New USB plug coming: Good news, bad news

Reminds me of ...

Brink said:

Cue up the extra ports and time to phase out existing hardware.
...
This new USB Type-C connector will "enable thinner and sleeker product designs, enhance usability and provide a growth path for performance enhancements for future versions of USB."

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Sound more like they are hoping it will "provide a growth path for manufacturer's profits".

Pointless changes and intangible or nebulous benefits.
Reminds me of something else ... W8.

For those of us who have been around for a few decades, new plugs are just part of the business.
Does anyone remember those HUGE SCSI connectors? Or ISA buss connectors? How about more recently, and the Parallel Printer Port connectors?

Smaller, and faster is the way this business works.

I had to add a new PCI card to my desktop, to run SATA III drives, and another new card to run USB-3.0
,,, 3.1 is just a natural. I wonder if I can buy an add-on card for that.

I just bought a 32GB stick. It is about as wide as a quarter and also appr. as thick.

An important quote from the proposed specifications.

As the new USB Type-C plug and receptacle will not directly mate with existing USB plugs and receptacles (Type-A, Type-B, Micro-B, etc.), the Type-C specification will define passive new-to-existing cables and adapters to allow users to use their existing products

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Going to need a bigger bag to carry the additional cables.


Jim

Not sure if this is related but I just got a new HP Pavilion 17-e019dx Core I3 Haswell 17 3" laptop ($399 Best Buy Cyber Monday special) I'm trying out and it has two alleged USB 3 ports and 1 confirmed USB 2 port. BUT no normal USB 2 plug will fit into the USB 3 ports! They look almost identical but it's just a tad too small to fit USB 2 plug.

Greg, if you look at the ports, are they somewhat blue inside. If yes, USB2 sticks should fit. Or maybe you need one of these guys. I have 2 of those and they are really small.

Silicon Power Touch T01 Mini 8GB USB 2.0 Flash Drive - Newegg.com

gregrocker said:

Not sure if this is related but I just got a new HP Pavilion 17-e019dx Core I3 Haswell 17 3" laptop ($399 Best Buy Cyber Monday special) I'm trying out and it has two alleged USB 3 ports and 1 confirmed USB 2 port. BUT no normal USB 2 plug will fit into the USB 3 ports! They look almost identical but it's just a tad too small to fit USB 2 plug.

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I have 2 USB 3 (blue) and two USB 2 ports on my ASUS K75DE. My USB 2 cords etc all plug into the USB 3 ports. They don't go in at all or only part way?

alphanumeric said:

gregrocker said:

Not sure if this is related but I just got a new HP Pavilion 17-e019dx Core I3 Haswell 17 3" laptop ($399 Best Buy Cyber Monday special) I'm trying out and it has two alleged USB 3 ports and 1 confirmed USB 2 port. BUT no normal USB 2 plug will fit into the USB 3 ports! They look almost identical but it's just a tad too small to fit USB 2 plug.

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I have 2 USB 3 (blue) and two USB 2 ports on my ASUS K75DE. My USB 2 cords etc all plug into the USB 3 ports. They don't go in at all or only part way?

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I don't think there is any difference in the sizes of the USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 A type plugs are the same physical size with USB 3.0 having added 4 contacts on the other side or to side that USB 2.0 do not have? USB 3.0 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia USB has different B plugs than USB 2.0 and some new configurations we didn't need with USB 2.0, the A style plugs we are all familiar with with the extra 4 contacts are so short in the Female version that it can be a problem keeping them connected. This was an issue 2 years ago. I think most of the cable manufactures have improved these contacts that we are not seeing the problem as often. I Have 3 units with USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 slots and both USB 2.0 and 3.0 fit and work interchangeably no problems of course USB 3.0 only works as USB 2.0 in a 2. port. This is true for the Standard A type ports M F B type connectors are different not compatible.

Update this excerpt for the linked Wikipedia
A USB 3.0 Standard-A receptacle accepts either a USB 3.0 Standard-A plug or a USB 2.0 Standard-A plug. Conversely, it's possible to plug USB 3.0 Standard-A plug into a USB 2.0 Standard-A receptacle. Similar principle of backwards compatibility applies to connecting USB 2.0 Standard-A plug into a USB 3.0 Standard-A receptacle. The Standard-A is used for connecting to a computer port, as the host side.
Since USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports may coexist on the same machine and they look similar, the Standard-A USB 3.0 connector has a blue insert (Pantone 300C color). The same color-coding applies to the USB 3.0 Standard-A plug.
USB 3.0 also introduced a new Micro-B cable plug, see photo on the right. It consists of a standard USB 1.x/2.0 Micro-B cable plug, with additional 5-pin plug "stacked" on side of it. That way, USB 3.0 Micro-A host connector preserved its backwards compatibility with the USB 1.x/2.0 Micro-B cable plugs.

That micro B USB plug looks like the one on my USB 3 external drive enclosure. The cable that came with it and plugs into it fits nice an tight. The extra power is nice as I don't need a separate power pack or second USB plug to get the needed power to run the drive inside it. :thumb:

alphanumeric said:

That micro B USB plug looks like the one on my USB 3 external drive enclosure. The cable that came with it and plugs into it fits nice an tight. The extra power is nice as I don't need a separate power pack or second USB plug to get the needed power to run the drive inside it. :thumb:

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Yes the micro B plug is the best the standard 3.0 B is good too. the A connectors are where the problems lie. The The connector plates are very short plugs have to be fully in the socket and some of the first cables that were produced just didn't connect well causing failures or just disconnects. I've had great luck using " Cable Matters" cables

As I sit here, I have a USB3 Flash Drive in my hand. It's a Verbatim, 32 GB.
The plastic insert is indeed Blue instead of the old familiar Black.

It's a snug fit, into a standard USB2 socket, but it does fit and it powers right up, with no problem.

I also have a 1TB External Toshiba, USB3, Hard DRIVE. It also has the blue insert in the plug and it also fits nicely in a USB2 socket and plays nicely. So, for now at least, the only difference I'm seeing with the USB3 devices is that they really are FAST when plugged into a USB3 port.

From now on, I refuse to buy any USB device that is NOT USB3. I added four USB3 ports to my old desktop PC, by putting in a PCI card with four USB3 ports on it.

That's progress!

TechnoMage said:

As I sit here, I have a USB3 Flash Drive in my hand. It's a Verbatim, 32 GB.
The plastic insert is indeed Blue instead of the old familiar Black.

It's a snug fit, into a standard USB2 socket, but it does fit and it powers right up, with no problem.

I also have a 1TB External Toshiba, USB3, Hard DRIVE. It also has the blue insert in the plug and it also fits nicely in a USB2 socket and plays nicely. So, for now at least, the only difference I'm seeing with the USB3 devices is that they really are FAST when plugged into a USB3 port.

From now on, I refuse to buy any USB device that is NOT USB3. I added four USB3 ports to my old desktop PC, by putting in a PCI card with four USB3 ports on it.

That's progress!

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Well then all you need now is USB 3.0 hub to bring one of those 4 rear ports to the front!! I'm having good success with Anker, used to be USpeed 4 port hub

TechnoMage said:

As I sit here, I have a USB3 Flash Drive in my hand. It's a Verbatim, 32 GB.
The plastic insert is indeed Blue instead of the old familiar Black.

It's a snug fit, into a standard USB2 socket, but it does fit and it powers right up, with no problem.

I also have a 1TB External Toshiba, USB3, Hard DRIVE. It also has the blue insert in the plug and it also fits nicely in a USB2 socket and plays nicely. So, for now at least, the only difference I'm seeing with the USB3 devices is that they really are FAST when plugged into a USB3 port.

From now on, I refuse to buy any USB device that is NOT USB3. I added four USB3 ports to my old desktop PC, by putting in a PCI card with four USB3 ports on it.

That's progress!

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Hi there

Note though if you have an older MB then adding a USB3 PCI card (especially if it's a PCI-E EXPRESS card) won't buy you anything like the full USB 3 speed -- the native computer BUS SPEED could be too slow -- you probably won't get a lot faster speed than a decent USB 2 speed -- so for older MB's I wouldn't recommend the USB 3 pci upgrade.

If your MB is not too old then the upgrade is worth while - but you really do need a proper FULL PCI-X card instead of the PCI-E EXPRESS junk which ARE in any case slower. A full PCI-X card is hard to find but you might be able to "cannabalize" one off an older server which is being replaced as companies start introducing Windows 2012 server systems. - Try your I.T dept at work if you work in a largish shop. So to re-iterate -- get a FULL PCI-X card rather than a PCI-E EXPRESS one for the USB3 addition.

(Note - PCI-X not bog standard PCI).

Another piece of advice -- avoid the "el cheapo" varieties -- to get anything like decent performance you need this thing to be powered (5V) so get one that can be powered by the PC with a "Molex" connector from the PSU. If you only rely on bus powering you will get very RANDOM performance -- especially if you attach a USB 3 Hub (even if the HUB itself is mains powered). !!!!/

A USB3 device though plugged into a USB 2 port will probably perform better than a standard USB 2 device since it will EASILY run at full USB 2 speed so even if you don't have any USB 3 ports it's still worth buying USB 3 devices compared with the USB 2 ones.

(Adapter cables will soon appear for mini / new USB 3 connectors ===>standard connector).

Cheers
jimbo

TechnoMage said:

As I sit here, I have a USB3 Flash Drive in my hand. It's a Verbatim, 32 GB.
The plastic insert is indeed Blue instead of the old familiar Black.

It's a snug fit, into a standard USB2 socket, but it does fit and it powers right up, with no problem.

I also have a 1TB External Toshiba, USB3, Hard DRIVE. It also has the blue insert in the plug and it also fits nicely in a USB2 socket and plays nicely. So, for now at least, the only difference I'm seeing with the USB3 devices is that they really are FAST when plugged into a USB3 port.

From now on, I refuse to buy any USB device that is NOT USB3. I added four USB3 ports to my old desktop PC, by putting in a PCI card with four USB3 ports on it.

That's progress!

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Some laptop/desktop OEMs just "luv" to clobber their customers with custom plugs for universal specs--like USB, for instance. Yea, the USB 2.0 plug *ought* to fit into the 3.0 slot perfectly as the 3.0 standard is specifically designed to be physically backwards-compatible with 2.0 devices--except "sometimes" when the OEM wants to sneak in a "mini" jack of some kind or worse still--a custom jack that *nobody* else uses or makes--which serves of the purpose of forcing the poor customer back to the OEM for his cables and peripherals, which more often than not are more costly than they should be. But that's the plan.

Building your own Windows desktop today with handpicked components is less difficult than building a Lincoln log cabin with Lego blocks, imo... Do that, and you can avoid 100% of this non-standard stuff clipping your pocketbook and your good sense.

I think USB is "OK" in that I think it's better than Firewire (but who knows where Fw might have gone had Apple not held on to it for so long as a license-only tech?)--but it's strictly cpu-powered, remember--which is fine if you aren't doing anything else with your cpu cycles... The faster the USB performance is, the more cpu cycles it sucks up. By contrast, today's commonplace Intel and AMD IDE/ACHI/RAID controllers are on a par with SCSI in that they generally use less than 5% of the cpu even when running at full speed. This leaves your cpu cycles available for other things that you might consider more important. I much prefer that to USB drives for that reason.

Also, we certainly don't need to plug our mice and keyboards into USB 3.0 slots, right? Talk about overkill....!