Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Interesting debate between Ed Bott and S.J.V. Nichols

  1. #11


    Posts : 520
    Windows 8, x64, DP8102 - Win7 Ultimate x64, Dual Boot


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Travis View Post
    In find it [Metro Start Menu] incredibly pedantic looking, like a bulletin board for 4th graders, bloatish, intrusive.
    Hi, again, Colonel Travis, and thanks for the reply.

    Actually, the Metro Start Menu is less of a bloat than anything previous.
    You can customize it to your heart's content.
    Call it pedantic, if you wish, but I think that's the wrong term. More like simple and easier to pare down the apps you normally use into a quick and fast interface allowing you access to them.

    Again, I understand I am in the minority here but that's OK.

    We'll see how this develops but I don't expect to see any big changes in the future releases as it goes through Beta, RTM and final. JMO - I could be wrong.

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  2. #12


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Quote Originally Posted by mikedl View Post
    Actually, the Metro Start Menu is less of a bloat than anything previous.
    You can customize it to your heart's content.
    Yes, and thank goodness you can customize it. But I took off almost every box MS put on there, and I had to do it one at a time. Plus when you install programs, and since Metro is I guess the new start menu, you get a box for all sorts of things you installed - not just the program itself, but the uninstall exe, the setup wizard box, program support, etc. Depends on what the software vendor included. You'd get this same stuff in the start menu (if you clicked the option to include it in the start menu), but it was all under one folder and you could get rid of everything at once if you decided you didn't want it. Metro - at least now - does not allow that one-step dump. Instead you get a bunch more boxes to delete one at a time and it's a pain. I could very well be ignorant about a way to do a multiple Metro box dump - am I missing something?

    Now that MS offers apps, how many are they gonna shove on there automatically? What about people who buy a PC instead of building one (which is almost all of them)? If you thought the bloatware was bad for those machines, wait til a bunch of apps get piled on top of that.
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  3. #13


    Posts : 520
    Windows 8, x64, DP8102 - Win7 Ultimate x64, Dual Boot


    Indeed, Colonel Travis, it will be interesting. I was frustrated I could only move one app tile at a time.

    I expect that will be changed just as I got an app for my iPhone allowing me to move multiple icons - even across pages.

    It's early. I find it odd the naysayers are out in such full-force this soon.

    Don't get me wrong - I was a naysayer about Vista. I skipped it. When I got to Win7, I realized what I was missing.

    I expect the same thing to happen with Win8 for many. Especially those who use multiple devices as I do.
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  4. #14


    Canada
    Posts : 92
    Windows 7 Home Premium FR x64


    Quote Originally Posted by logicearth View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebon14 View Post
    ...Do you think that they will pay huge amounts of dollars to get it wriiten in WinRT or Javascript like MS want them to? No way.
    Where does it say they have to? And where does it say they have to use the new interface? You do know it can be turned off with a simple edit to group policy or the registry, right?

    why the desktop users have to suffers through this single focus interface?
    Their are two interfaces in Windows 8, not one. So their is nothing to suffer.

    Leave the touch and Javascript programming to the mobile device and keep the keyboard, mouse and regular programming (C, C++, C#, VB.net, Java, etc) to the PC and laptop area.
    Umm how does adding Javascript to the mix of programming languages make things bad? You can continue to use C++, *.NET and all the other programming languages you learned. Javascript was merely added as another option, what is the big deal about that?

    I think you need to step back and take one giant chill pill.
    1. Maybe but think that when you turn Win8 for the first time and they are welcomed by the Metro atrocity, I don't think they will search for long, they will ditch it.

    2. I know. What I meant is if Win8 is installed on a PC or laptop, then, the Metro is not loaded AT ALL. Everything looks like Windows 7 with a few upgrades. And if it installed on a mobile device or a tablet, then, load the touch screen. The only exception that the Metro UI is loaded on a PC is if a touch screen monitor is detected (most of the times on a all-in-one PC). Even then, let the people choose on first boot.

    3. Oh yeah... a software that opens with you default browser. No thanks. What I mean by this arrogantness is that Javascript isn't the greatest programming language for desktop application. It's all good for the tablet and mobile devices with Metro on but will do no good for the PC.

    For those who come with the "did you tried the Metro UI" question, just seeing screencaptures of it makes me sick. I don't even want to use it.
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  5. #15


    Posts : 22
    Windows 7/Windows 8


    Quote Originally Posted by Lebon14 View Post
    1. Maybe but think that when you turn Win8 for the first time and they are welcomed by the Metro atrocity, I don't think they will search for long, they will ditch it.
    Who is they? Since we are talking about businesses, it will come to the IT department, a simple change in group policy. As Win8 rolls out, grabs the policy, turns off Metro. Greeted by the old classic Windows UI. None-issue.
    3. ... It's all good for the tablet and mobile devices with Metro on but will do no good for the PC.
    Right...somehow I don't think you have thought this though. Javascript does well on desktops, the entire web uses it. Some of those web applications are just as big and complex as any desktop application. Heck, Adobe made a skimmied down version of Photoshop as a web application.
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  6. #16


    Posts : 228
    Black Label 7x64


    Quote Originally Posted by logicearth View Post
    Who is they? Since we are talking about businesses, it will come to the IT department, a simple change in group policy. As Win8 rolls out, grabs the policy, turns off Metro. Greeted by the old classic Windows UI. None-issue.
    True, but if you're a business using XP then what's the incentive to buy 8 over 7? Or the incentive to go from 7 to 8? 7 will be the cheaper option, and even though there are nice improvements with 8, without Metro they aren't that dramatic. Businesses are also more likely to buy ARM portables and then you run into a possible legacy Office problem, which may not be a problem if MS gets Office out there for ARM, which I'd guess they'd do but who knows when. MS is pushing 8 for consumers, not businesses, so 7 ain't goin anywhere anytime soon.

    If 8 bombs with consumers, MS will not have business picking up the slack. Perhaps that won't happen but if it's the new Vista - yikes.
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  7. #17


    WDP isn't win8, so hold the horses.
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  8. #18


    Germany/Florida
    Posts : 4,515
    Vista and Win7


    Quote Originally Posted by Bill2 View Post
    WDP isn't win8, so hold the horses.
    Agree - MS may have made a mistake releasing the WDP to the general public. Win8 may be getting a more negative image than it deserves.

    I myself like to play with it. There are things to be discovered. That is kind of "gaming".
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  9. #19


    Posts : 22
    Windows 7/Windows 8


    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Travis View Post
    True, but if you're a business using XP then what's the incentive to buy 8 over 7? Or the incentive to go from 7 to 8? 7 will be the cheaper option, and even though there are nice improvements with 8, without Metro they aren't that dramatic.
    Windows 7 cheaper? Uhh Windows is not sold like a car it doesn't get cheaper when a new version comes out. The old version is no longer sold. (Unless you work out special deals with Microsoft.) Also, no one ever said anything that business would update in the first place or have incentive to update. But the option to update and continue to use the old UI is there, that is the point you completely missed.

    Businesses are also more likely to buy ARM portables and then you run into a possible legacy Office problem, which may not be a problem if MS gets Office out there for ARM
    Office for ARM is already in the works, Windows 8 will not be out until 2012, beginning of back to school. Office 2012 it might be called, otherwise Office version 15 will be out with an ARM version. However, for business, Office on ARM is the least of their concerns. Legacy business applications hardly work on new versions of Windows, they will never work on ARM.
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  10. #20


    Canada
    Posts : 92
    Windows 7 Home Premium FR x64


    Quote Originally Posted by logicearth View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebon14 View Post
    1. Maybe but think that when you turn Win8 for the first time and they are welcomed by the Metro atrocity, I don't think they will search for long, they will ditch it.
    Who is they? Since we are talking about businesses, it will come to the IT department, a simple change in group policy. As Win8 rolls out, grabs the policy, turns off Metro. Greeted by the old classic Windows UI. None-issue.
    3. ... It's all good for the tablet and mobile devices with Metro on but will do no good for the PC.
    Right...somehow I don't think you have thought this though. Javascript does well on desktops, the entire web uses it. Some of those web applications are just as big and complex as any desktop application. Heck, Adobe made a skimmied down version of Photoshop as a web application.
    1. Yeah, right. I'm unemployed and I am not that familiar with business.
    2. I mean, Javascript Application that is not part of the Internet. I mean those, leave them to mobile & tablets.
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