SSD defrag issues in Windows 8.1 RTM

djsigma

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I upgraded to 8.1 and everything is fine, apart from these 2 issues: -

1. If I start a maintenance run manually via Control Panel, Windows will start defragging my SSD, which obviously shouldn't happen. You can see it happening here, even though the drive is correctly identified as an SSD: -

i1uESyD.jpg


I believe this bug was an issue in Windows 8 as well.

2. The System Reserved partition shows up in Optimise Drives, as it did in Windows 8, but I am unable to optimise it. If I select it and click the Optimise button, the Optimise Drives window disappears, reappears, but nothing has happened. It still says "Never run" and "Needs optimisation" next to it. Also, that causes an error to show up in Event Viewer each time I try it, as you can see here: -

us4BH9i.jpg


The error is the same each time: -

The volume System Reserved was not optimised because an error was encountered: The parameter is incorrect (0x80070057)
Also in that list of logged events you can see where events have been logged saying that my C drive has been defragmented and not just retrimmed.

I have tried running chkdsk on the drive. I've tried running System File Checker. I have tried this command: -

DISM.exe /Online /Cleanup-image /Scanhealth

Everything checks out fine and there are no errors.

Is this something I should be concerned about? Issue 1 only occurs if you manually start a maintenance run from Control Panel and it appears to be a bug in Windows, but that's easily solved by just letting maintenance run automatically on a schedule. It's issue 2 that I'm more concerned about. My system is running great and I don't know if not optimising that small 350 MB System Reserved partition really matters.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus V Gene
    Memory
    Corsair 4 x 4 GB 1,600 MHz
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    Gigabyte GTX 670
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    RME HDSPe AIO
    Monitor(s) Displays
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    Noctua NH-D14 Special Edition
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    Opera 12.16

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel G2020
    Motherboard
    ASRock B75M-DGS R2.0
    Memory
    8GBs @ 1333 MHz
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 840 EVO
    PSU
    400w
    Internet Speed
    57/11
Thanks for the reply. Yep, it's in AHCI mode and TRIM is turned on.

Is this likely to have any long term effects on the way my system runs? It's running great at the moment and my main C partition with Windows and software on it is unaffected by this - it's just the System Reserved partition that can't be optimised.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus V Gene
    Memory
    Corsair 4 x 4 GB 1,600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte GTX 670
    Sound Card
    RME HDSPe AIO
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U2713HM
    Screen Resolution
    2,560 x 1,440
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB
    Hitachi 7K3000 2 TB
    PSU
    Seasonic X-760
    Case
    Silverstone TJ08-E
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D14 Special Edition
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech M570
    Internet Speed
    60 Mbps/3 Mbps cable
    Browser
    Opera 12.16

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 8.1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Aspire E1-571
    CPU
    i5-3230m
    Motherboard
    Acer Type-2
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel HD 4000
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    High Definiton Audio Device
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    Generic
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    1366x768
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    Samsung 850 Pro 256GB
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    Generic
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    ELANTECH Touchpad
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    12.68Mbps
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    IE11
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    Windows Defender
You can leave the Automatic Optimization on for System reserved Partition as it's a small partition
Right, but that is one of my issues. I cannot optimise that partition either manually or via scheduled maintenance because of the errors mentioned in my previous posts.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus V Gene
    Memory
    Corsair 4 x 4 GB 1,600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte GTX 670
    Sound Card
    RME HDSPe AIO
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U2713HM
    Screen Resolution
    2,560 x 1,440
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB
    Hitachi 7K3000 2 TB
    PSU
    Seasonic X-760
    Case
    Silverstone TJ08-E
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D14 Special Edition
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech M570
    Internet Speed
    60 Mbps/3 Mbps cable
    Browser
    Opera 12.16
You can leave the Automatic Optimization on for System reserved Partition as it's a small partition
Right, but that is one of my issues. I cannot optimise that partition either manually or via scheduled maintenance because of the errors mentioned in my previous posts.
Sorry, you have to wait for someone else to help you.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Win 8.1
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Aspire E1-571
    CPU
    i5-3230m
    Motherboard
    Acer Type-2
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel HD 4000
    Sound Card
    High Definiton Audio Device
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Generic
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 850 Pro 256GB
    PSU
    Generic
    Keyboard
    QWERTY
    Mouse
    ELANTECH Touchpad
    Internet Speed
    12.68Mbps
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
Just kill "Optimize Drives" service and optimize HDD from some other program if you insist on it. Win7 (specially with SP1) and Win8 are really "gentle" to disks and fragment very little comparing to XP and before and do not need to much optimization anyway. That System Reserved Partition is on the SSD too so that is out as far as optimization is concerned but even on HDD has very little impact. In addition to SSD I have 2 large HDD, I push thru them a lot of GBs of files daily and barely once every few month I have to do any optimization and even then it styes under 7% fragmentation.
SSDs have their own way of optimization in the FW and all you have to worry about is that Trim is active.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD
Sorry, you have to wait for someone else to help you.
Thanks for the help anyway. I've followed the advice in that blog post and have removed my SSD from the regular scheduled maintenance and I've created a task to retrim the C partition once per week. The System Reserved partition will just have to remain unoptimised until I can find a solution to that problem.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus V Gene
    Memory
    Corsair 4 x 4 GB 1,600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte GTX 670
    Sound Card
    RME HDSPe AIO
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U2713HM
    Screen Resolution
    2,560 x 1,440
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB
    Hitachi 7K3000 2 TB
    PSU
    Seasonic X-760
    Case
    Silverstone TJ08-E
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D14 Special Edition
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech M570
    Internet Speed
    60 Mbps/3 Mbps cable
    Browser
    Opera 12.16
Thanks for the reply. Yep, it's in AHCI mode and TRIM is turned on.

Is this likely to have any long term effects on the way my system runs? It's running great at the moment and my main C partition with Windows and software on it is unaffected by this - it's just the System Reserved partition that can't be optimised.

I would still be concerned about the C partition not optimizing properly and I (personally) would turn off the weekly schedule until a proper optimization solution is found. Could you provide a screenshot of Disk Management? Here's mine for comparison:

Screenshot (4).png
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel G2020
    Motherboard
    ASRock B75M-DGS R2.0
    Memory
    8GBs @ 1333 MHz
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 840 EVO
    PSU
    400w
    Internet Speed
    57/11
I would still be concerned about the C partition not optimizing properly and I (personally) would turn off the weekly schedule until a proper optimization solution is found. Could you provide a screenshot of Disk Management?
The C partition is optimising fine. It's the System Reserved partition that isn't.

Wd2kwWF.jpg
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus V Gene
    Memory
    Corsair 4 x 4 GB 1,600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte GTX 670
    Sound Card
    RME HDSPe AIO
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U2713HM
    Screen Resolution
    2,560 x 1,440
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB
    Hitachi 7K3000 2 TB
    PSU
    Seasonic X-760
    Case
    Silverstone TJ08-E
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D14 Special Edition
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech M570
    Internet Speed
    60 Mbps/3 Mbps cable
    Browser
    Opera 12.16
I don't even have that System reserved partition, never had it on any system and don't miss it. In any case it is on SSD and is of no consequence.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD
I would still be concerned about the C partition not optimizing properly and I (personally) would turn off the weekly schedule until a proper optimization solution is found. Could you provide a screenshot of Disk Management?
The C partition is optimising fine. It's the System Reserved partition that isn't.

Wd2kwWF.jpg

Hmm... Your first post showed your defrag attempt of the C partition acting like a mechanical hard drive; in that, it was defragging and not optimizing. IMHO, that is not acceptable. So, did you fix that so it now optimizes properly? If not, that would be my main concern. And, as others have stated, forget the System Reserved.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel G2020
    Motherboard
    ASRock B75M-DGS R2.0
    Memory
    8GBs @ 1333 MHz
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 840 EVO
    PSU
    400w
    Internet Speed
    57/11
Here's what optimization looks like while running on an SSD:

Screenshot (3).png

I didn't see that in your first post. Again, I would turn off weekly scheduling until a solution is found.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel G2020
    Motherboard
    ASRock B75M-DGS R2.0
    Memory
    8GBs @ 1333 MHz
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 840 EVO
    PSU
    400w
    Internet Speed
    57/11
That defrag issue is a bug in Windows 8 that has carried over to 8.1, as detailed here: -

Why Windows 8 defragments your SSD and how you can avoid this |

The fix for that is to exclude the SSD from the default scheduled maintenance and set up a new event in Task Scheduler that will just retrim the drive once per week.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus V Gene
    Memory
    Corsair 4 x 4 GB 1,600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte GTX 670
    Sound Card
    RME HDSPe AIO
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U2713HM
    Screen Resolution
    2,560 x 1,440
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB
    Hitachi 7K3000 2 TB
    PSU
    Seasonic X-760
    Case
    Silverstone TJ08-E
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D14 Special Edition
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech M570
    Internet Speed
    60 Mbps/3 Mbps cable
    Browser
    Opera 12.16
Not even forcing the Trim changes anything, it is important to have it enabled but SSD is the one that requests it from OS and than does it's optimizing without use of the OS. Optimizing SSD is completely different from HDD,there is no fragmentation or changing physical place for files, it just unloads cells marked erased and spreads the load equally.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Home made
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen7 2700x
    Motherboard
    Asus Prime x470 Pro
    Memory
    16GB Kingston 3600
    Graphics Card(s)
    Asus strix 570 OC 4gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 960 evo 250GB
    Silicon Power V70 240GB SSD
    WD 1 TB Blue
    WD 2 TB Blue
    Bunch of backup HDDs.
    PSU
    Sharkoon, Silent Storm 660W
    Case
    Raidmax
    Cooling
    CCM Nepton 140xl
    Internet Speed
    40/2 Mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    WD
That defrag issue is a bug in Windows 8 that has carried over to 8.1, as detailed here: -

Why Windows 8 defragments your SSD and how you can avoid this |

The fix for that is to exclude the SSD from the default scheduled maintenance and set up a new event in Task Scheduler that will just retrim the drive once per week.

Never heard of or encountered that bug in many Win 8 and 8.1 installs; however, if you feel confident that solution will work for you, then good luck.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel G2020
    Motherboard
    ASRock B75M-DGS R2.0
    Memory
    8GBs @ 1333 MHz
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 840 EVO
    PSU
    400w
    Internet Speed
    57/11
Never heard of or encountered that bug in many Win 8 and 8.1 installs; however, if you feel confident that solution will work for you, then good luck.
That's because it's not something you would normally notice. If you launch Optimise Drives manually and select a partition on an SSD and hit "Optimise" the bug will not occur. It only occurs if your drive is over 10% fragmented and a scheduled maintenance run kicks in, in which case you wouldn't be looking at the Optimise Drives screen to see the defrag taking place and an SSD is silent so you hear no disc churning, or if you go into Action Center and start a maintenance run manually, which is not something that people tend to do.

Try copying and pasting this into Windows Powershell: -

Get-EventLog -LogName Application -Source "microsoft-windows-defrag" | sort timegenerated -desc | fl timegenerated, message
Then look through the results to see if there's any mention of your SSD being defragmented, rather than retrimmed. The longer your system has been up and running, the more likely you are to hit the "over 10% fragmented" mark which would cause the bug to kick in and defrag the SSD, rather than just retrimming it.

There's another thread on here where this was discussed and some users were unaware that their SSD was being defragmented until they ran the above command: -

http://www.eightforums.com/performance-maintenance/29184-defrag-ssd.html

There's also a warning about this bug at the top of this guide: -

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/8616-optimize-drives-schedule-change-windows-8-a.html
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus V Gene
    Memory
    Corsair 4 x 4 GB 1,600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte GTX 670
    Sound Card
    RME HDSPe AIO
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U2713HM
    Screen Resolution
    2,560 x 1,440
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB
    Hitachi 7K3000 2 TB
    PSU
    Seasonic X-760
    Case
    Silverstone TJ08-E
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D14 Special Edition
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech M570
    Internet Speed
    60 Mbps/3 Mbps cable
    Browser
    Opera 12.16
Thank you for that detailed response and I am glad that you got your issue resolved; however, I cannot recreate your circumstances because of the way I maintain my PC for the following reasons:

I keep a watchful eye on my Event Logs and clear them on a regular basis.
I have scheduled defrag turned off and I only optimize on a manual basis as needed
(see previous screenshot).
I have never seen a warning about a percentile of defrag notice as you describe (eg 10%).
I only see two notices and they are either OK or Needs Optimization.

In any event, glad you are satisfied with your workaround and I hope it serves you well.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel G2020
    Motherboard
    ASRock B75M-DGS R2.0
    Memory
    8GBs @ 1333 MHz
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 840 EVO
    PSU
    400w
    Internet Speed
    57/11
Right, well if you manually optimise within Optimise Drives, then you will never encounter that bug, but with a stock install of Windows 8 or 8.1 where maintenance is scheduled, chances are that you would. Unfortunately, trying to get MS to take notice of this is not an easy task! lol.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 3770K
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus V Gene
    Memory
    Corsair 4 x 4 GB 1,600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Gigabyte GTX 670
    Sound Card
    RME HDSPe AIO
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell U2713HM
    Screen Resolution
    2,560 x 1,440
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB
    Hitachi 7K3000 2 TB
    PSU
    Seasonic X-760
    Case
    Silverstone TJ08-E
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D14 Special Edition
    Keyboard
    Logitech K800
    Mouse
    Logitech M570
    Internet Speed
    60 Mbps/3 Mbps cable
    Browser
    Opera 12.16
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