Windows 8 and 8.1 Forums

My logic behind Microsoft's controversial decision: Removal of Start

  1. #101

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Not to try and cause trouble, but the 1st sentence is a quote of mine. The 2nd is a quote of FSeal. If you produced the whole quote that way to point out where the guts menu is with my quote that's ok, but in the future please keep them separate.
    Sorry about that. i certainly didn't do it on purpose. I'll go back and see if I cannot sort it out so as not to confuse anybody else.

    Edit: Fixed, quotes are now separated and linked to the correct poster.

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    I'm glad to read there is at least one good thing you see in 8. I really am. Almost makes me wanna' think you're warming up to it.
    I have a whole laundry list of things that I like, many are just small things here and there As to warming up to it, i've never been adamantly against it. My lack of interest is founded in the fact that Windows 7 works extremely well for me and causes me very few problems. It's been very easy to support at work and in a corporate environment, it really does what people need it to do. As far as Windows 8 is concerned, it's failed thus far to compel me to want to make a change. Even for a low price (~$40), i'm almost certainly not planning to upgrade any of my boxes. For me, Metro doesn't provide much value, and the lack of a start menu is an inconvenience. Having to disable one and add the other back via 3rd party software to me begs the question of "why would I pay for Windows 8" and turn it back into Windows 7...when i am quite happy with Windows 7. This is usually my response to other people who ask me about Windows 8. It doesn't blow my socks off at all, and in fact, I find some of the fundamentals just flat out annoying. It's an odd marriage of a tablet and a PC.

    Now, to be fair, I'm not a tablet fan. I've used most of 'em. iPad, Samsung Galaxy Tab, BlackBerry Playbook, Motorola Xoom, Kindle Fire and the one I happen to own...the Asus Transformer. For simple content absorption, it's ok. It's fine to look up the weather, find a movie playing, check my gmail, and look up how a movie did on IMDB. But for anything that requires input from me, be it Facebook, be it this forum, be it an email or document, I put down the tablet immediately and grab for my PC. It's just far superior for these types of tasks. So, given this knowledge, trying to make my PC look and feel and run more like a smartphone, or just not terribly appealing. Perhaps it will appeal more to the mass market and I will be left behind clinging to the 'old-school' way of doing things....but I'm not terribly worried.

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    You're speaking of the 1/3 - 2/3 view after snapping of apps. Is it fair to show people one flaw, although I realize it's a big one for you? I wonder what they would think after using 8 for as long some of have and gain all the knowledge of tutorials and posts of a forum such as this.
    They could easily overlook this one flaw. But it's when they ask me to show them the features that they cannot live without and sadly it's hard to find any that truly impress them. Like me, many seem to be happy with what Windows 7 does for them. Why pay more money to get a new interface that just seems weird to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    You bet your doompa they will have to meet M$'s quality control. Apps will have to be written with quality in mind.
    I just prefer openness and not being forced into MS's way or nothing. I want options, not restrictions.

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    Lastly, I'm glad to see you've tweaked your profile. At least I now know we have a few things in common -> computers and billiards. I'll bet you're better at computers and I'm better at billiards.
    Well, once I decided I was going to be here for awhile, i decided it necessary to add this info. As far as Billiards go, i'm sad to report that my table is simply collecting dust in my basement. It's sad, but I rarely find any time to play.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  2. #102

    Quote Originally Posted by HippsieGypsie View Post
    It's not just quality control, it's an iron grip on what MS thinks is "correct" in an app. On iOS, and application CANNOT have an exit button. I'm sure MS will institute other restrictions that have nothing to do with apps being "good" or "quality", but just that they rigidly conform to the MS design philosophy. Maybe there might be a reason to include gradients or rounded buttons, but MS will probably have nothing of it.
    Oh no! Not another one that thinks M$ is an evil empire. Posters that think that are a dime a dozen here. You won't get an argument out of me. Talk to the hand.
    I have to say that I agree with this poster and I'm not one that thinks M$ is an evil empire. To me, this whole "store" concept is one of the fundamental issues that I have with Apple. Fortunately, their products are so outrageously priced that they have never truly been a consideration when I am making a purchase so having to deal with iTunes and the App store just hasn't been a problem.

    But I work with people who develop apps for Apple products and the requirements for publishing of these apps is borderline ridiculous, including the fact that apps have to be submitted via Apple products even though written using open standards.

    I don't want to see an ecosystem where MS controls and has to approve of everything that is used within their OS. While the Windows environment is nowhere near as open as the Linux environment that I also love and support, it's been a very happy medium that I have been able to get along with for years.

    I'm not truly concerned about apps having to come via the MS store. I don't think it will really happen.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  3. #103

    Hafnarfjörður IS
    Posts : 4,374
    Linux Centos 7, W8.1, W7, W2K3 Server W10

    Hi there
    I posted on another area that I think the whole "Apps" store concept has actually passed its sell by date. Ms really shouldn't even be thinking this line.

    1) Whoever Buys software DIRECTLY from Ms -- usually we source our own and go for the cheapest source we can grab.

    2) If Ms controlled software distribution -- it probably would kill off the 1000's and 1000's of decent Free stuff - or even moderately priced good third party software since the sheer effort of getting stuff into the store would enable developers to go through huge Olympic size rings and hoops before the stuff was available for users to download.

    3) is Ms's billing system sufficiently robust that literally millions of people could get paid small amounts of money really quickly - the cost of paying a say 1 USD invoice out to a developer for each download plus maintaining all the tax records - especially when the developer is in a different jurisdiction to the billing office to me just not worth the hassle of setting all this up.

    4) It will eventually restrict consumer choice. since only apps sanctioned by Ms would be in the store.

    5) Ms isn't Google -- while it's a HUGE company it doesn't have the commercial infrastructure that Google has. The Finance depts. at Ms are actually very small for a company of that size.

    6) probably the killer -- in the EU ms would certainly run foul of Anti Competition legislation -- The courts and hoards of \lawyers can't wait to get started on this. In the USA there is probably some similar legislation too -- although how Apple got away with it is a mystery -- still Samsung and Apple seem to be locked in perpetual legal conflicts anyway.

    My own experience with "Apps" on a smart phone is that I have only ever paid for ONE -- an upgrade to Winamp so I could play music via folders and FLAC files too just like on my PC - and this only cost me a couple of dollars (US).

    Everything else I've just got FREE --- as Android can run as a VM on Windows (it's only a TINY O/S BTW) you should in theory be able to get all the apps you want and run them on an Android VM on your PC -- who needs the Ms app store.

    Finally can you really see people like Adobe having their stuff controlled by MS. -- I think not somehow -- so this whole "appy thingy" seems a bad business model for Ms to follow -- can't see it ever taking off seriously in Europe.

      My System SpecsSystem Spec

  4. #104

    Posts : 993
    Windows 8 pro Retail

    Nor in the USA either Jimbo, WE Americans like brick & mortar buildings to go shopping in, and doing our purchases (Any type, not just software.) MS's Store can't answer our questions like a store's associate could. WELL try to.
      My System SpecsSystem Spec

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My logic behind Microsoft's controversial decision: Removal of Start

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