Copy files over temporary LAN between Intra-HomeGroup PCs

milindsmart

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31
I have a Desktop and a Laptop, both wirelessly connected to a router, and part of a HomeGroup. Sharing over HomeGroup works like a breeze. Occasionally I need to copy something large between the 2, so I connect an Ethernet cable.

To actually transfer the files, currently I have to :
  1. disconnect wifi from both, else step 3 won't work
  2. assign 192.0.0.0/24 addresses to each of them, setting no gateway
  3. try to browse the network, upon which I can force the conversion of network type to private
  4. upon which I might still have to manually type in the IP address in UNC format (\\192.168.1.3\)
  5. I have to authenticate as my user account on the other machine
  6. Then I have to share the required folders... Sometimes "pulling" the files doesn't work, upon which I have to assign write permissions onto a folder on the destination computer and "push" the files. Ugliest thing I have encountered.

I hate this process with a passion, because I have to do it every time. I have no clue how or why Windows decides a particular network to be "Identified" or "Unidentified". I would like some way of forcing Windows to treat all PC-to-PC connections as private (this arrangement is obviously VERY private, about as private as it gets), so that sharing is enabled, and so that it is recognized as a part of the HomeGroup, and then if I change the order of preference to Ethernet > WiFi, I should be able to have it automatically transfer over WiFi+Ethernet, just WiFi, or just Ethernet depending on which link is up....

One can dream :) But still, any improvement over this process will be welcome.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
While I am at it, I would love to use IPv6 for this... But that's a bonus, and I'm sure I can adapt whatever solution is eventually found.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
You do it just like you always have. Find the Network share on the other computer, connect to it, then drag and drop. Homegroup is just a idea from Microsoft that has never worked correct from day one. It is only for secured Library sharing, between those you only want access to those libraries.

Basically Homegroup was made in an attempt to dummyproof their OS, which in turned failed miserably. That is why Network sharing is still the preferred way of connecting between computers on a network.
 

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    A/V UPS - Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD 1500 Va/900 W.
I would have to disagree about HomeGroups, because that's the only reason currently sharing actually works reasonably reliably. Otherwise it was a pain to debug why it was not connecting, and when it did, it never seemed to remember the login credentials.... But maybe that was vista..

Nevertheless, neither home group nor "normal" sharing is possible when I'm on a direct lan connection between the 2 computers because each only gets a link local IP address. So it's unidentified, so it's public, and hence no network discovery.... Finding out which IP address was assigned and then doing it manually is far too much work to be replicated each time.... I want some way for windows to remember the network, to start with.
 

My Computer

System One

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    Windows 8.1 Pro
You need a Router first thing. Using ICS to take the place of a router is always going to fail. You can disagree all you want about Home Group. But it was never intended to be used in this kind of setup.

First you need to get a router. Second you need to not use Homegroup and use conventional Network sharing.
 

My Computer

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  • OS
    Linux Mint 17.2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite C850D-st3nx1
    CPU
    AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon (tm) HD Graphics 1.40 GHZ
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    12GB
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    AMD Radeon™ HD 7310 Graphics
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    Logitech M525
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    45/6 - ATT U-Verse
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    Arris NVG589 Gateway; Router - Cisco RV320; Switch - Netgear GS108 8-Port Switch & Trendnet TEG-S50g 5-Port Switch; Access Points - Engenius ECB350, Trendnet TEW-638APB; NAS - Lenovo ix2-4; Printer - Brother HL-2280DW; Air Print Server - Lantronix XPrintServer

    A/V UPS - Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD 1500 Va/900 W.
Since you already have a router, it seems it would work better if you would use 2 ethernet cables and connect each machine to the router. I regularly connect an ethernet cable to one of my machines that normally connects via wifi and don't need to make any changes. I would think that it would work just as easily connecting 2 machines.
 

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    Retired in 2015 after working in the tech industry for 41 years. First 10 years as a Technician, the rest as a programmer/software engineer. After 1 year of retirement, I was bored so went back to work as a Robotic Process Automation Consultant. Retired for 3rd (and final) time in 2019.
Since you already have a router, it seems it would work better if you would use 2 ethernet cables and connect each machine to the router. I regularly connect an ethernet cable to one of my machines that normally connects via wifi and don't need to make any changes. I would think that it would work just as easily connecting 2 machines.
I do not even think that will solve their problem. There is more to this story why one way works, and one doesn't when connecting to the router.

Sounds like they are trying to do something that is not normally done.
 

My Computer

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    Linux Mint 17.2
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    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite C850D-st3nx1
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    AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon (tm) HD Graphics 1.40 GHZ
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    12GB
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    Arris NVG589 Gateway; Router - Cisco RV320; Switch - Netgear GS108 8-Port Switch & Trendnet TEG-S50g 5-Port Switch; Access Points - Engenius ECB350, Trendnet TEW-638APB; NAS - Lenovo ix2-4; Printer - Brother HL-2280DW; Air Print Server - Lantronix XPrintServer

    A/V UPS - Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD 1500 Va/900 W.
My desktop is far away from the router, which is why I put a wireless card in, and that's why it connects through WiFi to the router. Dragging a cable all around the house is a pain, though I'd prefer it. It's not near to the router, so signal is 3/5 Max, usually 2. That's why I want to use a cable to speed up transfers... I don't have a gigabit router, but both NICs are gigabit. 100Mbps is just not enough.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
I'd be tempted to use "sneaker net" for those times when you need to copy large files. Attach an external USB drive to source computer, copy the file(s), carry the drive and plug it in to the target computer, copy file(s) to target. Not the most high tech method but it will get the job done.
 

My Computer

System One

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    W10 Pro (desktop), W10 (laptop), W10 Pro (tablet)
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    Home built i7-8700K, Hp Envy x360 EVO Laptop, MS Surface Pro 7
    CPU
    3.7Ghz Core i7-8700K, 11th Gen Core i7-1165G7 4.7Ghz, 10th Gen Core™ i5-1035G4 1.1Ghz
    Motherboard
    ASUS TUF Z370-Pro Gaming, HP, MS
    Memory
    16G, 8G, 8G
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon RX580, Intel Iris X Graphics, Intel Iris Plus Graphics G4
    Sound Card
    ATI High Definition Audio (Built-in to mobo)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dual Samsung U32J59 32 inch monitors, 13.3" display, 12.3" display
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160 (Desktop), 1920x1080 (laptop), 2736x1824 Pro 7
    Hard Drives
    500GB ssd boot drive with 2 & 10TB Data (Desktop), 512GB ssd (laptop), 128GB SSD (tablet)
    PSU
    Corsair CX 750M
    Case
    Antec 100
    Cooling
    Coolermaster CM 212+
    Keyboard
    IBM Model M - used continuously since 1986
    Mouse
    Microsoft IntelliMouse
    Internet Speed
    665Mbps/15Mbps down/up
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    Retired in 2015 after working in the tech industry for 41 years. First 10 years as a Technician, the rest as a programmer/software engineer. After 1 year of retirement, I was bored so went back to work as a Robotic Process Automation Consultant. Retired for 3rd (and final) time in 2019.
Unfortunately I don't have a large portable drive. I do have an external powered drive, more accurately called "semi-portable", which only has eSATA and USB 2.0 interfaces... I use eSATA with my desktop, but don't have that port on my laptop, so I have to USB 2.0. It's slow, much less than the theoretical limit, and keeps getting slower as the copy operation proceeds.

In fact, your method makes more sense now than I thought, and will resort to it when needed, thanks. Still, a faster method would be better.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
I would have to disagree about HomeGroups, because that's the only reason currently sharing actually works reasonably reliably. Otherwise it was a pain to debug why it was not connecting, and when it did, it never seemed to remember the login credentials.... But maybe that was vista..

Nevertheless, neither home group nor "normal" sharing is possible when I'm on a direct lan connection between the 2 computers because each only gets a link local IP address. So it's unidentified, so it's public, and hence no network discovery.... Finding out which IP address was assigned and then doing it manually is far too much work to be replicated each time.... I want some way for windows to remember the network, to start with.

What you need to do is set up a good old Peer to Peer network, "Work Group"with a User set up on both computer that are the same , then set your shares to Authorized Users only. Just Goggle Peer to Peer LAN you'll get tons of information. Home group sucks I never could get it to work. Then I have had a Peer to Peer network since Window 2000 so maybe I just not wanting too. I like having full control over my computers.

Set up your router to assign specific IP address's for each computer on the network.

Even with a gigabyte LAN large file transfers over wireless are going to be slow, but you could use some file syncing program so you wouldn't have to sit there and manual transfer files.
 

My Computer

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    Windows 8.1 Pro MC
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    Samsung 850 Pro 256, Samsung 850 Pro 1TB
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    30 down 3 up
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But how do I get the IP addresses set? There is no router as far as the Ethernet cable goes.... It's a direct connection. How do I get it to take a sane IP address automatically?

And I certainly don't have Gigabyte LAN, more like 150Mbps. I'm talking about 1000BASE-T direct cable (Both my NICs have Auto MDI/MDI-X, so no crossover cable required).
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
But how do I get the IP addresses set? There is no router as far as the Ethernet cable goes.... It's a direct connection. How do I get it to take a sane IP address automatically?

And I certainly don't have Gigabyte LAN, more like 150Mbps. I'm talking about 1000BASE-T direct cable (Both my NICs have Auto MDI/MDI-X, so no crossover cable required).

I'm Sorry I have no idea how to network PC to PC directly with out a router. Back in the old days I used a program call Laplink or something like that I think there are a few program out there that will do this for you.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro MC
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus G75VW / Z97 Pro
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-3610QM / I7-4790K
    Motherboard
    Z97 Pro
    Memory
    16 GB Hyundai HTM315156CFR8C-PB PC3-12800
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVIDIA GeForce GTX 670M (GF114M)
    Sound Card
    VIA 6.0.10.1600
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    1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 850 Pro 256, Samsung 850 Pro 1TB
    Internet Speed
    30 down 3 up
    Browser
    Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    NIS and Malwarebytes
But how do I get the IP addresses set? There is no router as far as the Ethernet cable goes.... It's a direct connection. How do I get it to take a sane IP address automatically?

And I certainly don't have Gigabyte LAN, more like 150Mbps. I'm talking about 1000BASE-T direct cable (Both my NICs have Auto MDI/MDI-X, so no crossover cable required).

This should help: Chip - India's Most Trusted Guide To Gadgets And Technology > Networking At Home > Articles

Bottom part of article talks about setting the IPs.
 

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Depending on if you have a Wireless-G or Wireless-N adapter. It is going to transfer at the same rate pretty much as a wired connection. Just keep the computers connected, and either connect them through Ethernet, or just use Wifi. Stop trying to make more difficult, out of something that has been done for decades.

You really will never notice, unless you are one of these clock watcher types, that sit in front of the computer and watch it move data. I can send around 5gb of data in less than 5 minutes from my laptop to my NAS, across my wireless-N 300mb/s network, with the NAS hooked up to my gateway through a 1000mb/s Ethernet connection with no issues.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Mint 17.2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite C850D-st3nx1
    CPU
    AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon (tm) HD Graphics 1.40 GHZ
    Memory
    12GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon™ HD 7310 Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1366 x 768
    Hard Drives
    Crucial M500 240GB SSD
    Mouse
    Logitech M525
    Internet Speed
    45/6 - ATT U-Verse
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    None needed. It is Linux.
    Other Info
    Arris NVG589 Gateway; Router - Cisco RV320; Switch - Netgear GS108 8-Port Switch & Trendnet TEG-S50g 5-Port Switch; Access Points - Engenius ECB350, Trendnet TEW-638APB; NAS - Lenovo ix2-4; Printer - Brother HL-2280DW; Air Print Server - Lantronix XPrintServer

    A/V UPS - Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD 1500 Va/900 W.
This should help: Chip - India's Most Trusted Guide To Gadgets And Technology > Networking At Home > Articles

Bottom part of article talks about setting the IPs.

That is manual setting up of IPs for a connection that is going to be permanent. Mine would be temporary.

Depending on if you have a Wireless-G or Wireless-N adapter. It is going to transfer at the same rate pretty much as a wired connection. Just keep the computers connected, and either connect them through Ethernet, or just use Wifi. Stop trying to make more difficult, out of something that has been done for decades.

You really will never notice, unless you are one of these clock watcher types, that sit in front of the computer and watch it move data. I can send around 5gb of data in less than 5 minutes from my laptop to my NAS, across my wireless-N 300mb/s network, with the NAS hooked up to my gateway through a 1000mb/s Ethernet connection with no issues.

It should not be very different, but in practice I get 50 MBps on GigE, while I get only 5 MBps on WiFi. Due to location, BOTH the devices will have to be quite far from the WiFi router... I have tried it and makes for a long slow and irritating file transfer.

Besides all this, I sometimes am a "clock watcher", or more accurately a progress bar watcher, and I find underutilized communication pathways an irritant. Let's please not go there, debating "Use the convenient option, it's fast enough, unless you're needlessly obsessive".
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
In a lab environment yes. In the real world, no. Suggest not rewriting the book, and just set up the network how you want it. Then do everything that way. Of course you could upgrade to Wireless-ac with the expense for doing so. And then have Gb speeds across wifi.

Remember that individual hardware is where you run into the slowdowns (hard drives, CPU, wifi chipset, router, NAS hardware).
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Mint 17.2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite C850D-st3nx1
    CPU
    AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon (tm) HD Graphics 1.40 GHZ
    Memory
    12GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon™ HD 7310 Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1366 x 768
    Hard Drives
    Crucial M500 240GB SSD
    Mouse
    Logitech M525
    Internet Speed
    45/6 - ATT U-Verse
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    None needed. It is Linux.
    Other Info
    Arris NVG589 Gateway; Router - Cisco RV320; Switch - Netgear GS108 8-Port Switch & Trendnet TEG-S50g 5-Port Switch; Access Points - Engenius ECB350, Trendnet TEW-638APB; NAS - Lenovo ix2-4; Printer - Brother HL-2280DW; Air Print Server - Lantronix XPrintServer

    A/V UPS - Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD 1500 Va/900 W.
expensive wireless-ac instead of cheap gigE ethernet cable? no thanks.

In this case my slowdown is definitely due to the network.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
expensive wireless-ac instead of cheap gigE ethernet cable? no thanks.

In this case my slowdown is definitely due to the network.
Did I state that you had to go right out and get Wireless-ac equipment? No. As for Cheap Ethernet cables. That will cause more problems than it is worth. Using Wireless-n Dual Channel/Dual-Band, will work just fine if you do not want to connect say a laptop or cannot connect a desktop to the switch.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux Mint 17.2
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Toshiba Satellite C850D-st3nx1
    CPU
    AMD E1-1200 APU with Radeon (tm) HD Graphics 1.40 GHZ
    Memory
    12GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon™ HD 7310 Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD
    Monitor(s) Displays
    LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1366 x 768
    Hard Drives
    Crucial M500 240GB SSD
    Mouse
    Logitech M525
    Internet Speed
    45/6 - ATT U-Verse
    Browser
    Google Chrome
    Antivirus
    None needed. It is Linux.
    Other Info
    Arris NVG589 Gateway; Router - Cisco RV320; Switch - Netgear GS108 8-Port Switch & Trendnet TEG-S50g 5-Port Switch; Access Points - Engenius ECB350, Trendnet TEW-638APB; NAS - Lenovo ix2-4; Printer - Brother HL-2280DW; Air Print Server - Lantronix XPrintServer

    A/V UPS - Tripp-Lite Smart 1500LCD 1500 Va/900 W.
Broe23, please just take it from me, I want an optimal solution for this, not just settle for what is easily doable. Being long, troublesome, inconvenient in the short term is fine by me, if I can get to a qualitatively better solution. After all, I'm the kind of guy who does Boot Windows 7/8 from GPT on BIOS system : No hybrid MBRs or DUET! - Windows 7 Help Forums because I want to avail the benefits of a new partitioning scheme without having new firmware, despite Microsoft saying that it's not supported.

I don't have a dual-band router, else maybe I'd have taken your advice. I only have Wifi-N 300Mbps. Trust me, that is just not enough.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
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