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Interesting debate between Ed Bott and S.J.V. Nichols

  1. #1


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,515
    Vista and Win7

    Interesting debate between Ed Bott and S.J.V. Nichols


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  2. #2


    Posts : 520
    Windows 8, x64, DP8102 - Win7 Ultimate x64, Dual Boot


    Thanks, whs, I missed that one in the mess of Tech emails I get everyday.

    I'm gonna have to pay closer attention.

    I'm siding with Ed Bott on this one (not just because I respect him immensely, mind you).

    He said what I have mentioned on this forum a number of times. MS is seeking the smart phome and tablet market as well as the PC market and homogenizing the whole experience.

    It will serve them well in the long run.
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  3. #3


    Canada
    Posts : 92
    Windows 7 Home Premium FR x64


    I can't agree at all with Ed Bott AT ALL. Windows 8 will be a BIG FLAT FAILURE. Even more than Windows Me and Vista combined together. I can't see business and big enterprise going with Windows 8 at all. Why? Big business needs complex softwares. Do you think that they will pay huge amounts of dollars to get it wriiten in WinRT or Javascript like MS want them to? No way. Windows 8 need to have separate focus : PC/laptops and mobile devices such as smartphones and tablets. Why changing things that people are used to? I understand that Microsoft want thheir piece out of the mobile market but why the desktop users have to suffers through this single focus interface? I NEVER. EVER. SEEN. Somoene that has an all-in-computer with a touch screen. Even less a touch screen and I believe those are not on the market to be purchased by consumers. All that I've seen is those CRT screens used in restaurants to bill you. And they were crazy expensive for 15 inches.

    Why does Microsoft want to "fix" something that isn't broken? I bet that most users will feel so lost between the versions that they might just want to call their "person-that-knows-stuff-about-computers" and say they want their interface back from this ugliness and I would understand that. See how people have reacted to Vista because "it was different"? Ha! Expect that to happen again except that now it will be a bigger "WTF".

    Like I said above, I understand what Microsoft wants and I think it's OK but destroying what people have learned for years in the desktop/laptop department won't do them any good at all. Leave the touch and Javascript programming to the mobile device and keep the keyboard, mouse and regular programming (C, C++, C#, VB.net, Java, etc) to the PC and laptop area.

    God.
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  4. #4


    Mt. Crumpit cave
    Posts : 108
    Win 7 Ult X64 SP1


    I still think Windows eight as this preview presents it will be more benefit to Micro$oft than the great majority of users with a PC. I don't view a tablet or a cell phone as a PC, but MS seems to want us to. If Metro will be a homogenous mix with a PC OS in the RTM, it will be much like bloatware OEM's add to their machines now.
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  5. #5


    Posts : 520
    Windows 8, x64, DP8102 - Win7 Ultimate x64, Dual Boot


    Again, I disagree with the two posts above. Have y'all actually used the Metro Interface for any length of time?

    I have. I like it. It flips to my main apps when I want it to but it's alway there when I run the mouse to the left side of the screen.

    Seriously, MSFT is going in the right direction with this, IMHO.

    Imagine the comfort you'll have when you pick up your smart phone or tablet and have, basically, the same interface.

    Granted, a "full-fledged" PC will always have more options and more powerful programs ... for now ...
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  6. #6


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,515
    Vista and Win7


    The problem is that MS is caught between a rock and a hard place. They have to go after this tablet/smartphone market to keep up with the crowd and to grow. On the other hand they have to eveolve the PC system.

    The option of producing 2 seperate systems is probably prohibitive from a cost point of view. So I am afraid that we will have to live with this mush until they get some better ideas. But I have to agree; the current UI is awkward for a smooth operation with keyboard and mouse.
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  7. #7


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Quote Originally Posted by mikedl View Post
    Have y'all actually used the Metro Interface for any length of time?
    Why do people assume disagreement always comes from no good reason? I've used it and I hate it. In fact, I'm using it and hating it at the same time. It's been on my laptop since the dev release came out.

    MS has the right general concept but to me the execution is pathetic. Maybe they'll improve it. My guess is it won't be improved well enough until Windows 9. Meantime, Metro can go to hell. You're correct that the phone, tablet and PC will have the same interface. You also won't be able to run the same apps on ARM devices and x86 PCs. Can't wait to see the faces on people who buy stuff not knowing this and find out after the fact. What about switching business to Windows 8? Business people care about business stuff, and maybe Metro can handle that for them well, but as I see it, Metro is for everything that will get you fired.
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  8. #8


    Posts : 520
    Windows 8, x64, DP8102 - Win7 Ultimate x64, Dual Boot


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Travis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mikedl View Post
    Have y'all actually used the Metro Interface for any length of time?
    Why do people assume disagreement always comes from no good reason? I've used it and I hate it. In fact, I'm using it and hating it at the same time. It's been on my laptop since the dev release came out.
    Sorry about that, it was a legitimate question, however.

    The more I use the Metro Start interface, the more I like it.
    That's my experience and, from what I can see so far, I appear to be in the minority.
    I can respect other's opinions but only after they've given the Metro Start a fair shake. I apologize for implying you haven't (I've got to be a bit more careful in the future how I word my responses - again, my apologies)
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  9. #9


    Posts : 22
    Windows 7/Windows 8


    Quote Originally Posted by Lebon14 View Post
    ...Do you think that they will pay huge amounts of dollars to get it wriiten in WinRT or Javascript like MS want them to? No way.
    Where does it say they have to? And where does it say they have to use the new interface? You do know it can be turned off with a simple edit to group policy or the registry, right?

    why the desktop users have to suffers through this single focus interface?
    Their are two interfaces in Windows 8, not one. So their is nothing to suffer.

    Leave the touch and Javascript programming to the mobile device and keep the keyboard, mouse and regular programming (C, C++, C#, VB.net, Java, etc) to the PC and laptop area.
    Umm how does adding Javascript to the mix of programming languages make things bad? You can continue to use C++, *.NET and all the other programming languages you learned. Javascript was merely added as another option, what is the big deal about that?

    I think you need to step back and take one giant chill pill.
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  10. #10


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Mikedl - no apology necessary, I'm not jumping down your throat, don't want to give you that impression myself. I've got no beef with anyone who likes it. Like I said, I'm glad to see MS thinking in this direction. It's just that I find Metro geared more toward a tablet or phone, plus I don't think it looks so hot. The other day I watched some video with Paul Thurrott, who said Metro was "beautiful" or "gorgeous" or something like that. In find it incredibly pedantic looking, like a bulletin board for 4th graders, bloatish, intrusive. I understand this is the developer preview, I know it's gonna be more mouse/keyboard friendly, etc., but they're gonna have to seriously overhaul this crap before it becomes useful to me. Other parts of 8 I love, just not Metro.
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