Microsoft COO Kevin Turner refuses to lose

Turner said that Microsoft's ecosystem, which builds Windows devices and mobile apps, is 18 to 24 months behind where he wants it to be, but it is "catching up."

Source: Microsoft COO Kevin Turner refuses to lose | Microsoft - CNET News

COO Kevin Turner finally let slip exactly what they mean by 'devices and services', and the desktop is apparently not included in that.

What he's going to find is not only will they not make inroads with tablet devices with that strategy, but they're more than likely going to cheese off the remaining developers on the PC side along with most of the users. About the only way it would work is if they overhauled mobile apps such that they worked in the same manner as applications, and I don't see them being bright enough to do that.

Literally, it would need to work like a secure application and not the Apple-style app they have now. Being able to background apps and have them continue processing, provide the ability to pass-in information through walled gardens from one app to another with permissions, being able to launch one app from another app, being able to access a shared set of data, etc.

Even with all that.. I wager that companies like Dassault Systems(maker of SolidWorks, pretty much the top product in CAD design and 3D printing) that are extremely heavy into Windows, would freeze their product development to a maximum of Windows 8.x. Nobody is going to put millions of dollars into hardcore applications so that they can then give Microsoft 20-30% of their revenue. Nor do they give a rat's behind if these products work on tablets or not.

They'll port to Mac and Linux and give Microsoft two of these ,,|,, ,,|,, first.
 
Is Microsoft attempting to kill off the desktop PC as we know it? That would be a very stupid, idiotic thing to do. How many businesses worldwide use Windows on their employees PC's? Does Microsoft have any idea how much money they are throwing away if they alienate themselves from their business clients?

If you really want to change the face of computing on a worldwide scale, eliminate Microsoft and see what happens.
 

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Is Microsoft attempting to kill off the desktop PC as we know it?

That was my takeaway from what he said. They want everything to be refactored and run out of the mobile interface. Obviously they can't do that as it currently sits, so I assume thats where all the 'innovation' over the next year is going to be. Either way, if they keep the Microsoft Tax and expect developers to pay, they can gtfo.
 

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Turner said that Microsoft's ecosystem, which builds Windows devices and mobile apps, is 18 to 24 months behind where he wants it to be, but it is "catching up."

Source: Microsoft COO Kevin Turner refuses to lose | Microsoft - CNET News

COO Kevin Turner finally let slip exactly what they mean by 'devices and services', and the desktop is apparently not included in that.

What he's going to find is not only will they not make inroads with tablet devices with that strategy, but they're more than likely going to cheese off the remaining developers on the PC side along with most of the users. About the only way it would work is if they overhauled mobile apps such that they worked in the same manner as applications, and I don't see them being bright enough to do that.

Literally, it would need to work like a secure application and not the Apple-style app they have now. Being able to background apps and have them continue processing, provide the ability to pass-in information through walled gardens from one app to another with permissions, being able to launch one app from another app, being able to access a shared set of data, etc.

Even with all that.. I wager that companies like Dassault Systems(maker of SolidWorks, pretty much the top product in CAD design and 3D printing) that are extremely heavy into Windows, would freeze their product development to a maximum of Windows 8.x. Nobody is going to put millions of dollars into hardcore applications so that they can then give Microsoft 20-30% of their revenue. Nor do they give a rat's behind if these products work on tablets or not.

They'll port to Mac and Linux and give Microsoft two of these ,,|,, ,,|,, first.

Well duh! That's why the desktop is still there! :what:
 

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COO Kevin Turner finally let slip exactly what they mean by 'devices and services', and the desktop is apparently not included in that.

Again, the desktop is dead. We know that. It's official. It's just not buried yet. Metro apps will gain all the functionality of Desktop apps.

What he's going to find is not only will they not make inroads with tablet devices with that strategy, but they're more than likely going to cheese off the remaining developers on the PC side along with most of the users. About the only way it would work is if they overhauled mobile apps such that they worked in the same manner as applications, and I don't see them being bright enough to do that.

You are dead wrong. Developers are VERY MUCH behind this strategy, you know why? BECAUSE THEY MAKE MONEY. Yes, Microsoft takes a cut. But would you rather have 100% of $1M or 70% of $100M? Developers have seen this in action in the Apple Store, and they chomping at the bit to get their own piece of that.

The only people against it, are those who refuse to migrate, and those people aren't paying for new apps anyways.

It reminds me of the time that Corel decided that there was a huge untapped market in Windows 3.1 machines for WordPerfect (back in the xp days). They saw X Million Windows 3.1 boxes still out there, and thought they could make a killing porting the latest WordPerfect to Windows 3.1.

What they forgot to take into account is that those users haven't upgrade because they just don't buy software. They took a bath on it.
 

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BTW, I think he is referring to the ecosystem being available for both pc and phones being behind, as it is. The beginning of the next year when WP 8.1 comes together, they'll be even closer to that vision.
 

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The desktop is no where close to being dead. Why do people keep saying that? Walk into any large business around the country and what do you see? Desktop computers.... Its not a dead technology, not now, and not any time in the next 10-15 years.
 

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You're confusing "The Desktop" with "The Win32 Desktop UI" and more importantly, with Win32 applications.

Users will always need to do Desktop-like activities, it doesn't mean they need Win32 Applications to do it, particularly as the WinRT API evolves to have all the same functionality.

When I say "The desktop is dead", I mean Microsoft has canceled new development of Win32, and will eventually relegate it to a virtual machine in Client Hyper-V. New development is focused around WinRT (and don't confuse WinRT with Windows RT)

Win32 is going the way of DOS. It's still there, but it's only used for some things, mostly compatibility (also don't confuse a Win32 CMD prompt with DOS either, or a PowerShell Command prompt for that matter)
 

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Is Microsoft attempting to kill off the desktop PC as we know it? That would be a very stupid, idiotic thing to do. How many businesses worldwide use Windows on their employees PC's? Does Microsoft have any idea how much money they are throwing away if they alienate themselves from their business clients?

If you really want to change the face of computing on a worldwide scale, eliminate Microsoft and see what happens.

The desktop represents consumer independence. I can install XP and Office 2003 and use it for a decade and never pay another penny to anyone. Do you think you'll be able to do that in a few years? I see the writing on the wall. Subscription fees for everything. No more install disks. MS accounts to access or download everything.

Desktop users have options and control on their side. Looks like MS wants to move the control to their side through consumption devices and software services.
 

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You're confusing "The Desktop" with "The Win32 Desktop UI" and more importantly, with Win32 applications.

Users will always need to do Desktop-like activities, it doesn't mean they need Win32 Applications to do it, particularly as the WinRT API evolves to have all the same functionality.

When I say "The desktop is dead", I mean Microsoft has canceled new development of Win32, and will eventually relegate it to a virtual machine in Client Hyper-V. New development is focused around WinRT (and don't confuse WinRT with Windows RT)

Win32 is going the way of DOS. It's still there, but it's only used for some things, mostly compatibility (also don't confuse a Win32 CMD prompt with DOS either, or a PowerShell Command prompt for that matter)



Ok then say it like this as it makes more sense. Saying this way "Again, the desktop is dead. We know that. It's official. It's just not buried yet." isn't exactly an accurate statement. Go onto Newegg.com and search for desktop PC's and you find 915 different PC's to choose from. Does that sound like they're dead? You will still be able to walk into Best Buy or Fry's Electronics and buy a "desktop" off the shelf for many years to come. You will still be able to buy computers from Dell or Gateway too.

Now taking into consideration what you said about Win32, "desktop" PC's may not work the same as they do now when we get down the road about 5 years into the future, but I have a strong feeling they will still be available.
 

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    Not nearly fast enough
The desktop is no where close to being dead. Why do people keep saying that? Walk into any large business around the country and what do you see? Desktop computers.... Its not a dead technology, not now, and not any time in the next 10-15 years.

A combination of wishful thinking, ignorance, and a genuine desire to take control away from users.

They don't want end-users to be able to create, only consume (paid) content.

And what better way to ensure that, than to downgrade/debilitate the technology they use to create.

"Now, be good little sheep, pay your annual 'fee', and be happy with it....OH!, but do check out this new Angry Birds level..... Yours for just $199.95 (per annum)"?

No thanks, to Hell with that!

I won't play, sorry. And I certainly won't PAY. Try to monetise or restrict me, and I will go elsewhere, make no mistake about that.


Wenda.
 
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It is encouraging to see at least some standing up against this corporate vision of everybody else's future.
 

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You are dead wrong. Developers are VERY MUCH behind this strategy, you know why? BECAUSE THEY MAKE MONEY. Yes, Microsoft takes a cut. But would you rather have 100% of $1M or 70% of $100M? Developers have seen this in action in the Apple Store, and they chomping at the bit to get their own piece of that.

There isn't a single developer of WINDOWS APPLICATIONS that is behind this strategy. Not one. But by all means feel free to name these developers that you believe are VERY MUCH behind this strategy. Actual names since you're sooooo sure they're behind it.

If you're talking about Windows App makers, they could largely care less since they're already making apps. All half a dozen of the companies that may actually specialize in Windows apps(and i'm probably overstating at that).

Most companies who specialize in actual Apps(i.e. they already put out something people actually download in the Android or iOS stores), won't even give Windows the time of day until Redmond starts gaining a significant portion of the market. Microsoft is not only begging them to convert.. but offering cash to do so. And yet, there is a reason the 'ecosystem' is still not over 100K apps.

Attempting to shove actual Windows Application developers in there will not fix that, because they *will* refuse to go. For a lot of them(those that sell specialized software to companies or to people who work for companies), their market is usually specialized enough that simply getting pushed into that Store does not significantly increase their potential userbase or revenue on its own in any way, shape, or form, and re-coding to optimize to touch so the program doesn't fall apart on an 8" screen is very expensive. So not only do they have significant redevelopment costs, but they then have to give 20-30% of their revenue to Microsoft. You're absolutely delusional if you think they want, or will in any way do this.

If Microsoft goes this path, expect Windows Developers to start urging companies and their customers never to upgrade past 7 or 8 and to really start probing other options, including Mac, while sunsetting their Windows development. Instead of minimum requirements.. there will start being maximum requirements for Windows Applications.
 

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I'm really starting to believe we have Microsoft employees posting on this site.

I know, I know, what took me so long to come to this conclusion.
 

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You're confusing "The Desktop" with "The Win32 Desktop UI" and more importantly, with Win32 applications.

Users will always need to do Desktop-like activities, it doesn't mean they need Win32 Applications to do it, particularly as the WinRT API evolves to have all the same functionality.

What exactly do you think WinRT is built on top of? Magic? Voodoo? 'It just works'?
 

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The desktop is no where close to being dead. Why do people keep saying that? Walk into any large business around the country and what do you see? Desktop computers.... Its not a dead technology, not now, and not any time in the next 10-15 years.

A combination of wishful thinking, ignorance, and a genuine desire to take control away from users.

They don't want end-users to be able to create, only consume (paid) content.

And what better way to ensure that, than to downgrade/debilitate the technology they use to create.

"Now, be good little sheep, pay your annual 'fee', and be happy with it....OH!, but do check out this new Angry Birds level..... Yours for just $199.95 (per annum)"?

No thanks, to Hell with that!

I won't play, sorry. And I certainly won't PAY. Try to monetise or restrict me, and I will go elsewhere, make no mistake about that.


Wenda.

That's EXACTLY my thought :thumbsup:

To be clear... I decide what I WANT and what I NEED, "dear" Microsoft...
 

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There isn't a single developer of WINDOWS APPLICATIONS that is behind this strategy. Not one. But by all means feel free to name these developers that you believe are VERY MUCH behind this strategy. Actual names since you're sooooo sure they're behind it.

You are still absolutely wrong.

Here's a short list off the top of my head. These companies either have apps, or have announced they are developing apps..

Oracle, IBM, SAP, Adobe, Autodesk, Cyberlink, Symantec, NovaSoft, Corel, Mindjet, Rhapsody, Pandora, Trend Micro, etc..

That's not even counting desktop "cloud" apps, like Box, DropBox, Evernote, etc.. And it's not counting all the iOS and Android app makers that are porting apps to Windows 8.

Most companies who specialize in actual Apps(i.e. they already put out something people actually download in the Android or iOS stores), won't even give Windows the time of day until Redmond starts gaining a significant portion of the market. Microsoft is not only begging them to convert.. but offering cash to do so. And yet, there is a reason the 'ecosystem' is still not over 100K apps.

Market share is a totally different issue from whether Desktop app vendors will write software for mobile markets. But you're just moving the goal posts. You said that PC developers would be pissed off, and that is not going to be true at all, because Metro apps open up a totally new revenue stream for them. Any developer that isn't excited by this will be out of business in 5 years.

Attempting to shove actual Windows Application developers in there will not fix that, because they *will* refuse to go. For a lot of them(those that sell specialized software to companies or to people who work for companies), their market is usually specialized enough that simply getting pushed into that Store does not significantly increase their potential userbase or revenue on its own in any way, shape, or form, and re-coding to optimize to touch so the program doesn't fall apart on an 8" screen is very expensive. So not only do they have significant redevelopment costs, but they then have to give 20-30% of their revenue to Microsoft. You're absolutely delusional if you think they want, or will in any way do this.

That's called vertical application market, and that's why Win32 will continue for at least a decade, but will be relegated to a virtual machine running inside WinRT. Those app developers will eventually have to start porting their apps to WinRT so they run on the new ARM based servers (which won't have x86 compatibility) and architectures. It's not just the desktop that's moving towards WinRT, it's the server as well, and for good reason. It opens up broad new avenues of hardware that can be used.

You really have no idea the kind of market pressures that are coming down the pipe to reduce power consumption, reduce costs, etc.. all that points to power efficient strategies using non x86 technologies. In order to do that, you need WinRT so apps run on any hardware.

If Microsoft goes this path, expect Windows Developers to start urging companies and their customers never to upgrade past 7 or 8 and to really start probing other options, including Mac, while sunsetting their Windows development. Instead of minimum requirements.. there will start being maximum requirements for Windows Applications.

That's not going to happen. There is no company out there that is doing that. Can you name one?
 

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There isn't a single developer of WINDOWS APPLICATIONS that is behind this strategy. Not one. But by all means feel free to name these developers that you believe are VERY MUCH behind this strategy. Actual names since you're sooooo sure they're behind it.

You are still absolutely wrong.

Here's a short list off the top of my head. These companies either have apps, or have announced they are developing apps..

Oracle, IBM, SAP, Adobe, Autodesk, Cyberlink, Symantec, NovaSoft, Corel, Mindjet, Rhapsody, Pandora, Trend Micro, etc..

MAKING an app is not the same thing as being told you have to take all your applications and refactor them as an app.

"Hi guys! Microsoft wants you to take all your products and turn them into apps so they can be paid 20-30% of your revenue thxmuch. Wait! Where are you guys going? COME BACK!".

No company is up for that. Will they consider making AN app? Sure. Its the in thing. But nobody is behind the idea that all programs large and small should be apps(so that Microsoft can tax them), except Microsoft, and I guess you.

That's not even counting desktop "cloud" apps, like Box, DropBox, Evernote, etc.. And it's not counting all the iOS and Android app makers that are porting apps to Windows 8.

The same developers that Microsoft has to pay?
 

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