"System Managed" Paging File Seems Low

Daddyman

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My son's Windows 8 laptop has 6 GB of RAM. His paging file resides entirely on the C: drive and is the "System managed size".

His paging file is set to 960MB. Doesn't that seem very low? It's even less than the recommended 4,067MB.
 

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System Managed means the PF size is dynamic. Windows increases or decreases its size depending on memory allocated to running processes. With 6GB of RAM, it's entirely possible that 960MB of PF is enough at the moment. If you're to start a virtual machine with 4GB of RAM allocated, you surely will see PF growing :)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro x64
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion dv7t (17.3'', i7-2630QM, HD 6770M 1Gb, 8Gb RAM, 2 SSD@120Gb + 1 HDD@750Gb)
I have 4 GBs ram on Win 8 Pro.

I set page file to 6000 MBs. - (6 GBs) with no issues.

I have 500 GB drive.

Setting it to the recommended size won't hurt.

Put the same size in both boxes. -- (Initial & Maximum)
 

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Hi there
I'd just let windows manage it -- the OS is much better at handling this than by a "Random Guess". Paging algorithms are extremely complex - and this is one area I'd recommend users to "DO NOT TOUCH" as almost anything you do will degrade it to what windows has determined it needs.

I have 16 GB RAM in this machine and a 120 GB SSD for the OS -- Windows determines that I only am using 2GB for paging -- that's fine and I'm not changing it --if Windows wants more it can allocate as required.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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Thanks to all for your help. I did not realize that the size of the pagefile can be dynamically allocated. I'll leave it up to Windows in that case.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
Thanks to all for your help. I did not realize that the size of the pagefile can be dynamically allocated. I'll leave it up to Windows in that case.

That's a good choice. :)
I just set mine large because I do a lot of image processing.
My choice.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1.1 Pro with Media Center
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Gateway
    CPU
    AMD K140 Cores 2 Threads 2 Name AMD K140 Package Socket FT1 BGA Technology 40nm
    Motherboard
    Manufacturer Gateway Model SX2110G (P0)
    Memory
    Type DDR3 Size 8192 MBytes DRAM Frequency 532.3 MHz
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    ATI AMD Radeon HD 7310 Graphics
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    AMD High Definition Audio Device Realtek High Definition Audio USB Audio Device
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    Extended Family 14
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System Managed means the PF size is dynamic. Windows increases or decreases its size depending on memory allocated to running processes. With 6GB of RAM, it's entirely possible that 960MB of PF is enough at the moment. If you're to start a virtual machine with 4GB of RAM allocated, you surely will see PF growing

Incorrect

When the pagefile is system managed the initial size will be set to some value related to RAM size and the maximum size some multiple of the initial size. The actual size depends on the OS and RAM size. Unless this initial pagefile is too small for the commit charge the pagefile will never be resized. It works exactly the same with user defined parematers, with the only difference being that the system managed pagefile size will be updated at bootup if RAM size changes.

The idea that a system managed pagefile constantly varies with need is a myth. No NT class OS has ever worked that way.

Edit: I would leave the pagefile configuration as is. I believe that the "recommended size" has lagged behind the configuration changes in more recent systems..
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
Hi there
Also partially incorrect

Paging in Windows performs TWO tasks which are different but often confused -- "Classical Paging" and "Swapping". In Linux you usually have a separate swapping area.

Swapping occurs when a good part of an application (or complete User's work space if a multi-user system is being used) . This simply copies out the entire "Users address space" as an image on to backup storage and occurs for example if a particular user or application hasn't been active for a long while while say memory is needed to start another user. Swapping doesn't normally cause severe system degradation but it's usually (in system terms) a much longer process than paging.

Paging is used for example when an application needs more physical memory than is currently available in the system. Windows (or similar OS'es) can create a Virtual memory address space of much larger than the physical available RAM and what paging does is Map this Virtual address space to the physical RAM available.

Only a fixed number of these pages can reside in memory at any one time so unused memory pages are written out to the paging device(s). A popular algorithm is often called LRU (least Recently Used algorithm) but efficient paging algorithms are quite complex. Pages are allocated in fixed storage sized chunks so the writing to disk is much quicker than when a "Swap" takes place. With Windows on a single user system you can essentially ignore the swapping process.

If the system doesn't have enough RAM then as fast as a page is paged out a previously used one is paged back in - leading to computer lockup known as "Thrashing". This can be seen by the HDD light being solid on and the computer not being responsive or feeling "seized up".

The size of the page file can dynamically change - and should -- and if it doesn't it's either that not much paging in the system is occurring or the OS has an error in it.

As far as servers are concerned there really shouldn't be a lot (if any) paging if the servers are performing their basic functions and are adequately configured. Most of these are usually providing File sharing services or large Database accesses which have their own type of memory control and allocation anyway.

@Medab1 -- if some of your image processing is in using things like PHOTOSHOP you would be far better off in allocating SCRATCH FILE AREAS on fast HDD's (or better SSD's) for these programs rather than use the system page files. PHOTOSHOP with some scratch files on SSD's works BLINDINGLY FAST -- I often process HUGE RAW files from PROFESSIONAL DSLR's (e.g canon 1D4's) with loads of layers in them for POSTER size printing (A2) for example. (Having the OS + applications on a separate SSD as well also helps --SSD's are quite cheap now and the difference in performance even on modest systems is HUGE).

Cheers
jimbo
 

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    SSD's * 3 (Samsung 840 series) 250 GB
    2 X 3 TB sata
    5 X 1 TB sata
    Internet Speed
    0.12 GB/s (120Mb/s)
This is how I have my page file set (note that I have 3 OSes installed, and only the currently active one will show a page file, which is fixed in size to 1024MB). They all share a dynamic page file on drive P, which is system managed and occupies 24448MB.

Capture.PNG
 

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    Windows 8.1 Pro RTM x64
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    Dwarf Dwf/11/2012 r09/2013
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    Intel Core-i5-3570K 4-core @ 3.4GHz (Ivy Bridge) (OC 4.2GHz)
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Nice examples on this thread.

I have turned the pagefile off and having 16GB of RAM.
This was also something seen by default (factory ACER settings) on a Vista laptop back in 2007.

I believe the system still knows how to handle the things correctly since I don't have any issues.
The minimum was 800MB and something lower than this or turned off would not allow error dumps and reports to be created I guess.

In case I need the pagefile, I'll put it on the c drive SSD and with a fixed size, something of 1024 like seen in Dwarf's post above.
EDIT: it's better to have it on than off since some programs (like photoshop and vmware) might need the pagefile or check for it.

System managed usually has a variable size assigned. So low doesn't mean bad but it can get a bigger size when the system needs that.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 x64
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Envy DV6 7250
    CPU
    Intel i7-3630QM
    Motherboard
    HP, Intel HM77 Express Chipset
    Memory
    16GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel HD4000 + Nvidia Geforce 630M
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    IDT HD Audio
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    15.6' built-in + Samsung S22D300 + 17.3' LG Phillips
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    Samsung SSD 250GB + Hitachi HDD 750GB
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    120W adapter
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    Mouse
    SteelSeries Sensei
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    slow and steady
    Browser
    Chromium, Pale Moon, Firefox Developer Edition
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    That's basically it.
Just be aware that having no paging file at all keeps the memory manager (specifically the modified page writer thread) from being able to "page" dirty memory pages to the paging file if memory pressure dictates. If you have a lot of RAM and a fixed use-case scenario this may not be a problem, but you could end up in a scenario where there isn't a lot of memory pressure, but a lot of previously in-use memory pages are on the standby or modified page list, they won't be paged out and you can end up with an out of memory error in an application or three if they require touching memory pages into it's working set, or worse, a bugcheck if Windows was the "application" that needed more memory pages in it's working set.

It's not a common scenario, but it is a scenario that could happen if you totally disable the paging file. Unless you have a *really* small disk, it would still be better to have a 1GB or larger paging file versus none at all. Most paging operations are still read, not write, and assuming even just somewhat decent hardware, there shouldn't be a performance hit for doing so under normal use case scenarios.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.5GHz
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus Hero VII
    Memory
    32GB DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GeForce GTX970
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Hard Drives
    1x Samsung 250GB SSD
    4x WD RE 2TB (RAIDZ)
    PSU
    Corsair AX760i
    Case
    Fractal Design Define R4
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15
Just be aware that having no paging file at all keeps the memory manager (specifically the modified page writer thread) from being able to "page" dirty memory pages to the paging file if memory pressure dictates. If you have a lot of RAM and a fixed use-case scenario this may not be a problem, but you could end up in a scenario where there isn't a lot of memory pressure, but a lot of previously in-use memory pages are on the standby or modified page list, they won't be paged out and you can end up with an out of memory error in an application or three if they require touching memory pages into it's working set, or worse, a bugcheck if Windows was the "application" that needed more memory pages in it's working set.

It's not a common scenario, but it is a scenario that could happen if you totally disable the paging file. Unless you have a *really* small disk, it would still be better to have a 1GB or larger paging file versus none at all. Most paging operations are still read, not write, and assuming even just somewhat decent hardware, there shouldn't be a performance hit for doing so under normal use case scenarios.

Thank you for the details.

In the end I set the paging to 1GB, better not taking any risks.
I read something about it online and you seem to confirm this.

The pagefile is better set on an SSD since more reads are involved, all goes well.
The system managed pagefile for 16GB RAM is bigger than 8GB if put on a HDD but it's about 5GB for an SSD, so it seems.

I hope the 1GB fixed size is enough, otherwise I'll increase it.
So far there were no issues (VirtualBox VM's were running not using more than 2GB so far), as you said, there is a possibility but depends on memory usage.

Cheers!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 x64
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Envy DV6 7250
    CPU
    Intel i7-3630QM
    Motherboard
    HP, Intel HM77 Express Chipset
    Memory
    16GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel HD4000 + Nvidia Geforce 630M
    Sound Card
    IDT HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.6' built-in + Samsung S22D300 + 17.3' LG Phillips
    Screen Resolution
    multiple resolutions
    Hard Drives
    Samsung SSD 250GB + Hitachi HDD 750GB
    PSU
    120W adapter
    Case
    small
    Cooling
    laptop cooling pad
    Keyboard
    Backlit built-in + big one in USB
    Mouse
    SteelSeries Sensei
    Internet Speed
    slow and steady
    Browser
    Chromium, Pale Moon, Firefox Developer Edition
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    That's basically it.
Thank you for the details.

In the end I set the paging to 1GB, better not taking any risks.
I read something about it online and you seem to confirm this.

The pagefile is better set on an SSD since more reads are involved, all goes well.
The system managed pagefile for 16GB RAM is bigger than 8GB if put on a HDD but it's about 5GB for an SSD, so it seems.

I hope the 1GB fixed size is enough, otherwise I'll increase it.
So far there were no issues (VirtualBox VM's were running not using more than 2GB so far), as you said, there is a possibility but depends on memory usage.

Cheers!

You can Google this if you wish.
The rule of thumb is the page file should be upped to 1½ times your amount of Ram.
If you decide to up it.

I have 4 GBs Ram so I set my page file to 6 GBs.
4 x 1½ = 6

That is considered a safe ammount.
 

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  • OS
    Windows 8.1.1 Pro with Media Center
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Gateway
    CPU
    AMD K140 Cores 2 Threads 2 Name AMD K140 Package Socket FT1 BGA Technology 40nm
    Motherboard
    Manufacturer Gateway Model SX2110G (P0)
    Memory
    Type DDR3 Size 8192 MBytes DRAM Frequency 532.3 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI AMD Radeon HD 7310 Graphics
    Sound Card
    AMD High Definition Audio Device Realtek High Definition Audio USB Audio Device
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    Name 1950W on AMD Radeon HD 7310 Graphics Current Resolution 1366x768 pixels Work Resolution 1366x76
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    AMD K140
    Cores 2
    Threads 2
    Name AMD K140
    Package Socket FT1 BGA
    Technology 40nm
    Specification AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon HD Graphics
    Family F
    Extended Family 14
    Model 2
    Extended Model 2
    Stepping 0
    Revision ON-C0
    Instruction
    Browser
    Opera 24.0
    Antivirus
    Avast Internet Security
First: This has morphed into a great thread.

I'm aware of the 1 [SUP]1[/SUP]/[SUB]2[/SUB] X principle, but that goes back a long time and I would like to think that Windows' memory management is more sophisticated by now.

Original reason for asking is that simple File Manager operations, like opening Task Manager, opening a Control Panel item take a long time - as much as 10 seconds - on a malware-free machine. I thought perhaps the paging file might be behind it, but evidentally not.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
Setting the initial pagefile to 1.5 X RAM size is a very old idea and was modified in Vista and later. Now with larger RAM size the pagefile will only be equal to RAM size. This reflected the fact that RAM sizes are much larger now than when XP was released. XP would run (not well) with only 64 MB RAM and it needed a substantial pagefile.

The size of pagefile that is needed (for memory management purposes) depends almost entirely on the workload. But since Windows has no idea what the workload is and the pagefile size must be set to something, it sets the initial size to something related to RAM size. The idea is to ensure that the size will be adequate and with a reasonable workload that will almost always be the case. With a large RAM size and a modest workload it may well be larger than necessary but that will have no issues, other than wasting what is usually an insignificant amount of disk space. Of course with an SSD it may not be insignificant and in that case the pagefile size can usually be reduced.

Edit: Pagefile access should not normally impact performance unless you are seriously short on RAM. The pagefile is not some kind of overflow area used only when RAM runs short. It is used in an ongoing role as a place to store data that has not been recently used. Freed from the burden of holding static data more is available for more important purposes. This usually improves performance.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
In actuality, the 1.5 times was actually obsolete with XP/2003 if your system had more than 1GB of RAM (you can check the size of the paging file on XP or 2003 if it's set to let Windows manage - it will be 1x RAM if RAM is > 1GB), but yes it's a relic from NT4 and older days when systems didn't have resources available to do work without requiring the additional backing of a paging file. The paging file allows for a larger commit limit (most folks don't run their systems out of RAM these days without an app displaying a memory leak of some kind) as all committed pages must be backed, and it allows for capturing a memory dump if a DedicatedDumpFile location is not configured in the registry. It is also for paging out dirty memory pages (pages on the Modified or Standby lists, basically) if memory pressure exists, although on large RAM systems used for everyday use I don't see this except in rare cases anymore.

There are some apps (mostly older, but they exist) that will complain if they don't find a paging file, but they're also rare. In my experience, 1GB is a good size for systems with 32GB of RAM or less to capture a kernel memory dump, although in certain scenarios this may need to be tweaked if the kernel memory footprint grows larger - I see this on heavily used file servers and Hyper-V servers, for instance). There's not a hard and fast number, of course, as kernel memory footprint is somewhat dynamic since Vista and the advent of 64bit Windows, but if you're running 32GB of RAM or less on a "normal" system for home or business use, 1GB is most often more than enough to capture a kernel memory dump and allow the memory manager to keep things working properly otherwise.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.5GHz
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus Hero VII
    Memory
    32GB DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GeForce GTX970
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Hard Drives
    1x Samsung 250GB SSD
    4x WD RE 2TB (RAIDZ)
    PSU
    Corsair AX760i
    Case
    Fractal Design Define R4
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15
I could be wrong on what I say, but I honestly believe that Microsoft could do away with the Page File (which used to be called Swap File)if they wanted to. I believe that the reason MS originally came up with the Swap File was because RAM was so expensive. At one time if you had 4GB of RAM it was considered a lot. So instead of using installed RAM they came up with the Swap File which would use disk space instead of RAM. Now that we have so much installed RAM, it makes me wonder if the Page File is really necessary.Having said that, I realize that I could be incorrect in my easement of things.I would like someone else's thinking on this. I promise that I will not be offended if someone tells me that I am not entirely correct. I'm used to it--my wife tells me that all the time.:):p
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion g7-120us Notebook
    Memory
    8 GIG
I migrated straight from XP Pro to Windows 8 Pro.

Thanks for all the info on Ram & Pagefile size. :)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1.1 Pro with Media Center
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Gateway
    CPU
    AMD K140 Cores 2 Threads 2 Name AMD K140 Package Socket FT1 BGA Technology 40nm
    Motherboard
    Manufacturer Gateway Model SX2110G (P0)
    Memory
    Type DDR3 Size 8192 MBytes DRAM Frequency 532.3 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI AMD Radeon HD 7310 Graphics
    Sound Card
    AMD High Definition Audio Device Realtek High Definition Audio USB Audio Device
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Name 1950W on AMD Radeon HD 7310 Graphics Current Resolution 1366x768 pixels Work Resolution 1366x76
    Screen Resolution
    Current Resolution 1366x768 pixels Work Resolution 1366x768 pixels
    Hard Drives
    AMD K140
    Cores 2
    Threads 2
    Name AMD K140
    Package Socket FT1 BGA
    Technology 40nm
    Specification AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon HD Graphics
    Family F
    Extended Family 14
    Model 2
    Extended Model 2
    Stepping 0
    Revision ON-C0
    Instruction
    Browser
    Opera 24.0
    Antivirus
    Avast Internet Security
I could be wrong on what I say, but I honestly believe that Microsoft could do away with the Page File (which used to be called Swap File)if they wanted to. I believe that the reason MS originally came up with the Swap File was because RAM was so expensive. At one time if you had 4GB of RAM it was considered a lot. So instead of using installed RAM they came up with the Swap File which would use disk space instead of RAM. Now that we have so much installed RAM, it makes me wonder if the Page File is really necessary.Having said that, I realize that I could be incorrect in my easement of things.I would like someone else's thinking on this. I promise that I will not be offended if someone tells me that I am not entirely correct. I'm used to it--my wife tells me that all the time.

Microsoft could of course do away with the pagefile if they wished. But with technology as it current stands, and is likely to be in the foreseeable future, that is unlikely to happen anytime soon. It provides too many advantages at too low a cost.

In the System dialog box Microsoft describes the pagefile as:
"A paging file is an area on the hard disk that Windows uses as if it were RAM."
It isn't that the statement is really wrong, just that people have taken such an extremely literal interpretation of what is actually a very crude description. I believe that Microsoft has taken a great deal of unwarranted criticism because of that one statement.

The way in which the pagefile is actually used is really very complex. It optimizes the use of RAM, however much you might have. I will not attempt to describe the operation of the pagefile beyond what I already have in this thread. When you really understand this the value of the pagefile becomes very clear.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
Good posts.

Today, the 1.5x rule doesn't apply anymore. As I said, from examples, system managed for 16GB ram is just 8GB on a HDD and 5GB on a SSD. So the pagefile is size-aware (not too big please) and also ssd-aware (smaller if you can).

The file swapfile.sys is for the hybrid boot and has nothing (or almost nothing) to do with the pagefile.sys....

:) But this is what I wanted to hear:
There are some apps (mostly older, but they exist) that will complain if they don't find a paging file, but they're also rare. In my experience, 1GB is a good size for systems with 32GB of RAM or less to capture a kernel memory dump, although in certain scenarios this may need to be tweaked if the kernel memory footprint grows larger - I see this on heavily used file servers and Hyper-V servers, for instance). There's not a hard and fast number, of course, as kernel memory footprint is somewhat dynamic since Vista and the advent of 64bit Windows, but if you're running 32GB of RAM or less on a "normal" system for home or business use, 1GB is most often more than enough to capture a kernel memory dump and allow the memory manager to keep things working properly otherwise.

1GB works fine for 16GB ram, it's confirmed. :thumb:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 x64
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Envy DV6 7250
    CPU
    Intel i7-3630QM
    Motherboard
    HP, Intel HM77 Express Chipset
    Memory
    16GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel HD4000 + Nvidia Geforce 630M
    Sound Card
    IDT HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.6' built-in + Samsung S22D300 + 17.3' LG Phillips
    Screen Resolution
    multiple resolutions
    Hard Drives
    Samsung SSD 250GB + Hitachi HDD 750GB
    PSU
    120W adapter
    Case
    small
    Cooling
    laptop cooling pad
    Keyboard
    Backlit built-in + big one in USB
    Mouse
    SteelSeries Sensei
    Internet Speed
    slow and steady
    Browser
    Chromium, Pale Moon, Firefox Developer Edition
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    That's basically it.
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