Windows 8 in the Enterprise: Why IT pros say no

We surveyed 50 tech pros via Google plus, as well as 15 tech pros from large enterprises at the geek site I run about whether they were gearing up for a Windows 8 switch.

Out of 50 tech pros I interviewed at enterprises around the world, 41 said they had no plans to bring in Windows 8 because of learning curve issues. Many are racing to upgrade XP systems to Windows 7 now and Windows 7 sales are as brisk, or brisker, than ever - the opposite of what typically happens before a major OS release comes out.

Source

A Guy
 
I just want to say that I think it's so weird that people have issues with previous Windows UIs when boiled down, it's just the same thing but made prettier. There's not a whole lot of learning curve.

Having said that, yes, Windows 8 is a learning curve. But, I bet this is something that will go forward for at least this decade and a half with new improvements making it better, much like what happened after Windows 95. To me, I would think it could take a month for someone to get fully acquainted and familiar with Windows 8. One month of downtime to learn a new OS that will potentially be the basis of Windows for at least a decade? A very pale thing. Also pale, comparing Windows 8 to vista or ME isn't even the same ballpark.....
 

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Coke: "One month of downtime to learn a new OS that will potentially be the basis of Windows for at least a decade?"

It is OK for you working in your parent's basement at their expense to spend a month learning something new. It is quite another thing for an enterprise to have a month's downtime for its employees to come up to speed so they can do exactly what they were doing before but at a net loss.

One man month costs an enterprise in the order of $10,000 in direct costs and at least three to five times that in lost productivity. If 1000 employes spend one month of lost productivity, that adds up to four to six MILLION dollars off the bottom line. THAT is why professional IT types are so very sensitive to learning curves and why enterprises are so slow updating systems that are getting the work done. Learning curves are expensive when value is added and must be very carefully planned and executed. It is obscenely expensive when absolutely no value is added and executed simply because it is the newest thing on the block.
 

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Coke: "One month of downtime to learn a new OS that will potentially be the basis of Windows for at least a decade?"

It is OK for you working in your parent's basement at their expense to spend a month learning something new. It is quite another thing for an enterprise to have a month's downtime for its employees to come up to speed so they can do exactly what they were doing before but at a net loss.

One man month costs an enterprise in the order of $10,000 in direct costs and at least three to five times that in lost productivity. If 1000 employes spend one month of lost productivity, that adds up to four to six MILLION dollars off the bottom line. THAT is why professional IT types are so very sensitive to learning curves and why enterprises are so slow updating systems that are getting the work done. Learning curves are expensive when value is added and must be very carefully planned and executed. It is obscenely expensive when absolutely no value is added and executed simply because it is the newest thing on the block.

First off, wow, very bold assumption on your behalf as you do not know me.

Secondly, wow, very general assumption over a large swath of the enterprise.

Thirdly, I know IT types are sensitive to user leaning curves. In fact, I used to work at the hospital in my area doing data entry. The IT people there absolutely REFUSED to transition from xp to 7 because over the fact that Office 2007 caused a learning curve; even though that was years ago and people I know there have gotten used to and wouldn't go back to Office 2003.

Now, to say that going to the newest thing on the block isn't always value added, well, you don't say? If that were so, everyone would still be using xp and wouldn't be going to 7. If that were so, people would still be using Office 2003 and file based UIs instead of the Ribbon based versions. Enterprises will generally always do wave upgrades and do bits at a time over the course of a span of time as to minimize initial costs. Do you think it's really worth having to upgrade from xp to 7 in the enterprise? When the current systems and software are working fine, what's the point? If it involves an initial learning curve, some initial down time, and initial costs and downtime supporting the new OS, then why even do it?
 

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Thanks for the article lead, Bill. :)

First off, wow, very bold assumption on your behalf as you do not know me.

Secondly, wow, very general assumption over a large swath of the enterprise.

Thirdly, I know IT types are sensitive to user leaning curves. In fact, I used to work at the hospital in my area doing data entry. The IT people there absolutely REFUSED to transition from xp to 7 because over the fact that Office 2007 caused a learning curve; even though that was years ago and people I know there have gotten used to and wouldn't go back to Office 2003.

Now, to say that going to the newest thing on the block isn't always value added, well, you don't say? If that were so, everyone would still be using xp and wouldn't be going to 7. If that were so, people would still be using Office 2003 and file based UIs instead of the Ribbon based versions. Enterprises will generally always do wave upgrades and do bits at a time over the course of a span of time as to minimize initial costs. Do you think it's really worth having to upgrade from xp to 7 in the enterprise? When the current systems and software are working fine, what's the point? If it involves an initial learning curve, some initial down time, and initial costs and downtime supporting the new OS, then why even do it?

Ditto and a half, Cokie! 'At a boy! Stand your ground! I feel some of these Win 7ers are posting crap lately. They think they will save the world from what they perceive as Vista 8. Also, perhaps they all should of stuck with Windows 95. That had all of the basic enterprise programs needed.

One man month costs an enterprise in the order of $10,000 in direct costs and at least three to five times that in lost productivity. If 1000 employes spend one month of lost productivity, that adds up to four to six MILLION dollars off the bottom line. THAT is why professional IT types are so very sensitive to learning curves and why enterprises are so slow updating systems that are getting the work done. Learning curves are expensive when value is added and must be very carefully planned and executed. It is obscenely expensive when absolutely no value is added and executed simply because it is the newest thing on the block.

Lionell. I'm not IT nor a Pro in computing. I own a small building business. Because of the economy and my age (for I am nearing retirement) I'm down to 3 employees - Me, myself, and I. Although I use a PC for business, I don't consider myself a power user either. I'm a hobbyist like so many other members of the forum.

Not much info in your profile as to who you are and your career other than Windows 7 as an OS. I'll assume you work IT because the statements you posted here and others I have read on other threads. Where did you obtain your dollar costs figures from? I tried to Bing it to find information, but to no avail. Where would one find this info?

Also, if you work IT, I'll assume you work within a company budget and that must be under tremendous pressure due to the economical times. I'm quite sure if times were better that companies would consider the upgrade.
 

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Coke: "If it involves an initial learning curve, some initial down time, and initial costs and downtime supporting the new OS, then why even do it?"

If there is no added value in excess of cost for doing it, it should not be done.
 

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Hippsie,

The point I am making is a simple economic one. One should not do something without first carefully considering the cost, benefit, and consequence. Doing something simply because it is the latest and greatest thing (according to the vendor marketing BS) without that consideration is the way to fail. All action has cost and consequence. Only some actions have benefits that exceed cost. Some costs and consequences are not immediately visible. Especially the cost of lost opportunity that is experienced because of ill conceived action getting in the way.
 

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Now, to say that going to the newest thing on the block isn't always value added, well, you don't say? If that were so, everyone would still be using xp and wouldn't be going to 7.

Based on the fallacious assumption that there were no improvements in W7 (compared to XP).

If that were so, people would still be using Office 2003 and file based UIs instead of the Ribbon based versions.

I regularly read comments from people who say that exact thing (i.e. they hate the Ribbon).
 

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Hippsie,

The point I am making is a simple economic one. One should not do something without first carefully considering the cost, benefit, and consequence. Doing something simply because it is the latest and greatest thing (according to the vendor marketing BS) without that consideration is the way to fail. All action has cost and consequence. Only some actions have benefits that exceed cost. Some costs and consequences are not immediately visible. Especially the cost of lost opportunity that is experienced because of ill conceived action getting in the way.


Well thought out, rational post!

Logic is SO frustrating to some folks, it gets in the way of their agenda...cokey?:geek:
 

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What I'm not seeing here, is that WHAT we've seen so far is more geared towards the consumer space, not business nor enterprise. I cannot see a metro interface in any business environment. From what we seen, I would imagine a business's employee playing at work, and not getting anything done. As well as Microsoft is sneaky. Has anyone seen a native server O/S for Windows 8 yet? Wanna bet me, it won't contain a Metro interface, or one more geared to the business world? I think ONCE we've seen the Professional version of Windows, it will be a change up of what we are seeing here. Think about it, how many businesses you know will buy Windows Metro Professional! LoL

P.S. That's what I think would of been a better name than Windows 8. Windows Metro.
 

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I work for a large company - ballpark of 15-20 THOUSAND employees, and 90% or more of them in something other than IT.

I imagine most IT people - even old geezers like me - would "pick up" Windows 8 if/when they had to. I've been around long enough to remember how many people absolutely hated XP when it debuted. It's funny how people hung on to their "beloved" XP when Vista and then Windows 7 arrived.

99% of our PCs still run XP, and a rollout of Windows 7 is in the works. The plan is to push out Windows 7 on new PCs all in one sweep - and then five years from now those will all be replaced again. (Maybe by then we'll be ready for Windows 8? Tablets? Something else?)

So let's use some nice round numbers and conservative estimates (meaning "err on the optimistic side") for a year-long migration project to bring everyone to Windows 8:

For the sake of discussion let's assume we're only providing Windows 8 on new PCs - we are not upgrading or doing a wipe-and-reload (except maybe some PC folks doing it in limited test environments).

Let's also make the DRASTIC assumption that EVERY SINGLE CORPORATE APPLICATION IS 100% COMPATIBLE WITH THE NEW OS. (This is a real reach, at least in our company.)

You see, that last one's the clincher, folks. Erring on the conservative side again, let's say we are running 500 different coproate applications, from accounting systems to purchasing, payroll, engineering, and more.

12,000 users have to learn a new OS and the Metro interface: we'll assume that a one-day hands-on class will bring them up to speed, but we'll back that up with a Windows 8 hotline and a team of experts who can help users who need a little more one-on-one tutoring to get up to speed. So there's 96,000 hours that people spend in a classroom and not doing their normal work.

12,000 users spend one day each testing and verifying that their application works with Windows 8.

Approximately 1,000 users receive a new PC each month - so over the course of 12 months the hardware and Windows 8 rollout occurs. Another drastic assumption: they all have the same base image, and they all work perfectly. Department applications have to be installed after the PC is delivered. Each department will have an expert who can install the software, and licensing will not be an issue. Installation and configuration will be straightfoward and quick - meaning this part of the project will be trivial in terms of cost and time. (Yeah, right ...)

12,000 new PCs
96,000 hours spent in training
Let's say 20 full-time (40 hrs/week) project staff, excluding departmental "experts" who install specific applications for departmental users

Are you beginning to see what an effort this is? I'm not including here the time it takes to staff the project , develop the initial project plan, refine it, obtain buy-in from senior management and executives, and to communicate the plan to everyone at an appropriate level.

To think, then, that a major corporation will drop everything and rush to adopt Windows 8 - and even adopt it quickly - is unrealistic. Maybe in a year it might be something to consider, and maybe (optimistically, again) the go-head for a pilot project would be achieved quickly after that, but nothing with such a wide impact to the company is going to happen quickly or easily.

That's not to presume a positive or negative reception of the new OS in the corporate world. I imagine most companies will take a "wait and see" approach and move ahead only after consdering the cost and effort required. Training, testing, and rollout of a major OS upgrade isn't going to be something taken lightly - or done quickly. I'm sure there are a lot of companies out there still using XP (I see a lot of it still, just in casual observations in places I go).

Change takes time in a big organization - even if it's received with a "must have it" attitude, don't expect to suddenly see it spring up everywhere in the business world. Consumers buying a new PC won't likely have a choice, but businesses will, and they're not going to make a move without considering the impact on the company. No good business would be so foolish as to forego the assessment of need, from hardware and software to training. If Windows 8 is widely adopted, you still won't see a lot of it in the business world for several years at best.
 

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TerryE? I doubt ANY corporation will go the route of Windows 8. Plain and simple the metro interface isn't viable in a business environment. I can't imagine Microsoft NOT having a Professional version of Windows 8. Corporate America, strike that Corporate WORLD is where America makes it money, NOT by unit sales, but by license sales. ONLY problem is, Businesses take WAY to long in changing over from a O/S to the next, due to the cost of buying new equipment. Microsoft corrected that with this version of Windows.

Now it is up to the corporate world to accept, and start beta testing THEIR own programs to do what they need to run them on a more current Operating System, that will run on computers dated for Windows XP. My opinion is to completely bypass Vista, & 7 and go straight to 8.
 

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I concur about the interface but even assuming it could be bypassed or turned off in the Enterprise version, I don't think a company the size of ours is going to move very swiftly on it, for the reasons I cited earlier.

If they're already on XP and just now thinking about an upgrade, I still think the most likely direction would be Windows 7. Windows 8 isn't available for another three months (though perhaps if RTM is sooner, volume license customers might have access to it). A year from now, when the results are in from some early adopters, that could be different.

I'm a little puzzled by your post though: are you saying that while you doubt most corporations will go to Windows 8 (first paragraph), they SHOULD (as you seem to imply in your second paragraph)?

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the mad rush by businesses to get to Windows 8. :)
 

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No, what I was saying Terry is that what we have now (Consumer's version)companies won't go with. BUT depending on if a business/enterprise version comes out that they should. Sooner or later they are going to need to follow Microsoft's direction. Just basically now I can't see that happening with this iteration of metro. As well as stated that they need to get their own in-house software viable with metro. Even though this is the first O/S from Microsoft with the metro tile layout, it is a good time to get employees up to snuff learning it.
 

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I think we ALL can agree, software mitigations are a PITA in general.
 

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I work for a large company - ballpark of 15-20 THOUSAND employees, and 90% or more of them in something other than IT.

Thanks TerryE for taking time to write all that. Now this old novice is a lot less ignorant of enterprise for the steps and costs it takes for a change. :)
 

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Mike,

When/if the time comes that the enteprirse decides to adopt Windows 8, THEN they'll need to spend time educating users on it. In our case I don't see that happening for maybe five years, given that we're not even up to speed on Windows 7 at this point. In five years a lot can change, and training people sooner would be a waste of resources since people won't be using it in the workplace and will forget more than they learned by the time it does come around.

Right now there are higher priorities in our situation. I cannot speak for other companies of any size, but having been through enough of these software/OS migrations I will reiterate that it's no small - or inexpensive - effort.
 

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I concur Terry. I just hate the lead time companies use to make sure all the bugs are out of newer software/O/Ses before they decide to move up. Why the HECK do they think they have IT/IS departments for? It's our jobs to keep on the systems, and make sure they are patched. To be honest with you, *I* hated ALL the time I had to put in on XP. Worse O/S in my opinion EVER to come out of Redmond. I think all the time I spent with patching security problems with the O/S itself, I spent less time with NT4, Win95, Win 98 and 2000 Pro put together. AND that also includes the time it took for the Y2K bug as well.

EDIT: Doing beta testing now with Bull Guard software. This is totally really funny. I have one Win XP test machine. (We both know Microsoft brought it to the end of it's life, and did everything THEY will with it.) Ran the software's tune up function (Clean install before I loaded the Bull Guard onto it.) and it FOUND 339 problems with WinXP, and was only able to correct less than half of them. (136 fixed) Remembering now, this unit has EVERYTHING Microsoft made available for it, and STILL Bull Guard found that many problems with it. I actually fell off my chair laughing.
 

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That's funny and sad at the same time, Mike.

As for the lead time, yeah, that's normal, but better to take the time up front and be sure things work than have to develop workarounds or exceptions later on.

I loved XP and in fact I had it on my work PC two days after it was released. Then the corporate folks found out I had it and told me to remove it because it was "non-standard." The same thing happened to some of us who had Vista but by then I was in a different department and I was allowed to keep my "non-standard" Vista machine. (It's now a "standard" Windows 7 machine.) So, not only are companies sometimes slow to adopt new software but also reluctant at times to even allow it.
 

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Hi there
Enterprise W8 is definitely a HUGE NO NO.

The only way W8 will EVER see the light of day in large organisations is if they go through what is rapidly becoming a hugely popular idea -- Bring your OWN PC and use it to run work applications via a work VPN / LAN etc.

Note - people in these organisations don't HAVE to bring in their own equipment of course - some for all sorts of reasons will be quite happy to stay with work provided PC's -- but the number of work PC's the organisation needs to maintain can be HUGELY less than is typical now in big organisations.

This has a lot of difficulties - such as security etc but places who have implemented this usually report that the users LOVE it and of course it saves them from 1) buying huge amounts of PC's and 2) worrying about software updates on client machines.

I'm sure many people have suffered frustrations at using incredibly old outdated equipment and OS'es on a work machine when they have nice super slick fast equipment on their home gear.

By empowering users to bring in their own hardware this sort of stuff is eliminated at a stroke - but it DOES require very careful management to realize this goal.

If you can logon with whatever OS you have on your own PC to a corporate "OS Image" and can boot from "Virtual Drives" then the I.T dept only needs to maintain the "Virtual Image".

O.K it's not so simple in practice but you should see where I'm going with this.

Cheers
jimbo
 
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