Windows 8 will be 'largely irrelevant' to traditional PC users: IDC

Summary: IDC’s top 10 system software predictions for 2012 are out. One of them casts doubt on Microsoft’s potential market for Windows 8 among traditional PC users.

It’s that time of year: The time when prognosticators get out their crystal balls and make predictions.

The researchers at IDC have just released to their clients their “Worldwide System Infrastructure Software 2012 Top 10 Predictions.” (Al Gillen Program VP, System Software, tweeted the list of ten on December 2.)

One of those predictions caught my eye: “Windows 8 Will Launch with Split Success.”

Windows 8 will be 'largely irrelevant' to traditional PC users: IDC | ZDNet
 
I've read this this week and I think it's such crap. Largely due to the fact that some think that Windows 8 isn't suitable for an enterprise environment based on that Metro apps and Tiles change up a tool that has been used for 20 some years: the interface. That's great and all, but they need to realize that IT admins have the ability to limit access most likely to the Windows Store and can easily unpin or uninstall Metro apps so the main component left is a Start Screen and a Desktop, not an interface intended for tablet users. Those "predictors" need to realize that Windows itself is adaptable and the Start Screen as well...
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
I've read this this week and I think it's such crap. Largely due to the fact that some think that Windows 8 isn't suitable for an enterprise environment based on that Metro apps and Tiles change up a tool that has been used for 20 some years: the interface. That's great and all, but they need to realize that IT admins have the ability to limit access most likely to the Windows Store and can easily unpin or uninstall Metro apps so the main component left is a Start Screen and a Desktop, not an interface intended for tablet users. Those "predictors" need to realize that Windows itself is adaptable and the Start Screen as well...

I disagree. Windows 8 is totally irrelevant for the enterprise. The metro style interface is a hindrance and the rest of the minor improvements are not worth the cost and hassle of upgrading.

Win8 will also be a flop in the tablet space. Consumers are gravitating to tablets worth $200 or less. This price point is simply impossible for Windows tablets. They would be left to compete with the iPad where they do not stand a chance.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 7
I've read this this week and I think it's such crap. Largely due to the fact that some think that Windows 8 isn't suitable for an enterprise environment based on that Metro apps and Tiles change up a tool that has been used for 20 some years: the interface. That's great and all, but they need to realize that IT admins have the ability to limit access most likely to the Windows Store and can easily unpin or uninstall Metro apps so the main component left is a Start Screen and a Desktop, not an interface intended for tablet users. Those "predictors" need to realize that Windows itself is adaptable and the Start Screen as well...

Win8 will also be a flop in the tablet space. Consumers are gravitating to tablets worth $200 or less. This price point is simply impossible for Windows tablets. They would be left to compete with the iPad where they do not stand a chance.

I disagree with that part about the tablets. If ARM tablet makers can get their prices down to 200 or less, having Windows on that would be rather competitive. Of course the price for said 200 dollar tablet would be more 300 or so, but if that means having a Windows operating system that can do what android does but MUCH better and prettier, it can stand against the imaxipad. android tablet manufacturers are getting slaughtered by the ipad because android is such a cruddy system to use for a tablet. They'd much rather use a Windows product that people already know of and can use rather easily for touch. That's Windows 8, and I'm willing to bet that people would pay 300 dollars for a Windows slate versus a 500 dollar ipad.

For the enterprise front, Metro doesn't prove to be a hindrance if configured in such a way. It really doesn't matter so much I'd think. A metro app is designed to be full screen and integrate well with the operating system. If one were to transition a fleet of xp machines to a new operating system, 8 would be the most logical choice, there's the Windows ID login choice, fast user switching, better performance on older machines compared to 7, and the overall feeling of the best and latest software. Of course there are the user interface complaints initially, but when are there not?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
I disagree with that part about the tablets. If ARM tablet makers can get their prices down to 200 or less, having Windows on that would be rather competitive. Of course the price for said 200 dollar tablet would be more 300 or so, but if that means having a Windows operating system that can do what android does but MUCH better and prettier, it can stand against the imaxipad. android tablet manufacturers are getting slaughtered by the ipad because android is such a cruddy system to use for a tablet. They'd much rather use a Windows product that people already know of and can use rather easily for touch. That's Windows 8, and I'm willing to bet that people would pay 300 dollars for a Windows slate versus a 500 dollar ipad.

For the enterprise front, Metro doesn't prove to be a hindrance if configured in such a way. It really doesn't matter so much I'd think. A metro app is designed to be full screen and integrate well with the operating system. If one were to transition a fleet of xp machines to a new operating system, 8 would be the most logical choice, there's the Windows ID login choice, fast user switching, better performance on older machines compared to 7, and the overall feeling of the best and latest software. Of course there are the user interface complaints initially, but when are there not?

Win8 in ARM is not really Windows. It would run nothing else but the Metro-style apps!! yikes!!! Who is going to buy them? Is Microsoft capable of creating the iTunes environment. I do not think so. Not in less than a year, that's for sure. Android tablets would be cheaper and have much more content. Kindle Fire (including the new enhance models) or Win8 in ARM? Is this even a contest? My personal guess is that Win8 in ARM is going to be a disaster of major proportions.

Win8 in Intel hardware for tablets would be too expensive for the average consumer. It is going to be an enterprise solution, at best. These tablets would be anywhere between $600 to $1000. Again, there would be competing against ultrabooks and I can tell you what will win here: ultrabooks. I do not see a winning scenario for Microsoft.

Read your arguments above and see why Win8 would be a failure in the enterprise. Why would one buy a system that one needs to work around some of its components? What are "full screen" applications doing in a windowing operating system? I depend on the windowing interface for dozens of the tasks that I perform every day. I need "full screen" applications like a need a hole in the head. They are a hindrance. You would see most corporations requesting Win7 on new machines, not Win8. Sure, there are some minor advances in Win8 but none of which (like the memory handling) that MS cannot enable in Win7 with a service pack.

Overall, my assessment is the same as most of the various think tanks. Win8 would be worse for MS than Vista. MS, instead of building on Win7 and delivering a robust enhancement of an excellent desktop system, it went totally bonkers creating a version mainly for tablets. Essentially, it is trying to push its mobile OS by making consumers aware of it in the desktop. It will not work. My guess is that it would be rejected wholesale. I have been enthusiastic proponent of Windows and have installed all the betas and previews since Win3.1 (in fact, since Win 1.0!!!) but this "vandalism" of the OS is just painful. As you can see from this forum, I am not alone. Most users, even here, give it thumbs down. And these are the enthusiasts. It would flop worse among the general public.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 7
I disagree with that part about the tablets. If ARM tablet makers can get their prices down to 200 or less, having Windows on that would be rather competitive. Of course the price for said 200 dollar tablet would be more 300 or so, but if that means having a Windows operating system that can do what android does but MUCH better and prettier, it can stand against the imaxipad. android tablet manufacturers are getting slaughtered by the ipad because android is such a cruddy system to use for a tablet. They'd much rather use a Windows product that people already know of and can use rather easily for touch. That's Windows 8, and I'm willing to bet that people would pay 300 dollars for a Windows slate versus a 500 dollar ipad.

For the enterprise front, Metro doesn't prove to be a hindrance if configured in such a way. It really doesn't matter so much I'd think. A metro app is designed to be full screen and integrate well with the operating system. If one were to transition a fleet of xp machines to a new operating system, 8 would be the most logical choice, there's the Windows ID login choice, fast user switching, better performance on older machines compared to 7, and the overall feeling of the best and latest software. Of course there are the user interface complaints initially, but when are there not?

Win8 in ARM is not really Windows. It would run nothing else but the Metro-style apps!! yikes!!! Who is going to buy them? Is Microsoft capable of creating the iTunes environment. I do not think so. Not in less than a year, that's for sure. Android tablets would be cheaper and have much more content. Kindle Fire (including the new enhance models) or Win8 in ARM? Is this even a contest? My personal guess is that Win8 in ARM is going to be a disaster of major proportions.

Win8 in Intel hardware for tablets would be too expensive for the average consumer. It is going to be an enterprise solution, at best. These tablets would be anywhere between $600 to $1000. Again, there would be competing against ultrabooks and I can tell you what will win here: ultrabooks. I do not see a winning scenario for Microsoft.

Read your arguments above and see why Win8 would be a failure in the enterprise. Why would one buy a system that one needs to work around some of its components? What are "full screen" applications doing in a windowing operating system? I depend on the windowing interface for dozens of the tasks that I perform every day. I need "full screen" applications like a need a hole in the head. They are a hindrance. You would see most corporations requesting Win7 on new machines, not Win8. Sure, there are some minor advances in Win8 but none of which (like the memory handling) that MS cannot enable in Win7 with a service pack.

Overall, my assessment is the same as most of the various think tanks. Win8 would be worse for MS than Vista. MS, instead of building on Win7 and delivering a robust enhancement of an excellent desktop system, it went totally bonkers creating a version mainly for tablets. Essentially, it is trying to push its mobile OS by making consumers aware of it in the desktop. It will not work. My guess is that it would be rejected wholesale. I have been enthusiastic proponent of Windows and have installed all the betas and previews since Win3.1 (in fact, since Win 1.0!!!) but this "vandalism" of the OS is just painful. As you can see from this forum, I am not alone. Most users, even here, give it thumbs down. And these are the enthusiasts. It would flop worse among the general public.

You say that you've used Windows since version 1. There are people that went from MS-DOS to 1. That's been the biggest change to an operating system since the graphical interface. There are some people that still hold onto keyboard commands though graphically would be easier. Windows 8 on ARM is like that. Going from commands to graphics must have been a serious transition but it was still an operating system, just that it wasn't called Windows. ARM tablets will obviously only run Metro apps, but there most likely will be a Desktop left, it just might not be used as much. That isn't such a bad thing. I mean, I know people that have literally told me they have never used the Start Menu in Windows 7 ever. That's a component of Windows they don't use so going to a Start Screen wouldn't be so bad.

Have you used an android tablet? They are just flat out awful for touch! It's the same problem as with the phones, there are many versions out there and many different setups and customizations. I wouldn't doubt the Metro App market, the Windows Phone 7 has been out for only a year, hasn't had a lot of market attention, but has more than 40,000 different apps available and this was coming from Windows Mobile 6.5 and in a year, that many apps out.

Intel I bet would work on lower powered Atom processors to beat out ARM, but Intel ARM systems would be expensive, Intel's Intel, price is in the name. NVIDIA and I think AMD are working on lower powered processors as well. If major hardware manufacturers are gearing their R&D for Windows 8 tablets to fulfill tablet manufacturers needs for a Windows tablet, that's something in itself.

In enterprise, some work around features of Windows, minutely compared to potentially 8. Some install software that at every restart wipes Windows of any changes. A major function of Windows is to let people personalize changes. With 8, some enterprises might embrace whole heartedly metro apps than others. Some might deploy Windows 8 tablets over ipads based off capabilities and software that people have used for literally decades. If you look at some examples of Metro apps, they can be used by shipping companies to track deliveries in an app that makes you feel like that device is solely built to track packages. Some companies might deploy that potential People hub app to keep in contact with clients, the list goes on and on. Metro isn't a bad thing, it's adaptable, like Windows itself.

As for Microsoft deploying Windows on a new form factor, look at laptops. They did that with I believe 95 or 98 because laptops were the latest form factor. And as with tablets, they got flack for being underpowered piles of poo. That was true, and Microsoft adapted Windows, like vista theoretically, to work better with laptops than xp. And with 7, they refined that process to work on netbooks.

If you look at some user data, people have shifted from wanting a Windows tablet to an ipad. Maybe because they perceive Windows on a tablet to be a desktop. I don't know about you, but using Windows 7 on a touch monitor is flat out a workout to get windows positioned correctly and settings changed easily. Those are 23 inch monitors, image that on 7 inches. Metro solves that. Windows 8 solves that. Microsoft has gone from a standing where at a time, their product dominated operating system usage at near 75 percent, it's now less than that. They're being beat out by apple and android over a product they pioneered in: operating systems. They can't strive in a market where people only want a Desktop interface, they know how to cater to both enterprise and consumer. They even talk about both in their blog about Windows 8.


I understand that Metro to some is too much. I understand that the enthusiasts here don't like it much. But these are some of the same people that didn't initially like the Windows 7 Taskbar because it didn't behave as previous versions. After a week, or two, or even a month, those same people wouldn't even dare to think about going back to xp. Metro will take time to fully appreciate. It takes time to understand that Metro design is about being modern, and integrated, and consistent. It makes an app for the associated press feel like it was built into the system, though it was not. It gives an all around feel of consistency, just like every other version of Windows, it was upgraded to stay fairly consistent. We don't live in times anymore for that. It's time for major changes and reconsiderations of a product based off a 16 year old model.

Oh, one last thing, Microsoft rarely ever puts new features in service packs, it's a clever business model! :cool:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
There most likely will be a desktop but I had doubts about the Metro but I'm not totally against it. First of all, I don't use iPhones or iPads cause I can't multitask there and I don't use tablets either.

The biggest pain with this Metro is the multitasking issue. How do you multi task with this thing they way you do with windowed applications? A majority of users are now happy on how they multitask with the desktop, they can do a lot of things at once and this Metro thing is just looking like some accessory for a lot of desktop users who are used on the way the desktop behaves right now. Even things like uninstallers appear as a tile which is not making things neat. Yes, some people had trouble adjusting to changes but changes on Windows 7's taskbar was a good design for me and its wasn't far from the way the desktops of Vista or XP behaved. In fact Windows 7's taskbar was customizable to behave like Vista's or XP's. Smaller changes are easier to adjust to but such huge changes like the addition of the Metro is gonna be pain for more people especially those that have trouble accepting huge changes and people like me who don't use tablets or touchscreens.

The Metro doesn't seem to be too appealing on the enterprise either. People on offices are used with their keyboards and mice and it seems unlikely that normal enterprises with spend a lot of money upgrading not only the OS they use but also upgrading to touchscreen computers. That's too much for the budget. Its hard to imagine how to use MS Word or Excel inside the metro. Why spend on something you will need TIME to adjust to? On something that will make multitasking harder for you? If Windows 7 on these business machines can do all or most of the important things Windows 8 can, there's no or little point in upgrading, a reason why sales for Windows 8 may not be as booming as expected. They understand far better better than me about computers but they must understand that more people rely on desktops and laptops than tablets. The computing world is still more reliant on desktops and laptops than tablets and I expect that for some years to come. We can't stop change but changes will be more bearable if it happens one step at a time. Huge changes can be hard for us.

I had a feeling that the people who usually approve of the Metro are tablet+Windows fanboys.

If I will be allowed to suggest things I wanted with Windows 8:

1. Keep all the cool improvements on memory management plus the new apps like the improved task manager and native PDF reader. Also the system reset option is nice. We've seen them to exist, may they make more tweaks for everything else that needs tweaking.

2. Windows 8 should have at least a desktop dominant environment. If they are gonna put the Metro, make a separate button on it on the taskbar that takes you from the desktop to the Metro interface and vice versa.

3. Metro apps should have minimize and close buttons for task switching.

4. Windows should still be able to dual boot with other non Windows operating systems.

The build we saw is just a developer's preview but we have mixed reactions. Lets hope the beta will be a lot better for most of us. If there's anything certain, MS is putting a huge gamble on Windows 8.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Built
You say that you've used Windows since version 1. There are people that went from MS-DOS to 1. That's been the biggest change to an operating system since the graphical interface. There are some people that still hold onto keyboard commands though graphically would be easier. ....
This is the most common argument of the Metro defenders. Since I have been around too long, maybe I am resistant to change. Not true. In fact, I am excited about advances in technology. I just do not see Metro as any advance in technology. I see it as a tired, irrelevant, and misplaced effort in the wrong direction. I believe that it is totally irrelevant in the desktop and MS is trying to foist it on us to then push other form factors.

Have you used an android tablet? They are just flat out awful for touch! It's the same problem as with the phones, there are many versions out there and many different setups and customizations. .....
Yes, I have used an android tablet. Some are excellent. Check the reviews of the new Asus Android table. By the way, I have a fantastic Android phone, the Galaxy SII Skyrocket. Far more advanced that WP 7.5 at this stage. I would have loved to buy a WP 7.5 phone but it is not "there" yet. In fact, in many areas, its usability is far lower than that of even a middling Android phone. I very much dislike highly managed environments like WP 7.5 with its closed file system and other restrictions. Android is much closer to a Windows person than WP 7.5 which is really a closed, consumer-oriented, limited system.

In enterprise, some work around features of Windows, minutely compared to potentially 8. Some install software that at every restart wipes Windows of any changes. A major function of Windows is to let people personalize changes. With 8, some enterprises might embrace whole heartedly metro apps than others. Some might deploy Windows 8 tablets over ipads based off capabilities and software that people have used for literally decades. If you look at some examples of Metro apps, they can be used by shipping companies to track deliveries in an app that makes you feel like that device is solely built to track packages. Some companies might deploy that potential People hub app to keep in contact with clients, the list goes on and on. Metro isn't a bad thing, it's adaptable, like Windows itself.
Sorry, I had to laugh with the above. A Metro-style app would never be able to compete with a desktop app like Salesforce. In fact, every single desktop applications would be far superior to these "full screen", brain-dead, Metro-style apps. Full screen? Are we now regressing to good old MS-DOS days? And you are supporting this idiocy??? I am astounded.

If you look at some user data, people have shifted from wanting a Windows tablet to an ipad. Maybe because they perceive Windows on a tablet to be a desktop. I don't know about you, but using Windows 7 on a touch monitor is flat out a workout to get windows positioned correctly and settings changed easily. Those are 23 inch monitors, image that on 7 inches. Metro solves that. Windows 8 solves that. Microsoft has gone from a standing where at a time, their product dominated operating system usage at near 75 percent, it's now less than that. They're being beat out by apple and android over a product they pioneered in: operating systems. They can't strive in a market where people only want a Desktop interface, they know how to cater to both enterprise and consumer. They even talk about both in their blog about Windows 8.
Working with a touch monitor on the desktop is nowhere near ergonomic or efficient. In fact, I believe it is a serious impediment in to doing some real work.


I understand that Metro to some is too much. I understand that the enthusiasts here don't like it much. But these are some of the same people that didn't initially like the Windows 7 Taskbar because it didn't behave as previous versions. After a week, or two, or even a month, those same people wouldn't even dare to think about going back to xp. Metro will take time to fully appreciate. It takes time to understand that Metro design is about being modern, and integrated, and consistent. It makes an app for the associated press feel like it was built into the system, though it was not. It gives an all around feel of consistency, just like every other version of Windows, it was upgraded to stay fairly consistent. We don't live in times anymore for that. It's time for major changes and reconsiderations of a product based off a 16 year old model.
Being around, I can tell you that the Metro-design is what the word says, it is actually old. It is much older and much less efficient than icons. It is plainly inefficient. In fact, if you see Android 4.0 you would see why Metro is simply stupid. Android 4.0 (ICS) allows for a far more flexibility with widgets (hubs), icons, that can all be mixed up, resized and interactive. It is a far more advanced notion of an interface than Metro. Metro reminds me of interfaces that had a brief time in the sun in the 1980's.

In fact, Android 4.0 builds on the promise of the Win7 desktop. In this desktop, with icons, the taskbar and the desktop gadgets, users could mix interface elements that provided some real advances to work. Now, with Microsoft trying to commit suicide, this flexible notion of an interface has been adopted by Android and Microsoft has regressed into providing a very stolid and (personally) visually unappealing inteface (full screen???? Really???)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 7
What ADRz says make a lot of sense to me.

Why would a enterprise upgrade from W7 to W8, only to disable the metro interface and be left with what is basicly W7?
Why doesn't MS go the same route as apple and google and offer a WP7 tablet version? Makes so much more sense.

In the end "windows" and "full screen only apps" is a contradiction of terms.
We will have to see what happens. Only hope for MS that W8 will not be another Vista: good intention, bad execution.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    xp, vista, 7, 8dp, ubuntu, osx
What ADRz says make a lot of sense to me.

Why would a enterprise upgrade from W7 to W8, only to disable the metro interface and be left with what is basicly W7?
Why doesn't MS go the same route as apple and google and offer a WP7 tablet version? Makes so much more sense.

In the end "windows" and "full screen only apps" is a contradiction of terms.
We will have to see what happens. Only hope for MS that W8 will not be another Vista: good intention, bad execution.

Boris, I had to laugh with MS descriptions of these full screen applications: "immersive"!!! I guess they could not think of a better term like "brain-dead". Well, a full-screen app is certain immersive as there is nothing else for the user to do!!! LOL
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 7
I agree, full screen apps are pain. I don't want full screen apps, I still want windowed apps that I can multitask with and I'm sure many want that as well, why didnt they just made a separate version of this operating system for tablets then?

I still want a solid desktop system but with improved performance which is faster and tweaks to the existing preinstalled apps. The native PDF reader and the improved task manager are examples of this. I want a system that is more secure and less prone to bugs and crashes not a tiled environment with full screen apps that made things harder if I'm not using touchscreen.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Built
I agree, full screen apps are pain. I don't want full screen apps, I still want windowed apps that I can multitask with and I'm sure many want that as well, why didnt they just made a separate version of this operating system for tablets then?

I still want a solid desktop system but with improved performance which is faster and tweaks to the existing preinstalled apps. The native PDF reader and the improved task manager are examples of this. I want a system that is more secure and less prone to bugs and crashes not a tiled environment with full screen apps that made things harder if I'm not using touchscreen.

Maybe we get all of that in Win9...just maybe.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    windows 7
I don't quite get how people seem to be flat out rejecting Metro design altogether. A WP7 tablet would seem nice, but if you look at google and apple tablets, you're buying simply either a giant itouch or a giant android phone without calling capability. A WP7 tablet would be a giant WP7 without the calling.

And I don't understand that some people seem to think the days of power using of the Desktop is gone. It's not. It's been more into something else. Hmm, can some of you show me how you've configured your Start Screen?...
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
Many of us reject it simply because many of us are desktop users not tablet fanboys. We are used to multi task with the desktop in home and office use. Many of us don't want full screen apps (like those in the Metro) to make things harder because full screen apps ruin multitasking and make navigation harder since we use keyboards and mice, not touchscreen monitors or displays like those in tablets. Unfamiliarity with the Metro and the somewhat few new features added on Windows 8 over Windows 7 is a reason why I see less people to upgrade to Windows 8 than expected IF the current standing of Windows 8's design were to remain. I just hope it doesn't turn out that way in the beta or RC or on the final version.

If XP was a success, Vista wasn't, Windows 7 was so far best, if that pattern continues, its not looking too bright for Windows 8. Lets hope it doesn't turn out like Vista.

What I don't understand is why would MS gamble on design change that could obviously cripple the ease of use for many users and why would some others still approve the way that design is.

I don't want a tablet, I just want a solid desktop PC.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Built
This has been a great post to read, I take my HaT off to you all for your opinions -iii-
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    W7/WCPR
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Compaq dc7600 MiniTower
    CPU
    Pentiun P4 3.20GHz
    Motherboard
    HP
    Memory
    2G
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT
    Sound Card
    HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    SAMSUNG 48"
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    WDC 500G ATA
I don't quite get how people seem to be flat out rejecting Metro design altogether. A WP7 tablet would seem nice, but if you look at google and apple tablets, you're buying simply either a giant itouch or a giant android phone without calling capability. A WP7 tablet would be a giant WP7 without the calling.

And I don't understand that some people seem to think the days of power using of the Desktop is gone. It's not. It's been more into something else. Hmm, can some of you show me how you've configured your Start Screen?...

I think that the reason for the rejection of Metro by desktop users is obvious. It is a hindrance. Its "full screen" apps inhibit multitasking and windowing (which helps productivity). It may be good in tablets, but this is a very different environment.

As things are, Win8 on ARM tablets is really not even a giant phone without calling. There is nothing behind, not a rich environment of apps and content. Wi8 on Intel tablets will be just too expensive for the average consumer.

Instead of this monomaniac chase of a non-opportunity, MS should have worked hard to make the desktop a very compelling environment; they could have concentrated on a smaller footprint OS for tablets. Instead, they are even talking about moving Win8 to the phones too!!!
 

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I think it's entirely possible MS is not concerned about desktop users with this OS. They still have Windows Seven which is an unqualified hit. They need to get into the portable/tablet market which is where the new movement has been. If they had done this after Vista which has such a negative connotation, they would have been shooting themselves in the foot. But since the newer generations of users are being weened on tablets and phones, they will find it all so familiar on a disktop or laptop. In fact, "hey a bigger screen" for them.

If Eight turns out to have a satisfactory desktop interface as well, then they will pick up some users switching form XP/Vista who don't want to use an older version (Seven) despite the fact that it is more then relevant. People aren't going to dump windows for something else, they'll just stick to/switch to Seven instead. MS gets it's "mobile" OS, and latches on to "the future". While we geeks may be disappointed as we (well you :)) like to play with a new OS, it would be akin to MS saying we are coming out with a new mobile OS, and not make it seem like it is the replacement for Seven. By not stating as such, they are leaving that possibility open.

A Guy
 

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Another thing I think is being misrepresented here is that Metro means keyboards and mice are useless. What?! The only thing that has made them somewhat irrelevant is that Windows Explorer has a ribbon and has all the keyboard shortcuts graphically. It's the same thing that happened with Office 2007. People didn't like it since it had so much upfront and all the menus that power users used were gone. But those menus were introduced initially because people couldn't remember keyboard shortcuts.

As for mice, they're still used. In fact, navigating between Metro apps is actually superior as of now than touch since you can use a scroll wheel to switch to a specific app instead of shuffling through a bunch of apps.

The whole reason why Metro design was introduced for Windows 8 was because the Desktop really can't be developed any further. Microsoft could had made the Desktop to look like Windows 3.1 with giant windows and little information displayable. They didn't, they meshed a new interface with the Desktop. Even then, I think it better manages installed programs better than previous versions since you visually see everything and easily navigate through the Start Screen. The desktop of Windows 8 is literally just of 7 with a Metro sidebar when you use the Charms bar or click on the network tray icon. Speaking of such, I think the sidebar for the networking is much better because for laptops and other mobile devices that bounce off wifi, some people are in places where there's just a plethora of networks and you have to scroll like made to get on one.

Speaking of android 4, I've seen some screenshots and seen the visual animations of it, it goes to show how much google sucks on others' ideas. I've seen some Metro design of it in the settings menus based of the WP7. Metro design is coming everywhere. Google has done it, facebook has done it, it's in Office 2010 and Live Essentials 2011, just the essence of Metro design is in youtube, it's obviously in IE 9. Software design has gone from unnecessary visual fluff from Windows vista to the android phone. It's superfluous. Metro design is everything in every vision of the future: simplistic. It's natural of human beings, we want simplicity. We want a simple government that works, we want to live a simple life, we want to use interfaces that are simply designed.

I don't know, some people obviously won't accept change even though the benefits outweigh the cons....
 

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Another thing I think is being misrepresented here is that Metro means keyboards and mice are useless. What?! The only thing that has made them somewhat irrelevant is that Windows Explorer has a ribbon and has all the keyboard shortcuts graphically. It's the same thing that happened with Office 2007. People didn't like it since it had so much upfront and all the menus that power users used were gone. But those menus were introduced initially because people couldn't remember keyboard shortcuts.

As for mice, they're still used. In fact, navigating between Metro apps is actually superior as of now than touch since you can use a scroll wheel to switch to a specific app instead of shuffling through a bunch of apps.

The whole reason why Metro design was introduced for Windows 8 was because the Desktop really can't be developed any further. Microsoft could had made the Desktop to look like Windows 3.1 with giant windows and little information displayable. They didn't, they meshed a new interface with the Desktop. Even then, I think it better manages installed programs better than previous versions since you visually see everything and easily navigate through the Start Screen. The desktop of Windows 8 is literally just of 7 with a Metro sidebar when you use the Charms bar or click on the network tray icon. Speaking of such, I think the sidebar for the networking is much better because for laptops and other mobile devices that bounce off wifi, some people are in places where there's just a plethora of networks and you have to scroll like made to get on one.

Speaking of android 4, I've seen some screenshots and seen the visual animations of it, it goes to show how much google sucks on others' ideas. I've seen some Metro design of it in the settings menus based of the WP7. Metro design is coming everywhere. Google has done it, facebook has done it, it's in Office 2010 and Live Essentials 2011, just the essence of Metro design is in youtube, it's obviously in IE 9. Software design has gone from unnecessary visual fluff from Windows vista to the android phone. It's superfluous. Metro design is everything in every vision of the future: simplistic. It's natural of human beings, we want simplicity. We want a simple government that works, we want to live a simple life, we want to use interfaces that are simply designed.

I don't know, some people obviously won't accept change even though the benefits outweigh the cons....

We disagree profoundly. You have made a number of statements that I believe to be incorrect.

(a) Opponents of metro believe that keyboards and mice are rendered useless
(b) The desktop cannot be developed any further.

None of these assumptions are true. The opponents of metro are not worried about keyboards and mice. They are worried about a useless interface. Also, to believe that the desktop cannot be developed any further is simply crazy. In fact, one can come up with dozens of new ideas of how to enhance the desktop. I think that Android 4.0 shows the way pretty well.

Now, I have a very cynical view as to why MS decided to inflict metro on all of us. MS figured out that one of the key reasons of Apple's success with the iPad is that the public had been conditioned to iOs interface from the iPhone. Thus, MS figured out that if they conditioned the public to the Metro interface in the desktop and laptop, then this stupid public would be more apt to buying MS tablets and phones. It is as simple as this. MS is leveraging its position in the desktop to push its products in other markets.

Of course, we strongly disagree on the utility of Metro. But even this is not my major problem. I disagree with the whole notion of "touch first". The moment one begins designing programs and screens for "touch first", then one needs to dumb down the desktop since all elements have to become bigger in order to be touched. This is clearly exemplified by the dumbed down screens of Win8 developers preview. So, it is not just metro, it is the whole idea of "touch first" and what this means to data and command presentation.

Also, please stop deluding yourself that those who are opposed to Metro are simply resistant to change. This is not so.
 

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  • OS
    windows 7
I too see the ribbon UI seems not so good. I am strongly defending my view that "fullscreen" Metro apps just ruin the way multitasking used to work for us. I am not a fan of iPhones cause I just can't multitask there like on Windows.

@ ADRz, if your suspicion is true that MS is trying to push users to use their tablets and phones, maybe they are still confident enough that Windows 7 will continue to dominate the Desktop and laptop worlds for years to come. However, we believe this isn't the right thing for them to do. Doubts about this Metro thing alone can significantly affects user interest on Windows 8.


The desktop can be developed further. You know, I had this little imagination of floating windows of opened programs that float on the desktop that when clicked or touched or touched on a touchscreen monitor spans near you.

Why don't they just make a separate button on the taskbar that takes you to the Metro instead of combining the Metro with the Start Menu? I think I've seen something like this on an Android.
 

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