Nokia credit rating downgraded again amid cash concerns

Let's hope Nokia manages to survive stand a lone. They might need to expand their non MS offerings to do that. Not going well for them atm. Not likely to get any better when FF phones, the Samsung thing and the new iphones start getting around.

Other possibilities are for MS to buy them out - or to pay Nokia even more to carry the WP thing.

Nokia’s credit rating has been on a downward trajectory since it embraced Windows Phone in early 2011.


Nokia credit rating downgraded again amid cash concerns
 
Not to worry M$ will bail them out.
 

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That is too bad. Only a couple of years ago, Nokia was the leading smartphone company. I still have a couple of charts of their market share in 2010 and their OS Symbian. Betting on Windows was not a good deal for them.

2011-02-01_1406.png


2011-02-01_1406_001.png
 

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That is too bad. Only a couple of years ago, Nokia was the leading smartphone company. I still have a couple of charts of their market share in 2010 and their OS Symbian. Betting on Windows was not a good deal for them.

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Hi there
whatever else you do I don't suggest that you even THINK of analysing the Markets.

Nokia is actually (even on a Market down day) not far off its 52 week high -- and the latest phones aren't actually horrible either.

Sony (another old time Dinosaur) also seems to have a decent popular phone too.

The US market - important though it is isn't by any means the WHOLE market -- and often stuff that isn't popular there often has quite a decent market OUTSIDE the US.

As far as the RT tablet (whether Nokia or otherwise is concerned) - it's never going to be ready for prime time -- it's neither a decent tablet or a useable device that could function as some type of PC replacement - so R.I.P to that one -- nobody will miss it.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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No idea what you are trying to draw from that. 4 bucks is better than it was at it lowest ebb, but it is nowhere near 11 bucks not all that long ago.

It isn't going to be easy for Nokia.
 

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Hi there
When was it actually 11 USD -- the stats I am displaying are the 52 week low and high -- in investment a year is usually long enough --if you buy and hold long term you will deplete your capital very quickly unless you are INCREDIBLY LUCKY (and most of us aren't).

Buy and Hold is usually a VERY POOR strategy -- you are much better off opening and closing positions sensibly gaining a DECENT percentage instead of trying to be too greedy and accurately pinpointing the top and bottom prices.

Actually the best way is to use what's known as an "Iron Condor" as this while not making you as much money it's pretty safe and it minimizes the amount of "Margin" you need in your account (Margin = money available for trading).

For instance if I were to trade an Iron condor on MSFT options with Wings of ONE USD and a spread of 10 USD each way from the current price I could get 50 option contracts for a Margin of only 5,000 USD - often giving a WEEKLY percentage gain of around 0.5 - 1 % (26 - 52 % a year -- no Bank will give you that). To trade the same volume of MSFT without using the "Iron Condor" strategy it would require you to have approx. 165,000 USD as Margin in your account -- quite a difference !!!!.

Anyway this is a W8 Forum not a Market strategy Forum --however for those who have a little bit of Maths here's some details on how the "Iron Condor" works. (I trade this on the SPY -- this is the S&P 500 ETF Index).

The SPY ETF is not particularly volatile -- a spread of 10 is HUGE as this would mean the actual S&P 500 moving 1,000 points in the interval chosen for your option -- even in the recent more volatile markets the most this has moved in a MONTH (and you can trade these daily / hourly or at will) is 4 so the chances of losing are very small and you can exit the trade long before you lose.(Also your Max loss in the example given is only the 5,000 Margin required for the trade).

Mathematicians can easily check this by calculating the ATR (Average True Range) of the SPY -- just download the historical open / close of the SPY for a few months --YAHOO has it for free -- and calculate the ATR (moving averages of the Open / close ranges in 14 day periods).

Iron Condors Explained | Online Option Trading Guide

Average True Range (ATR) Definition | Investopedia

Cheers
jimbo
 

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It is in the first link.
Nokia’s share price, which is now under $4, down from a peak of $11.73, on the day before Elop's Windows Phone announcement was made.

Not going great for them since then. Another credit downgrade. They might be able get things going - in which case worth a punt at 4 bucks, perhaps.

If it doesn't go too well - good chance MS will help them out - so not too much of a risk. Buyout isn't impossible - in which case your 4 bucks may pay off.
 

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Well, Nokia has just announced a 41 Megapixel phone in the 1020.

That must show signs of doom and gloom. especially with the rumored phablet due when Windows Phone 8.1 arrives.
 

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I hope you aren't suggesting S&P are prejudiced?
 

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There really is no reason to compete in the Android market when Google and Samsung has got it. Over, and over, and over... They have just about every type of phone available at every price point out there.








Read in WPCentral App
89 CEO Stephen Elop explains why Nokia's in bed with Windows Phone


By Rich Edmonds, Saturday, Jul 13, 2013 at 9:04 pm


Elop%20Nokia.jpg

Everyone has been continuously wondering why Nokia has chosen to get with Microsoft, leaving Google and Android in the dark. We've had numerous reasons in the past, the most prominent being that the Android ecosystem is simply too crowded for Nokia to effectively compete in (just look at HTC to see how this can damage a company), but now Nokia CEO Stephen Elop has expanded on why he chose Windows Phone.
"I'm very happy with the decision we made," Elop said around a table with the media. "What we were worried about a couple of years ago was the very high risk that one hardware manufacturer could come to dominate Android. We had a suspicion of who it might be, because of the resources available, the vertical integration, and we were respectful of the fact that we were quite late in making that decision. Many others were in that space already."
Looking at the Android now and it's clear to see Samsung playing the dominant role, which would have made it difficult for Nokia to break through. Then you have to look at mobile operators who are important partners. "Strategically that's important for us [to be offering an alternative OS] because having a conversation with [chief executive] Ralph de la Vega at AT&T, the first step in the conversation is the recognition that we're not Apple, we're not Samsung/Android - used to be Android/Samsung, it's actually about Samsung now - we're a third alternative."
AT&T wanted a third alternative to iOS and Android. Mobile operators in multiple markets desired a third platform. Now, Windows Phone is no easy ride, but it's clear to see how Nokia has been able to work with Microsoft and really push the platform in the right direction. The partnership formed by the two companies is definitely a strong alternative to iOS and Android, which is starting to show with Windows Phone taking the third spot from BlackBerry.
So that's the main reason behind the decision and it's certainly one we stand by
 

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I think we are all already aware of Elop's explanation. A billion dollar subsidy might have had something to do with it.

Not going very well atm.
 

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Hi there
I've done some professional photo shoots in my time including some very large prints with some DSLR's and I can honestly say I've never needed anything like 41 Mega pixels -- IMO this is just totally SALES spiel -- and even if you were idiotic enough to even THINK of using a tiny phone for taking a 41 MP picture how many do you think you'd be able to fit on to even a 16GB micro sd card.

Mobile phone cameras are fine for "Snapping" or if you need a quick shot say evidence to use in Court say for a traffic accident - but for serious photography --forget it.

For starters the lenses can't give you a very narrow DOF say like a proper DSLR with the lens wide open at f2.0 - and there's so many other considerations for photography that a mobile phone camera can't even begin to address -- believe me if it were that simple do you think for one minute that the Pros would go around with a load of quite heavy and expensive gear and those huge long Canon white Lenses at sports events / safari shoots etc when all they would need to carry is a small mobile phone.

What would you think of a Wedding Photographer for example who just turns up with a Mobile Phone camera !!!.

In the early days of DSLR's Sales were often based on the "MP" race -Mega pixel race -- and remember in any case all pixels are not equal. Having a very large number crammed together on a tiny mobile phone's camera sensor also will lead to very "noisy" pictures too. This is nothing to do with the quality of build but simple PHYSICS as the electrons are crammed closer together "noise effects" due to quantum physics are generated - and at that level of MP's decent noise reducing algorithms are far too complex to incorporate into a consumer quality device.

There really isn't any need for anything bigger than around 10MP on a mobile phone anyway -- and as most of these pics aren't even printed but just sent as jpegs (compressed anyway) to places like facebook and viewed on the web even 10MP is a waste -- 4 - 6 MP is MORE than enough.

The phone itself is fine but IMO Nokia is being totally bovine by having a camera with that many MP's in it.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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jimbo45 wrote
IMO this is just totally SALES spiel -- and even if you were idiotic enough to even THINK of using a tiny phone for taking a 41 MP

Yes. imo completely and utterly ridiculous, attempting to impress some naive potential phone buyers, and getting some cheap press coverage for a (currently) failing brand\os.

Board meeting at nokia+ms...
Shall we start making better os\phones\apps than Samsung\Apple ?
No, we are incompetent in those areas, let's just use the old blunders and add some 200MP sensor (with a 2 dollar lens), that will do it!
 

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In my experience the Mega Pixels are only part of the story. I own a 4MP camera with an excellent Zeiss lens that takes very good pictures - much better than my 12MP camera that has only an average lens.
 

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If I am not wrong, the technology within this 41 MP phone is that pixels are resampled many many times but they don't give you the ability to superzoom an image where you can basically magnify a grain of sand and view it as huge as a rock in very great detail. This feature would be very unlikely to be fitted into a phone because it wouldn't have this processing ability.

I agree that some 12 MP camera are better, especially if it has BSI and produces vividly colored images.
 

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