Solved What are the effects of bad sectors on installations

Bkshiroma

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I've had some major problems with Windows 8 recently, I'll start with the questions, and give the story later if you're interested.

1. Does the Windows 8 installation disk do a quick format or a full format that deals with bad sectors before installing?

2. If Windows 8 tries to install files on a bad sector will it cause the installation to hang?

3. Related question: If Windows 8 tries to do updates on a bad sector, can it cause a system crash and BSODs?

4. Second related question: Are there any known issues with certain windows update files crashing systems (for Windows 8)? If so, which ones are crashing the systems?


The story:

I had a major crash with Windows 8.1 where after many fruitless attempts to salvage the system, I ended up reinstalling.

I did this about 3 or 4 times, and each time, things ended up with a crash, sometimes after 2 days, sometimes after 3.

I finally definitively figured out that Windows Update was causing the crash. Unfortunately, I still don't know which one did it. What I do know is that some updates went fine, others caused crashes.

After the last crash, Windows went into a repair loop that I couldn't get out of. It would try an automatic repair, fail, and reboot.

What's worse is that my computer would not recognize the rescue disk or the Windows install disk, and ultimately (30 or 40 minutes later), send things into yet another fruitless reboot.

I finally used Knoppix to zero out the drive, which allowed the Windows install disk to run, but when I tried to install, I had more adventures.

1. Windows tried to install, but it gave me an error and didn't install.
2. Windows then was unable to format the disk, either through the install disk or through DOS.
3. The partition was turned into a "Raw partition" and I wasn't even able to do a chkdsk.

I then used badblocks, and that allowed me to format the drive through the installation disk, but once again, the installation failed. Or let me put it this way, 8 hours after it started, it still was trying to install.

Then this morning, I formatted with the Windows install disk again, and miraculously everything installed in 30 minutes like it was supposed to.

When I get home tonight, I'm going to try to do a chkdsk to check for errors. Actually, if there's anything else I should do, please let me know.

I've also turned off Windows update since that has been causing all these problems.

Comments?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
I've also turned off Windows update since that has been causing all these problems.

Comments?

Good idea for you for now, but the reasoning is wrong.

The updates aren't the issue (Windows ones I mean - device drivers are a possibility). The state of the system while doing the updates is.

Poor drivers/poor antivirus/missing drivers - any of the above sets a system off.

Other than that, it's advised to get device drivers from the manufacturers' websites and install from there, instead of letting Windows Update install. (That update mechanism has been known to install very old drivers, wrong drivers and the like.)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7601.18247.x86fre.win7sp1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self-built Intel based
    CPU
    Pentium D 925 3.0 GHz socket 775, Presler @ ~ 3.2 GHz
    Motherboard
    Intel DQ965MT
    Memory
    Hyundai 2 GB DDR2 @ 333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS DirectCU II HD7790-DC2OC-2GD5 Radeon HD 7790 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5
    Sound Card
    MOTU Traveler firewire interface
    Hard Drives
    1 Seagate Barracuda SATA II system/boot drive 80 GB, 2 Western Digital hdds - 1 is SATA II Caviar Black 1 TB attached to card (assorted media, page, temp), other is SATA I 420 GB (games, media, downloads)
    PSU
    Thermaltake 450W
    Cooling
    stock Gateway cooling, extra large fan in rear of case
    Keyboard
    Alienware/Microsoft Internet kb
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Internet Speed
    Optimum Online, fast for US
    Browser
    Pale Moon
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky integrated into ZoneAlarm+Antivirus
The last time, I did an update after an installation, I only installed the printer drivers and the chipset drivers and software, all from the manufacturer, all updated so far as I know. Nothing else was loaded onto the computer.

I'm not sure what Windows tried to install. I think a lot of it was .net framework stuff, and a few other things. It still crashed.

How can I tell which are the the actual Windows updates as opposed to other device driver updates and the like?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
1. Does the Windows 8 installation disk do a quick format or a full format that deals with bad sectors before installing?

2. If Windows 8 tries to install files on a bad sector will it cause the installation to hang?

3. Related question: If Windows 8 tries to do updates on a bad sector, can it cause a system crash and BSODs?

If when writing to disk a bad sector is found it is skipped so if you install the installation will deal with it and move on to use the next one. Writing zero will do the same thing as installation or writing any other data - if the sector is bad it is marked as bad and moves on. A bad sector wouldn't cause installation to hang and it doesn't matter if a full or quick format is done.

In fact usually a format is not done when installing - rather windows directory is renamed windows.old and a new directory C:\Windows is written to the disk.

When you see issues is when the sector becoming bad afterwards. If it was identified as bad at the install time it just wouldn't be used. So the answer to 3 is yes - if you try to update a bad sector it can cause issues.

By all means do chkdsk but remember it can take many hours to complete.

I've installed win 8 many times and never had any issues with windows update (luckily) so I don't know about that part.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro Prieview x64
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    MacBook Pro Core2Duo
    CPU
    T7600
    Memory
    3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon X1600
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Internal
    Screen Resolution
    1440 x 800
    Hard Drives
    40GB
    Keyboard
    Apple
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    Apple
    Internet Speed
    Varies
    Browser
    Various
    Antivirus
    Defender
It may be advisable to go to the drive manufacturers web site and look for a free diagnostics utility. Then run that to see how bad the drive actually is. How old is this drive? If it has a lot of bad sectors on it I'd replace it. Odds are if its a old drive with lots of use you'll just get more and more bad sectors showing up and that will just cause problems for Windows.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2
It's a new drive, just bought it last year.

I took a look at the 81 updates, by the way, and none of them seem device related. All of them have to do with net framework, security issues, etc.

Did a chkdsk, but couldn't see the results. I tried to get into event viewer, but after clicking on the application, nothing happened. Two questions:

1. How can I get event viewer to work?
2. Is there another way to find out the results of the chkdsk?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
By the way, if anyone has an answer on whether the install disk does a quick format or full format, I'd appreciate it. I know someone said that usually it doesn't format at all, but there is that option and because of the problems I've been having,I formatted before installing.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
By the way, if anyone has an answer on whether the install disk does a quick format or full format, I'd appreciate it. I know someone said that usually it doesn't format at all, but there is that option and because of the problems I've been having,I formatted before installing.

If your dropping sectors with that hard drive your fighting a losing battle.
Use the Manufacture diagnostic tools you may need to RMA that hard drive.
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro MC
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus G75VW / Z97 Pro
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-3610QM / I7-4790K
    Motherboard
    Z97 Pro
    Memory
    16 GB Hyundai HTM315156CFR8C-PB PC3-12800
    Graphics Card(s)
    nVIDIA GeForce GTX 670M (GF114M)
    Sound Card
    VIA 6.0.10.1600
    Screen Resolution
    1080
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 850 Pro 256, Samsung 850 Pro 1TB
    Internet Speed
    30 down 3 up
    Browser
    Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    NIS and Malwarebytes
The install does a quick format, otherwise the low level format/chkdsk would take several hours at least on a 1TB HDD besides the system install. Your best doing a low level check and let it mark bad sectors.

Thing is, if new bad sectors keep appearing with chkdsk, you have a dying HDD.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer V3 771G-6443
    CPU
    i5-3230m
    Motherboard
    Acer VA70_HC (U3E1)
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 PC3-12800 (800 MHz)
    Graphics Card(s)
    HD4000 + GeForce GT 730M
    Sound Card
    Realtek High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    17" Generic PnP Display on Intel HD Graphics 4000
    Screen Resolution
    1600x900 pixels
    Hard Drives
    Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250 GB
    ADATA SSD SP900 128GB
    PSU
    90 watt brick
    Mouse
    Bluetooth
    Antivirus
    Comodo
    Other Info
    Asus RT-AC56R dual-band WRT router (Merlin firmware). Intel 7260.HMWWB.R dual-band ac wireless adapter.
Thanks for the replies all. The truth is, I don't know what the problem is. I'm suspicious, but I don't know the cause of all the problems. If there were errors, the regular Windows check didn't find it (the new Windows 8 error checking tool), and I don't know if chkdsk has found anything because I can't get into the event log. Like I said though, it's a new hard drive that I just bought last year. Can it corrupt that quickly?

What I also know is that a ton of other people have had the same problems as me. I was just looking on the Microsoft forum today, and many other people have recently posted with the exact same complaints concerning Windows Update and crashes. So it could be a Windows Update thing.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
So it could be a Windows Update thing.

No. :geek:

The updates aren't the issue (Windows ones I mean - device drivers are a possibility). The state of the system while doing the updates is.

Poor drivers/poor antivirus/missing drivers - any of the above sets a system off.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7601.18247.x86fre.win7sp1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self-built Intel based
    CPU
    Pentium D 925 3.0 GHz socket 775, Presler @ ~ 3.2 GHz
    Motherboard
    Intel DQ965MT
    Memory
    Hyundai 2 GB DDR2 @ 333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS DirectCU II HD7790-DC2OC-2GD5 Radeon HD 7790 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5
    Sound Card
    MOTU Traveler firewire interface
    Hard Drives
    1 Seagate Barracuda SATA II system/boot drive 80 GB, 2 Western Digital hdds - 1 is SATA II Caviar Black 1 TB attached to card (assorted media, page, temp), other is SATA I 420 GB (games, media, downloads)
    PSU
    Thermaltake 450W
    Cooling
    stock Gateway cooling, extra large fan in rear of case
    Keyboard
    Alienware/Microsoft Internet kb
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Internet Speed
    Optimum Online, fast for US
    Browser
    Pale Moon
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky integrated into ZoneAlarm+Antivirus
I appreciate your defense of Windows, but there was no antivirus program on my computer the final time I installed the updates aside from Windows defender. No firewall either. For that matter, I had installed no other programs. And the only drivers I had installed were the chipset drivers and the printer drivers, all straight from their source and up to date. I had no problems until I tried to update.

In the second to last crash, everything was working perfectly for a few days. I had my suspicions by then about Windows update, and was holding off on installing them. When I did, BSOD and everything went to hell.

Don't know what else I can say.

By the way, speaking of viruses, shouldn't refreshes, and installations, and for that matter the quick format the installation uses get rid of any potential viruses that may have crept on the disk? (I'm pretty sure I didn't have any, though."
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
It's not "defense of Windows" but rather it's the results and observations of 10s of thousands of machines fixed online over the years, mostly in regards to stop errors.

If Windows Updates causes an issue on a machine, that machine was not well to begin with. (WU installing a poor driver, aside.)

If you have a bsod issue, you're welcome to see the BSOD subforum and post there, where we will straighten the machine out easily.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7601.18247.x86fre.win7sp1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self-built Intel based
    CPU
    Pentium D 925 3.0 GHz socket 775, Presler @ ~ 3.2 GHz
    Motherboard
    Intel DQ965MT
    Memory
    Hyundai 2 GB DDR2 @ 333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS DirectCU II HD7790-DC2OC-2GD5 Radeon HD 7790 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5
    Sound Card
    MOTU Traveler firewire interface
    Hard Drives
    1 Seagate Barracuda SATA II system/boot drive 80 GB, 2 Western Digital hdds - 1 is SATA II Caviar Black 1 TB attached to card (assorted media, page, temp), other is SATA I 420 GB (games, media, downloads)
    PSU
    Thermaltake 450W
    Cooling
    stock Gateway cooling, extra large fan in rear of case
    Keyboard
    Alienware/Microsoft Internet kb
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Internet Speed
    Optimum Online, fast for US
    Browser
    Pale Moon
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky integrated into ZoneAlarm+Antivirus
Thank you, but no thank you. I've had enough BSODs in the last month caused by Windows update. If I get another somehow, someway, I'll definitely make my way there. But I've invited enough trouble into my computer through updates after five installs, refreshes, etc. I have no desire to update windows, have it crash (and it will crash) and then go to the board trying to find out the exact problem. I simply don't have the time or the desire to go through this anymore.

Who knows, it really might be a hard drive problem. If so, I'm sure that will be made clear over the next year.

Of course if you would like to come down to Japan (at your expense of course :p) work on my machine and prove me wrong that it isn't a Windows Update problem, by all means, please do. :geek:

Like I said, I appreciate all the comments. Please don't get me wrong if my frustrations seem to bubble out at times. It's not at you or anyone else who I know is only trying to be helpful. It's more at the situation and the lost hours and literally days I've spent trying to sort out all these problems.

Thanks for all your help Master Chief, and everyone else. By the way, if anyone else has any other ideas or thoughts, I'm all ears.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
By the way, Master Chief, is it possible to do a quick format of a drive (as done by the installation disk), install Windows from the disk, and still have problems with poor or missing drivers that would cause Windows Update to misfire? If so, what drivers exactly should I be looking for?

One other thing, since adamf pointed out that Windows shouldn't hang during installation because of bad sectors, what else could cause a hang during installation? It happened to me twice, once after I zeroed out the drive, and once just before it finally managed to install correctly.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
Thank you, but no thank you. I've had enough BSODs in the last month caused by Windows update.

No you didn't, heh heh.

I don't need to go to Japan, although if I could go to any foreign country, that would probably be high on the list. All I'd need is what Brink shows to do. It's not really in your best interest to leave a Windows machine unpatched like that.

By the way, Master Chief, is it possible to do a quick format of a drive (as done by the installation disk), install Windows from the disk, and still have problems with poor or missing drivers that would cause Windows Update to misfire? If so, what drivers exactly should I be looking for?

You can force a bsod on purpose, then post the logs made from the tool in the previous link I just gave. With that info, we can make the machine into 100% reliable and give it a seal of approval.

Quick format or any type of format at all can leave malware on the drive (if it existed to begin with, of course.) If any concern that there was or is malware, Killdisk is good to use to 0 out the drive before installing Windows to it. It is very rare to come across malware with rootkit drivers that cause bsods though.

A random example in your scenario is that ASUS machines are notorious for having old power management and USB charger drivers that are not well.

One other thing, since adamf pointed out that Windows shouldn't hang during installation because of bad sectors, what else could cause a hang during installation? It happened to me twice, once after I zeroed out the drive, and once just before it finally managed to install correctly.

A few things: Poor bios settings, poor install media, some graphics adapters under certain situations, certain mice....quite a few things, as random examples.

If we determine that there actually is a hard drive issue, there are tools and ways to even fix that.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7601.18247.x86fre.win7sp1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self-built Intel based
    CPU
    Pentium D 925 3.0 GHz socket 775, Presler @ ~ 3.2 GHz
    Motherboard
    Intel DQ965MT
    Memory
    Hyundai 2 GB DDR2 @ 333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS DirectCU II HD7790-DC2OC-2GD5 Radeon HD 7790 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5
    Sound Card
    MOTU Traveler firewire interface
    Hard Drives
    1 Seagate Barracuda SATA II system/boot drive 80 GB, 2 Western Digital hdds - 1 is SATA II Caviar Black 1 TB attached to card (assorted media, page, temp), other is SATA I 420 GB (games, media, downloads)
    PSU
    Thermaltake 450W
    Cooling
    stock Gateway cooling, extra large fan in rear of case
    Keyboard
    Alienware/Microsoft Internet kb
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Internet Speed
    Optimum Online, fast for US
    Browser
    Pale Moon
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky integrated into ZoneAlarm+Antivirus
So let me get this straight, if I force a BSOD using the keyboard and send the logs, you can find the problems that causes Windows update. You will then guarantee the next time I try to install Windows update that I will have no problems?

By the way, one of the problems with Windows update even after the repairs it attempts, is that it suddenly takes 5-20 minutes to load, after which it may or may not run smoothly. And that's assuming I'm not thrown into a endless repair loop that I need to use Knoppix to get out of.

Will I have those same problems after the keyboard crash? Most importantly, is it possible I'll get thrown into an endless repair loop? Or is it a low level crash that a simple reboot will fix?

If it's a low level crash, I'd be more open to that then generating a crash through Windows update.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
No, keyboard crash will be fine. You can boot right to Windows after without any event.

Yes, with crash logs, even from forcing a fake bsod, I can tell you what should be done to ensure perfect stability 100% without question in regards to software - and if there is a hardware issue, then we can determine about that and the best course of action to alleviate it.

If you have files already in C:\Windows\Minidump then forcing the keyboard bsod is unnecessary. In that case, simply run the tool from Brink's thread and post the results.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7601.18247.x86fre.win7sp1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self-built Intel based
    CPU
    Pentium D 925 3.0 GHz socket 775, Presler @ ~ 3.2 GHz
    Motherboard
    Intel DQ965MT
    Memory
    Hyundai 2 GB DDR2 @ 333 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS DirectCU II HD7790-DC2OC-2GD5 Radeon HD 7790 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5
    Sound Card
    MOTU Traveler firewire interface
    Hard Drives
    1 Seagate Barracuda SATA II system/boot drive 80 GB, 2 Western Digital hdds - 1 is SATA II Caviar Black 1 TB attached to card (assorted media, page, temp), other is SATA I 420 GB (games, media, downloads)
    PSU
    Thermaltake 450W
    Cooling
    stock Gateway cooling, extra large fan in rear of case
    Keyboard
    Alienware/Microsoft Internet kb
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Internet Speed
    Optimum Online, fast for US
    Browser
    Pale Moon
    Antivirus
    Kaspersky integrated into ZoneAlarm+Antivirus
All right, when I get home...not for another six or seven hours though, I'll give it a try. Here's hoping you can find the problem.

Thanks for your help and patience again.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
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