What Yahoo and Acer can teach Windows 8 app developers

I agree with you to a certain extent.

For example, I absolutely love metro IE. For the first time ever, we can browse the web full screen. But wait a minute, you say, browsing the web full screen has always been available. You just need to make it full screen. But here's the thing, I want full screen browsing as well as having all the menu stuff (tabs, address bars, favorites, etc.) readily available. Swipe from the top or bottom and you get these things. They go away when you don't want them. They are there when you need them.

That's why I love the charms bar. Yes, I know a lot of people here who hates it. I'll say it again. I love it. It's there when you need it. It goes away when you don't need it.

At the same time, I realize that most people can't tell something exists without seeing it. This is why on more than one occasion I have to tell people to scroll down or scroll right to get what they need.

goodintentions said:

At the same time, I realize that most people can't tell something exists without seeing it.

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I wouldn't put it quite that way; although for someone new to Windows 8, who clicks on a jpg attachment in an email and gets swept into the Metro image viewer without knowing what's going on, it is a real issue that they don't know how to escape.

But even for people who've seen it before, you have to remember how it works. One usability expert talked about the extra "cognitive burden" of Windows 8.

"Where do those few pixels live again to bring up those hidden controls?" "Are they on the left or the right?" "What is the hot key?" "What is even the name of those controls"
(I just did a search on Google for the definition of "charm". It says: "The power or quality of giving delight or arousing admiration." Why would you give that name to the thing you need to use to print a document?)

It's much more intuitive if you can see all this stuff. The taskbar on the bottom of a Windows 7 screen gives people an easy and visual way to navigate between open software without needing to remember a hot key or the trick with moving the mouse to the correct pixel.

goodintentions said:

For example, I absolutely love metro IE. For the first time ever, we can browse the web full screen. But wait a minute, you say, browsing the web full screen has always been available. You just need to make it full screen. But here's the thing, I want full screen browsing as well as having all the menu stuff (tabs, address bars, favorites, etc.) readily available. Swipe from the top or bottom and you get these things. They go away when you don't want them. They are there when you need them.

Click to expand...

I can do that in windows 7 with IE 10 or even older versions, go to full screen mode and then move mouse to top and I can see address bar, tabs, favorites, settings.. move mouse away and its full screen again.. hey as a bonus I even have minimize maximize or... yes close button.

Other browsers support fullscreen view too (on the desktop).

lehnerus2000 said:

Other browsers support fullscreen view too (on the desktop).

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Again, I wasn't just talking about the browser. I was using it as just an example. I'm one of those that likes the full screen apps, even on a big screen. This is why I said you have a CHOICE. CHOICE to use desktop apps. And there are millions of those.

You guys are arguing as if the desktop has been taken from us or like someone will take your mouse and keyboard from your cold dead hands. I use windows 8 in all tablet, laptop, and desktop environments and I like them all just fine. I haven't used the start menu for a month now. Given I started wanting to use it in desktop that's why I installed it. I don't miss it now.

Fair enough

goodintentions said:

Again, I wasn't just talking about the browser. I was using it as just an example.

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OK.
However you wrote:There is only one way to interpret that statement.

It's just that I see on forums (not necessarily this one) stuff like, "It is great that you can now view IE in fullscreen", as if that option had never existed before W8.

The same is true about search, "It is great that you can now just press the Windows key and start typing to search for items", as if you couldn't do that in Vista or W7.

lehnerus2000 said:

goodintentions said:

Again, I wasn't just talking about the browser. I was using it as just an example.

Click to expand...

OK.
However you wrote:

goodintentions said:

For the first time ever, we can browse the web full screen.

Click to expand...

There is only one way to interpret that statement.

It's just that I see on forums (not necessarily this one) stuff like, "It is great that you can now view IE in fullscreen", as if that option had never existed before W8.

The same is true about search, "It is great that you can now just press the Windows key and start typing to search for items", as if you couldn't do that in Vista or W7.

Click to expand...

See, I don't know what I like either. Why didn't I like the full screen mode before but I like it now? Yesterday I plugged my device into my monitor and used it as a desktop. The full screen didn't cut it. I hated it. Navigating with the mouse is terrible with full screen. I had to bring back the bars. I'm just saying that full screen feels much better with touch than mouse. I think that is why you guys don't like metro apps. You're using it in desktop mode. Which brings me to my previous point. You're talking like the desktop has been taken way. It's still there.

regarding those features already in 7, then what's the problem? It feels like windows 7 if you want it to be. Last night i tried to test it out to see if i could use it as strictly desktop. Already has classic she'll installed. Booted straight into the desktop. Never went into metro. Worked just like windows 7.

so i don't know what the problem is. Oh, right, you don't like third party apps.

goodintentions said:

I agree with you to a certain extent.

For example, I absolutely love metro IE. For the first time ever, we can browse the web full screen. But wait a minute, you say, browsing the web full screen has always been available. You just need to make it full screen. But here's the thing, I want full screen browsing as well as having all the menu stuff (tabs, address bars, favorites, etc.) readily available. Swipe from the top or bottom and you get these things. They go away when you don't want them. They are there when you need them.

That's why I love the charms bar. Yes, I know a lot of people here who hates it. I'll say it again. I love it. It's there when you need it. It goes away when you don't need it.

At the same time, I realize that most people can't tell something exists without seeing it. This is why on more than one occasion I have to tell people to scroll down or scroll right to get what they need.

Click to expand...

You don't get it. People who hates Win 8 are those who are using it primarily on a desktop. All the stuff you said are based on your biased opinion because you are using a touchscreen most of the time.

goodintentions said:

You're using it in desktop mode. Which brings me to my previous point. You're talking like the desktop has been taken way. It's still there.

regarding those features already in 7, then what's the problem?

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My problem is that some people who "promote" W8, disingenuously claim that these are fantastic new W8 additions.

goodintentions said:

so i don't know what the problem is. Oh, right, you don't like third party apps.

Click to expand...

You're mistaking me for someone else.

Almost everything I have installed on my PC is 3rd party software (mostly FOSS).
Office 2007 is the only exception (unless you count SysInternals Process Explorer).

I didn't like the fact that I was "forced" to use a 3rd party program to do something that should be (and used to be) built in.

I have nothing bad to say about Classic Shell.
Classic Shell worked great on my W8 Enterprise Preview (the Registry hack worked great on W8DP).

fourthofjuly said:

goodintentions said:

I agree with you to a certain extent.

For example, I absolutely love metro IE. For the first time ever, we can browse the web full screen. But wait a minute, you say, browsing the web full screen has always been available. You just need to make it full screen. But here's the thing, I want full screen browsing as well as having all the menu stuff (tabs, address bars, favorites, etc.) readily available. Swipe from the top or bottom and you get these things. They go away when you don't want them. They are there when you need them.

That's why I love the charms bar. Yes, I know a lot of people here who hates it. I'll say it again. I love it. It's there when you need it. It goes away when you don't need it.

At the same time, I realize that most people can't tell something exists without seeing it. This is why on more than one occasion I have to tell people to scroll down or scroll right to get what they need.

Click to expand...

You don't get it. People who hates Win 8 are those who are using it primarily on a desktop. All the stuff you said are based on your biased opinion because you are using a touchscreen most of the time.

Click to expand...

I've also said I use my device as a desktop as well. I just plug it into my big-ass monitor and use the mouse and keyboard. When I do that, I spend most of my time in the desktop. Which has been my point all along. When I'm using it as a desktop, I absolutely don't feel like I'm being forced to use metro interface. When I use the touchscreen, I absolutely don't feel like I'm being forced to use the desktop interface.

So, this goes back to my original point, which I've been making all along. I use windows 8 in both interfaces, and windows 8 works just as well in both.

People on here sound like the desktop has been permanently removed.