Introducing Windows Red: A serious plan to fix Windows 8

I am almost in complete agreement with this article.

Interesting, thanks for posting the link.

You are welcome. There seems to be a lot of anti Windows 8.x on the news media today.

There seems to be disappointment at the proposals for 8.1.

It may be MS will be able to get a larger share of the tablet market. I don't know yet if they will see much improvement in their bigger market - pcs.

Surface Pro yes, Surface RT no they cannot compete on price yet and price is king in that market as they are disposal devices and easy to lose and damage.

labeeman said:

Windows 8 is a big flop. Its Frankenstein interface combines two fundamentally incompatible operating systems (Windows 7 and Metro) with two interaction styles (mouse/keyboard and touch). Sadly, Microsoft's upcoming Windows 8.1 "Blue" doesn't address these fundamental flaws.

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Introducing Windows Red: A serious plan to fix Windows 8 | Microsoft windows - InfoWorld

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Hi there
How can ANYONE respect the article --the poor guy can't even understand his own Language (English) properly -- when he talks about two different interfaces being a FRANKENSTEIN model he's lost the plot -- the official name for this type of process is Split personality disorder a la Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Case_of_Dr_Jekyll_and_Mr_Hyde.

Frankenstein is a totally different type of personality altogether (Frankenstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Anyway let's wait and see -- I for one think the new W8 .1 will be a huge improvement -- and like "The Special One" - coming back again to Chelsea FC -- I'm NEVER WRONG !!!!!!. ( BBC Sport - Jose Mourinho returns as Chelsea manager on four-year deal ) . !!!!!

To anybody who hasn't heard of Jose Mourinho - whether or not you are a Chelsea FC fan or not he certainly always makes the game interesting -- there aren't enough Real "Characters" around these days --this guy is certainly one of them whatever you think (or don't think) of Chelsea FC. A real change from some of our boring Grey suited blackberry wielding business guys or "power dressed to kill " women manipulating the same devices.

Cheers
jimbo

jimbo45 said:

labeeman said:

Windows 8 is a big flop. Its Frankenstein interface combines two fundamentally incompatible operating systems (Windows 7 and Metro) with two interaction styles (mouse/keyboard and touch). Sadly, Microsoft's upcoming Windows 8.1 "Blue" doesn't address these fundamental flaws.

Click to expand...

Introducing Windows Red: A serious plan to fix Windows 8 | Microsoft windows - InfoWorld

Click to expand...

Hi there
How can ANYONE respect the article --the poor guy can't even understand his own Language (English) properly -- when he talks about two different interfaces being a FRANKENSTEIN model he's lost the plot -- the official name for this type of process is Split personality disorder a la Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Case_of_Dr_Jekyll_and_Mr_Hyde.

Frankenstein is a totally different type of personality altogether (Frankenstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Anyway let's wait and see -- I for one think the new W8 .1 will be a huge improvement -- and like "The Special One" - coming back again to Chelsea FC -- I'm NEVER WRONG !!!!!!. ( BBC Sport - Jose Mourinho returns as Chelsea manager on four-year deal ) . !!!!!

To anybody who hasn't heard of Jose Mourinho - whether or not you are a Chelsea FC fan or not he certainly always makes the game interesting -- there aren't enough Real "Characters" around these days --this guy is certainly one of them whatever you think (or don't think) of Chelsea FC. A real change from some of our boring Grey suited blackberry wielding business guys or "power dressed to kill " women manipulating the same devices.

Cheers
jimbo

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What's Chelsea FC? A sport? Can you explain that part of your post for someone who has no idea what you are talking about? I am genuinely curious and cant click sports links at the moment.

phillipduran said:

jimbo45 said:

labeeman said:

Introducing Windows Red: A serious plan to fix Windows 8 | Microsoft windows - InfoWorld

Click to expand...

Hi there
How can ANYONE respect the article --the poor guy can't even understand his own Language (English) properly -- when he talks about two different interfaces being a FRANKENSTEIN model he's lost the plot -- the official name for this type of process is Split personality disorder a la Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Case_of_Dr_Jekyll_and_Mr_Hyde.

Frankenstein is a totally different type of personality altogether (Frankenstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Anyway let's wait and see -- I for one think the new W8 .1 will be a huge improvement -- and like "The Special One" - coming back again to Chelsea FC -- I'm NEVER WRONG !!!!!!. ( BBC Sport - Jose Mourinho returns as Chelsea manager on four-year deal ) . !!!!!

To anybody who hasn't heard of Jose Mourinho - whether or not you are a Chelsea FC fan or not he certainly always makes the game interesting -- there aren't enough Real "Characters" around these days --this guy is certainly one of them whatever you think (or don't think) of Chelsea FC. A real change from some of our boring Grey suited blackberry wielding business guys or "power dressed to kill " women manipulating the same devices.

Cheers
jimbo

Click to expand...

What's Chelsea FC? A sport? Can you explain that part of your post for someone who has no idea what you are talking about? I am genuinely curious and cant click sports links at the moment.

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Hi there - I think in your area it's called SOCCER -- Chelsea like Man Utd, Liverpool etc are in the "English Premier League" which is the top level rather like your Football Franchises (although American Football is very different to "Soccer"). Players wages in the top clubs are also obscene by any normal standards - sometimes these guys earn 300,000 GBP / 480,000 USD A WEEK as basic wages - excluding many millions more in TV / commercial sponsorship deals etc. The US president with far more responsibility earns a PITTANCE compared with these guys.

So some of the managers of these clubs get a BIG airing -- and the Mr Mourhino I was referring to always managed to get his name in the papers for winding up the other managers - but always a good laugh.

Cheers
jimbo

Ok, where to start...

The concept of windows red is nothing more than exaggeration and caricaturization at a sensationalized level. Let's take a look at some of their proposals.

• Windows Red Pro is an enhanced version of Windows 7, and it runs only on desktop and laptop PCs. It includes the Desktop advances made in Windows 8, such as multiple copy threads, enhanced Task Manager, built-in Microsoft Security Essentials, improved system recovery, Hyper-V, and Windows to Go. Windows Red Pro also drops touch support. Touchscreen PCs are simply a terrible idea and ergonomically dangerous to users; they shouldn't be enabled. Touch belongs on a horizontal surface in comfortable arm's reach.
• Windows Red Mobile is a Metro-only operating system that runs only on tablets. It's a sibling to Windows Phone and a cousin to Windows Red Pro. In a sense, it's an enhanced version of the current Metro-only Windows RT, though RT has a bunch of dumb limitations, such as the inability to be managed through Group Policy, that Windows Red Mobile fixes.
• Because there are hybrid PC/tablet devices in the market, we felt we had to accommodate them. That's our third version: Windows Red Duo. As the name implies, Duo delivers two Windows Reds on the same device.

But they do not operate simultaneously, as Windows Desktop and Metro do in Windows 8. When your hybrid's screen is detached, making it a tablet, only Windows Red Mobile can run. When your hybrid is in its laptop configuration, only Windows Red Pro can run. A reboot is required when you switch configurations. Though inelegant, it's necessary to prevent a repeat of the "Windows Frankenstein" mashup that is Windows 8. Nor is it as inconvenient as it might sound because Windows Red Pro still runs Metro apps -- only you drive them with a mouse and physical keyboard, not via touch. (More on that below.)

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There are 3 things totally wrong about this part of the proposal.

(1) Creating 3 separate OS's meant 3 separate UI's for people to learn. All the whiners in the world would whine that they can't create any muscle memory between their devices.

Anyone who's recently updated to the latest version of android 4.2 on their tablet knows that their 10 inch tablets now look like a giant phone. I honestly at first thought that people would hate it. I thought this google's attempt at universalizing the UI across all devices will turn a lot of people off. And yet, the opposite has been true. Most people seem to love the fact that their android 10 inch tablets now look like their 5 inch phone. They say it's now easier for them to navigate because it's the same across their phone and tablets.

Making 3 different UI's will create a disaster.

(2) What the hell is wrong with choice? You have the choice to work in a desktop environment and you have a choice to work in metro environment. Ok, so we get that people don't like to see metro. There are exactly 2 simple steps you need to do to get rid of metro for good. I sure as hell don't want to lose my options in windows 8.

(3) I'm one of those that works with a hybrid. The proposal of making the hybrid only show desktop while docked and only metro while undocked is beyond arrogant. Again, what the hell is wrong with having the choice to be in one environment or the other? Why do h8ers h8 choice? I'm beginning to think the north Koreans have taken over the tech review industry. It's the only explanation I can think of for the utter contempt of having choices and the effort to take my choices away.

The Charms bar is eliminated
Another unnatural aspect of Windows 8 is the Charms bar, which takes search, device access (printers, scanners, and monitors), sharing, and settings configuration out of the apps using them and into an independent element you have to call up each time you want it. This requires users to move outside of a Metro app for these common functions -- it's also unfriendly and unnecessary.
So Windows Red kills the Charms bar.

Instead, there are Search, Share, and Settings buttons standard in every app's control bar, both in Windows Red Pro and Windows Red Mobile. The Share button, by the way, extends the sharing notion from social apps and cloud storage to include printing, screen mirroring, and screen placement (on devices connected to multiple displays). Essentially, it absorbs the features of the Devices charm.
The Charms bar's PC Settings controls, which managed Metro-wide preferences, are part of a separate Settings app in Windows Red Mobile. In Windows Red Pro, the PC Settings controls not already duplicated in the Control Panel are moved to the Control Panel for a unified OS settings environment.

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I don't get it. Why do they think you have to get out of the app environment to use the charms? The charms has all the setting controls you need. It's there when you need it and it's gone when you don't need it. Do these people even know how to utilize the charms controls?

Live tiles and Metro apps are incorporated into the Windows Desktop
If Windows Red Pro were merely a better version of Windows 7, there'd be little hope that the Microsoft platform would ever transition into the new generation of computing that Apple's iOS points to. Fortunately, Microsoft can move Windows forward on the PC.

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(A) I agree with this.
(B) I doubt it could ever be implemented. This would put too much of a burden on devs.

The point I'm trying to make is windows red is a joke. It was born out of the caricatured utter contempt for windows 8. At this point, people are just looking for a reason to hate windows 8 because all the cool kids are doing it.

I might have accepted that this is constructive criticism had the author demonstrated basic understandings of windows 8.

I would not say that the two interfaces in Windows 8 are incompatible with each other - Just that the addition of the Metro interface introduces potential for new problems on an exponential scale. Fixing a broken Windows 7 is difficult enough - Adding a whole new secondary interface increases the potential problems by a geometric amount. And sticking this "Automatic Repair" system into Windows is too simplistic a method for repairing a failing OS, because there need be specific fixes which should be able to be applied, but instead,m to fix one thing, you have to run the entire Automatic Repair program. Taking out the system which specifically repairs Boot problems was a big mistake, indeed almost all of the fixes I have applied have been run from outside of Windows 8 altogether, because the Automatic Repair System simply cannot anticipate and deal with the major cause of Windows 8 Failure: Which is Read Element Failure caused by the Blue or Black screens of Death during a system lockup.

jimbo45 said:

Hi there
How can ANYONE respect the article --the poor guy can't even understand his own Language (English) properly -- when he talks about two different interfaces being a FRANKENSTEIN model he's lost the plot -- the official name for this type of process is Split personality disorder a la Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Case_of_Dr_Jekyll_and_Mr_Hyde.

Frankenstein is a totally different type of personality altogether (Frankenstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

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Well I think it's fairly strongly suggested (although I'm not sure it's spelt out) in the book that Frankenstein's monster was put together using body parts from different people, so it's not a totally invalid comparison.

GOOD ARTICLE!

I agree.

MS would be wise to read and consider what Eric Knorr and the staff of Info World suggested.

They obviously took quite a bit of time and effort to construct these offerings.

I was trying to pen something sensible together, when Good intentions posted. His post sums up 100% the way my thoughts were progressing. Many of the statements in the article are hackneyed copies from previous misconceived ideas about Windows 8. Nothing very original in the article.
I would disagree with legacy. MS would be wise to totally disregard the immature contents of the article. They have a few steps to take to make Windows 8 more acceptable to the public, but most of the Windows "red" suggestions are already available, with a little investigation and thought.

Ummm...how is this news? This is a suggestion/opinionated article that basically suggests, "Just make Windows 8 Windows 7. Or better yet, just keep Windows 7 for 10 years."