Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums


Working Antivirus for Win8

  1. #81


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,374
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    at least you know what you are doing and as you wipe an infected machine you have also more or less agreed that using AV software to disinfect a machine is a total waste of time.

    Actually an even nastier tactic than malware are these SNEAKWARE sites such as DRIVERMAX -- you know those sites that say FREE driver search or free computer scan -- and when the program has done its stuff it tells you that you have to PAY/ REGISTER or SUBSCRIBE in order to use anything useful that you want to do such as obtain the driver or registry cleaner or whatever.

    None of these sites contain any malware so no AV virus will dectect anything amiss -- but by suckering people into PAYING and REGISTERING these horrible sites have actually earned far more money than by employing people to write viruses with the intent of infecting computers.

    Cheers
    jimbo

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #82


    Southern Indiana
    Posts : 7
    Windows 7 / Windows 8 WDP


    @jimbo45: No, I don't necessarily agree that using AV software to disinfect a machine is a total waste of time. If the infestation is bad enough, and it is left to continue its dirty work long enough, then yes, AV or AM software is a waste of time. The programs can remove the source of the problem, but unfortunately cannot repair the damage done to the registry and system files. The trick is to PREVENT the infestation in the first place, by using good AV and AM programs along with good internet and email habits and best practices. As I posted earlier, WE are our own worst enemies.

    Cheers back at ya!
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #83


    Who would use these free online computer scannings tools? You gotto be blind to use it literately i mean come on it's a deadset virus traps.

    AV software depend on what it is and how it is used, can help protect virus but at the end of the day it is the enduser that allows their pcs to be infected. In an corporate environment, if Pcs have USBs disabled, internet policy enforced (matter of fact disallow internet access altogether), and AV server pushing out virus defiinitions to clients regulary i recon viruses would have a hard time getting through to the machines.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec


  4. #84


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,374
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    I think you missed the point here -- I'm NOT saying you should stop using AV software (although most of it is no better - or worse - than MSE) but IF you DO get a computer infected then using the AV program on the infected computer itself is IMO a total waste of time as you could never be 100% sure that the computer was clean.


    The point here is not whether you use an AV program or not - but IF your computer is unfortunate enough to become infected what is a SAFE and 100% reliable way of fixing it.

    Running ANY operation on an infected machine IMO is just ASKING for troubles / problems later down the line.

    Disallowing USB's while sounding attractive could be a problem.

    Loads of people copy files to USB's from work to continue working OFFLINE at home and then re-load the files back the following day. Not everybody takes work computers home or can even access their networks via VPN's etc.


    What might be a less restrictive but still a safe policy is to only allow access to DOWNLOAD stuff to a USB but no UPLOAD. Not sure how you would enforce that on Windows --can be done on Linux OK for example set the USB to WRITE ONLY but apart from the directory names no FILE READ.

    In any case if you disallow this sort of stuff people then will use the email -- it's easy to encrypt stuff to bypass corporate Virus scanning programs and by breaking it up into chunks you've got round any mail send / receive size limits.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  5. #85


    A waste of time in having an AV that protects your machine and cleans it at a "satisfactory" level? I think not. I say satisfactory level because there's no such thing as 100%. If a machine is infected and then cleansed the best we can hope for is to continue using that machine without any operational issues. That said it will depend on the need of the machine, what the machine is used for and who uses it that the continuing usage of the machine is warranted. Not all situations are the same. Take for example if a machine used to store or process top secret data at FBI HQ is infected, you wouldn't want to continue allowing it to be used regardless of what has been done to clean it. This is an example of an unsatisfactory safe level.

    As for the question of what is a SAFE and 100% reliable way of fixing an infected machine, the answer would depend on the need of the machine, what the machine is used for and who uses it. If the machine is on the network, you'd want to disconnect it off the network and then do a full scan, where the AV definitions are not up to date (for what ever reasons) you'd want to first update the definitions by downloading onto USB and updating them before running the scan. As for 100% reliable, again there is no such a thing as 100% and in a non perfect world we must work with what we have. No point in thinking outside the scope if you know what i mean.

    As for allowing what can come into a machine and what can't complete disabling of media usages such as USB sticks, CD/DVD drives etc will work but again this will depend on the need of the machine, what the machine is used for and who uses it. Companies should enforce strict IT policies for their own good. Emails and Internet filtering can be done also, but again nothing is 100% and we as IT Support people can only work with what we have, not what we don't have.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  6. #86


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,374
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    I think your answer is a typical I.T guys response.

    In the REAL WORLD for example if you have a SERIOUS problem with your Car engine the garage will REMOVE the engine from the vehicle and do the appropriate repairs.

    Surely if your computer on a network gets infected it should also be repaired OFF LINE and certainly by using tools that aren't connected to the network the computer got infected from ( or where the infection was dected from ).

    As I keep saying 99% AV software is 100% useless and only supplies jobs for people having dubious qualifications in even more dubious locations.

    Most people actually would be better off in just taking daily backups of their computers --these days a decent backup will probably take around 20 mins on a typical workstation-- and if the machine is infected a restore from a last known GOOD backup would also only probably take around 20 mins too.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  7. #87


    My answer might be from an IT dude, but it's real and that's how most IT Deppartment deal with viruses, and virus threats.

    Unfortunately not all companaies have the luxury of time, money or resources to deal with threats the way you have detailed in your anology. Again i make a point that you can only work with what you have and not what you don't have. There are rules that needs to be applied including IT practices and Audit. You can't just do things YOU think is best.

    If a computer on the network is infected, it will ideally need to be repaired offline, that means taken if off the network so as to stop the virus from spreading. Whether it is done quick enough to prevent it from happenning is another thing. there's no self removing off the network when a virus hit, humans have to do it. And by the way i have stated it should be off the network, please read my post.

    You keep on saying with 10000% certainty that it is 99% useless to have AV software (other than MSE no doubt). It would seem that you haven't worked in a corporate environment to understand the need for AV protection and prevention. But if you have you'd know that you can only work with what you have and do the best that the company's technology and resources has to offer. You can't do more than that and there is no such thing as 100%.

    I failt to see how backups could be an alternative to fixing an infected machine. Sure if the machine cannot be revitalised and you need to wipe and reimage that's fine but that's not the first thing you thing of when you have an infected machine, if you go the method you're not dealing with virus infection or protection rather sweeping it under the carpet.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  8. #88


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,374
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    Repairing corporate Networks or infected computers on a corporate LAN is a different matterentirely -- I specefically am referring to STAND ALONE (or very tiny Network) HOME user machines -- especially as I doubt whether any corporates will be using W8 for a long time yet -- most are only just starting the W7 upgrade process --they aren't going to repeat this whole exercise again in a year or two.

    There really isn't any problem with HOME users being able to backup and restore as often as they care to (and they SHOULD take regular backups anyway whether their computer gets infected or not.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  9. #89


    Understood there are differences between enterprise environment and non enterprise environment, but the core concept of virus protection and prevention is the same. AV software provides protection as well as prevention and if that's understood then it's presence is necessary, and paramount if you are referring to enterprise environments.

    I really cannot see how data backup relates to protecting your pc from virus threats. Sure having regular backups of your data is important and needful incase of the need to restore lost data but these backups does not help protect or prevent virus threats. What does protect or prevent is an effective implementation of AV.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  10. #90


    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,374
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10


    Hi there
    again I think you have slightly mis understood (or maybe my bad English).

    The purpose of regular Virus free backups isn't to PREVENT your computer to get infected - it's a great time saver and excellent way of restoring your computer to Virus Free state AFTER it's been infected.

    As I said I would never trust a computer that had only been cleansed via a Virus cleansing program -- corporate computer or not --and as an end user I can and have not only the right but also the duty to ensure that I use company provided computers responsibly --so If I'm in any way responsible for the equipment provided I will insist it's in 100% working order before I accept any responsibility for its use (or abuse).

    My post was not about saying don't use ANY AV software but about the fact there really isn't ANY advantage these days in using 3rd party products for HOME computers (Corporate Lans diffent matter).

    Most 3rd party products consume resources and in general interfere with the OS far more than is really necessary and do they really give you any better protection than the standard built in Microsoft one.

    The only way AFAIK is to actually TEST a load of LIVE viruses on a machine and see what happens. - However this is also a little bit of a problem since the manner in which people use computers is so different -- so just by saying Virus A is detected by B,C,D, Virus B is detected by A,C for example doesn't prove that package C is better or worse than Package A. Package A might be more useful in some cases where the users never go near sites that could infect user with Virus B.

    Statisctical analysis needs VERY VERY careful interpretation to present meaningful and sensible results.

    This whole case of AV software is riddled with inconsistences and "exaggerated" statistics -- but like all things "Caveat Emptor"

    "You pays your money and takes your choice".

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Last edited by jimbo45; 28 Oct 2011 at 03:40.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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Working Antivirus for Win8

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