Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

the Cloud really is Cloud Cuckoo land

  1. #1

    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,374
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10

    the Cloud really is Cloud Cuckoo land

    Hi all
    Here's a little warning of what could happen if you start becoming too reliant on using "The Cloud".

    Twitter was forced to turn over a huge amount of its data to the FBI -- didn't matter if you were resident of a country not subject to the USA's internal policy or legislation.

    Maybe 99% of it was just ignored -- but the fact that 3rd parties can access supposedly private data at the drop of a hat should be a concern for everybody.

    I don't agree at all with "Child Porn" , "Terrorism" or in particular "In the Interest of Security" -- Whose I wonder !!, etc but these shouldn't become catchalls for instigating investigations just because some corporate big wig doesn't like what's being said about "his / her private life".

    (My whole take on sites like Twitter is if you are stupid enough to use these then you deserve everything you get -but that still doesn't excuse the entire database being made available to the FBI - especially when you are dealing with Non US citizens).

    I have no time for this particular group -- but you can see where the end point of this type of control can end.
    Twitter Forced To Hand Over Occupy Protestor's Tweets It Sought To Protect (latest news) | The Wall


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  2. #2

    Why anybody would think that The Cloud (or any online storage service) is private? All datas you put on the internet is public or at least the property of the company or organsiation managing the online storage service.
    Poeple using such service should read the agreement in full. Something nobody ever does. Even if they write that your datas will remain confidential and shouldn't be sold to any third party they know of the law loopholes to do whatever they want with them anyway.
    About Tweeter and the FBI I don't understand how this is relevant since the FBI has de facto access to tweeter messages just as anybody else. They gave the FBI the datas which are public anyway. They got it in a consolidated format to make it easier to searh through, but these datas are in no way private or protected by some privacy agreement since they were posted on the network for all to see already. The purpose of using Tweeter is that a maximum of poeple read your nonsens, so don;t be surprised if the FBI or the CIA or Interpol read it too.
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  3. #3

    Posts : 1,925
    Windows 8.1 Pro

    While I largely agree with your point Jimbo, your facts are wrong (what's new?). Twitter was only forced to turn over the tweets made by one person, not their entire database. In fact, Twitter fought very hard to protect the privacy of the individual, but were compelled by law to turn over the info.

    Before yelling about databases being turned over, you might want to get your facts straight.
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  4. #4

    Posts : 5,357
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin

    Are you sure?

    The company’s well-timed transparency report shows that Harris’ case is hardly unique. The 679 government requests Twitter has already complied with this year likely asked for identifying private information such as email addresses, direct messages and deleted tweets, too.

    The U.S. Government Asked Twitter To Hand Over Users' Data 679 Times So Far This Year - Forbes

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  5. #5

    Posts : 1,338
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 17.1 MATE (64 bit)

    Remember Megaupload?

    According to Dotcom, the only parties having been found so far to have violated the law in this case are New Zealand police, who a court found raided his house with an invalid order, and the FBI, which secretly made copies of Kim Dotcom’s computers and shipped them out of the country — contrary to court order.
    Megaupload Judge Steps Down After Declaring U.S. 'the Enemy' | Threat Level |
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  6. #6

    Posts : 354
    Windows Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V

    Jimbo - do you understand what "the cloud" is?
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  7. #7

    Posts : 5,707
    Windows 8.1 Pro

    There is also email, beware of that, ALL sorts of people can get ahold of that...
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  8. #8

    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,374
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10

    Quote Originally Posted by Kebero View Post
    Jimbo - do you understand what "the cloud" is?
    Hi there

    Whatever the "Corporate Management" definition is - and they'll usually find some idiotic "management project-ese" to describe it all it is in practice it's a big virtual black box (usually remote but not necessarily so - you can have a "Local Cloud" too but conceptually it's the same thing as the "Normal Cloud") containing servers / databases, storage arrays, applications etc etc. -- Nothing more -- nothing less.

    There's nothing conceptually different in running an application or storing data from / on a / an office LAN server to running the same over a WAN (Wide Area Network) or the Internet.

    For the end user sitting at a PC it wouldn't necessarily matter which method was used and if the user didn't know they probably couldn't tell either (assuming User GUI was the same and network speed adequate).

    However as these servers are OUTSIDE your direct control - anything can and does happen -- and in fact TWITTER had to turn over reams and reams of data to the FBI -- not just data on "requested names" -- they backed away from a Court case remember.

    (The TWITTER case is a reminder that this sort of thing might become more commonplace too --following on from the Megaupload case etc.).

    C'mon guy --do you really think the FBI is naïve enough to say to Twitter --"Thanks for the data on this individual -- now we'll go away".

    You can bet your last cent / eurocent / rouble /dinar or whatever that the FBI would have done pretty exhaustive searches obviously trawling through PRIVATE data of individuals (including NON US Citizens) who had no criminal records or anything else.

    Any thought of having a go at the FBI on the grounds of "Data protection Acts" would have been laughed out of Court anyway -- since the bog standard excuse "National Security" would be employed -- and I don't think the FBI have to explain to the Court - "What exactly is the Nature of the Security" either --certainly not in an open Court.

    @ Coke robot -- email as we all know is pretty public -- nobody with an iota of intelligence would either STORE or TRANSMIT anything confidential by that method. - In fact one of (if not the safest method ) the safest methods believe it or not is "Old Fashioned Snail Mail".

    Once an item has been placed in a US Mail box - even JC himself couldn't find it until it got to the other end --assuming the searcher knew in the first place what to look for.

    Actually in any "Hi Tech" War situation -- a vastly superior "Enemy" can often be defeated by individuals using "Very Old fashioned and Low_tech" methods. Once you become too dependent on Hi-tech then you are totally hosed up when it fails.

    A simple example of this -- and even the best CIA Langley code breaker couldn't do it is in the use of a "One Time Pad".

    Another example

    I have some colleagues who are totally at a loss when their Sat-Nav fails - and they haven't a CLUE about how to read a map or even survive out in the wilds for very long either. !!!

    Anyway that's enough Sunday morning Breakfast time reading for you --folks.

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  9. #9

    Posts : 142
    Windows 8 Enterprise 64-bit (7 Ult, Vista & XP in V-Box)

    Well, apart from email (I use Yahoo/Hotmail) in which I have NOTHING
    to hide, I will NOT store data or files online. Under ANY circumstances.

    I have NO reason to trust the US govt, quite the contrary, and I CERTAINLY
    don't trust mine. Just look at the privacy-breaching data-retention laws that
    our mob have just approved. Disgraceful behaviour by a govt in a supposedly-
    free country.

    External HDD storage is so cheap these days, WHY would anyone (home
    users, not corporates) trust their data to the cloud?

    I have NOTHING to hide, but EVERYTHING to fear. And so have
    on it.

    **EDIT: - You can almost guarantee that 'big-content' WILL have access to
    your files, and will be trawling for so-called 'illegal' downloads. Among other
    quasi-legal 'organisations'. Oh and let's not forget the criminally-inclined.**
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  10. #10

    Posts : 1,320
    Server 2012 / 8.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Kat View Post
    I have NOTHING to hide, but EVERYTHING to fear. And so have you.....
    Agree with that, but the "Cloud" is a large umbrella if you include all online activity. I pay heat and electric bills online, do online banking, buy things all that credit info is "out there." Even an ISP retains a users online activity for a time, although I have read that they cannot keep all activity backed up permanently due to storage limits. Not going online to do business is very limiting and my post (snail mail) office makes mistakes. (Incorrect delivery to p.o. boxes or home address deliveries)

    Click image for larger version
    Last edited by mdmd; 16 Sep 2012 at 12:41.
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the Cloud really is Cloud Cuckoo land

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