Pro - Finally!!!


    In my shop, if we rule out everything else, then we blame the motherboard.
    We are rarely wrong because we test each component thoroughly (and the service center charges us if we send in one with a bad diagnosis).
    It's unfortunate, but there are no 100% accurate motherboard tests. Developing such a test is more expensive (for the manufacturer) than replacing the motherboard after ruling out everything else.

    I can't recall if I provided this link before: Hardware Stripdown Troubleshooting
    It's a stripdown procedure for attempting to locate failing hardware.
    Good luck!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #17


    Posts : 14
    Win 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by usasma View Post
    In my shop, if we rule out everything else, then we blame the motherboard.
    We are rarely wrong because we test each component thoroughly (and the service center charges us if we send in one with a bad diagnosis).
    It's unfortunate, but there are no 100% accurate motherboard tests. Developing such a test is more expensive (for the manufacturer) than replacing the motherboard after ruling out everything else.

    I can't recall if I provided this link before: Hardware Stripdown Troubleshooting
    It's a stripdown procedure for attempting to locate failing hardware.
    Good luck!
    I am borrowing another Hard drive today and try out if it changes anything. I will also use another power supply and then see if it helps. Don't you think it won't be the mainboard? As I said, it is a new one now, and I am still getting the same BSOD.
    I will post an update here about the results I get..
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #18


    Posts : 5,139
    Win8.1Pro - Finally!!!


    When troubleshooting by replacing parts, you have to assume that the replacement part is good.
    You can also test the part by trying it in another system that's known to be good.
    Only after trying/testing each and every part should you wonder about a replacement being bad.

    FWIW - we replace parts at work all the time, and it's a rare event that one is bad out of the box.
    But, when it does happen, it is incredibly frustrating.

    Keep a list of things that you've replaced.
    You never know which part it is.

    For example, my house got hit by lightning years ago.
    Although I had surge protectors, I didn't have surge protection on the cable for the internet.
    The lightning came in, went though the modem and router, through the network and into my son's computer. It fried the telephone modem on my son's computer.
    This device wasn't being used and wasn't connected to the telephone line. The only connection that it had was being plugged into the motherboard.
    It took me weeks of troubleshooting to finally determine that it was the problem!
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  9. #19


    Posts : 14
    Win 8.1


    Quote Originally Posted by usasma View Post
    When troubleshooting by replacing parts, you have to assume that the replacement part is good.
    You can also test the part by trying it in another system that's known to be good.
    Only after trying/testing each and every part should you wonder about a replacement being bad.

    FWIW - we replace parts at work all the time, and it's a rare event that one is bad out of the box.
    But, when it does happen, it is incredibly frustrating.

    Keep a list of things that you've replaced.
    You never know which part it is.

    For example, my house got hit by lightning years ago.
    Although I had surge protectors, I didn't have surge protection on the cable for the internet.
    The lightning came in, went though the modem and router, through the network and into my son's computer. It fried the telephone modem on my son's computer.
    This device wasn't being used and wasn't connected to the telephone line. The only connection that it had was being plugged into the motherboard.
    It took me weeks of troubleshooting to finally determine that it was the problem!
    I would replace my Power supply and my video card (if necessary) with the one I have been using for the past weeks since they are still reliable (both a couple of years old). I am also getting another HDD from work that is working for sure. I also have an older i3 CPU left but I am not sure here if this one is working (either CPU or mainboard died).
    I hope I can at least find the cause of this. After 4 months I would really like to be able to use a PC again, especially since holidays are close.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #20


    Posts : 14
    Win 8.1


    So far:
    All kinds of stress tests: Nothing.
    New mainboard: Same error.
    Different power supply: Same bluescreen
    Different video card: Same bluescreen
    Only one RAM Stick (the one that passed 12 times in Memtest86+): Same bluescreen
    Unplugging second HDD: Same bluescreen
    Using a different HDD and installing Windows again: Same bluescreen
    =/
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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BSOD WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR hal.dll+37213
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