Threshold - seems they will HAVE to bring a menu back

Hi there.

Reading through all the slivers of information trickling out about Threshold it definitely seems that the Charms (whoever thought of that stupid name -- like "Monetisation" - another hideous word !) feature is GONE. Now without a charms feature on the current Windows 8.1 you have a major problem with Navigation if you start from the desktop. You need some control to navigate to an application to start it -- and that's usually called a START button on a menu !!!.

There's no way corporates will want to start on the screen showing loads of those tiles so they really have no choice but to re-instate a menu !!.

If you don't use the charms then currently you either have to have everything pinned to the desktop(Shot cuts) or quick launch bar or a custom toolbar. Nobody is going to want to right click the current little Windows symbol to find a search feature before looking for their program / application which is how you have to do it now.

So I'd be pretty well 100% certain that a functioning type of menu will be re-instated -- now that will be interesting to see how many people grumble and say they DON'T want it !!!!!!!!

Cheers
jimbo

I always tought the Charms was a royal PITA on the desktop subsequesnt to the introduction of the Start button... geez it still pops up on side-swiping my touchpad.. soooo annoying - so good riddance, however no reason to get rid of it on touch.. is there?

Well as long as they provide options to enable/disable these functions - that was what we whined about from the start (no pun) - if so, there is no reason for grumbles from those that don't want those options.

How does removing the Charms bar affect navigation? I don't see how it effects needing or wanting a Start Menu over a Start Screen?

Hi there

Easy

Imagine you are on a Desktop with only the Recycle bin on it and nothing pinned to the Quick launch bar. (You've booted Straight to desktop). So How do you get to the START screen from the desktop if there's no Charms bar (There might be a keyboard short cut but can't always remember those).

So no applications showing ANYWHERE on a clean desktop.

Now you want to run say EXCEL. If its not pinned anywhere the normal way is either to use the Charms SEARCH and type in EXCEL and start your application or RIGHT mouse click on the little Windows icon on the bottom left of the screen -- then look for the serach and then enter EXCEL.

With a meny the start plus applications you want are already present.

(Most people don't tend to have ICON free desktops or nothing pinned to the quick launch taskbar though - but you should get what I mean about navigation).

Cheers
jimbo

The way I would do that

Press the Windows key to go to the Start Screen (or click Windows button on bottom left)
Type Excel
Press enter to launch as Excel app is the first on the list

jimbo45 said:

Hi there

Easy

Imagine you are on a Desktop with only the Recycle bin on it and nothing pinned to the Quick launch bar. (You've booted Straight to desktop). So How do you get to the START screen from the desktop if there's no Charms bar (There might be a keyboard short cut but can't always remember those).

So no applications showing ANYWHERE on a clean desktop.

Now you want to run say EXCEL. If its not pinned anywhere the normal way is either to use the Charms SEARCH and type in EXCEL and start your application or RIGHT mouse click on the little Windows icon on the bottom left of the screen -- then look for the serach and then enter EXCEL.

With a meny the start plus applications you want are already present.

(Most people don't tend to have ICON free desktops or nothing pinned to the quick launch taskbar though - but you should get what I mean about navigation).

Cheers
jimbo

Click to expand...

Why would you use the Charms Bar to get to the Start Screen? Anybody that's ever used Windows before is going to click the Start Button on the task bar, or press the Windows Logo key on the keyboard. Once there, they would click the search icon in the upper right corner if that's what they wanted. Those that know Windows 8 would just start typing what they want if they don't already see a tile for it. I don't have any icons on my desktop. I do boot to desktop though. The stuff I use everyday is pined to my taskbar. Other frequently used programs and apps are on my main Start Screen. The rest is in all Apps. The only time I use the charms bar is right after a clean install. Once I have things the way I want them I hardly ever use it.

I always thought the Charms Bar to be an unnecessary, almost useless feature.
As I understand it, the Charms Bar may be eliminated altogether and all windows and apps will have a menu of their own.

Edwin said:

I always thought the Charms Bar to be an unnecessary, almost useless feature.
As I understand it, the Charms Bar may be eliminated altogether and all windows and apps will have a menu of their own.

View attachment 48552

Click to expand...

Right now its the only way to access the settings menu for a Metro App. What's shown on the charms bar changes depending on what screen/window you launch it from. As you've mentioned if its removed the functions it provides will be available in the title bar for the App. The PC Settings tile will do the rest.

I just don't get it. People deliberately install crap like adware scanners, cleaners, tuning software and the like that messes up their system. But they stubbornly refuse to install the one software that really fixes everything that's wrong with Windows 8. Fact is, Windows 8 is by far the best Windows ever on the market. It's the most stable, flexible, reliable, secure and also the fastest Windows there has ever been. The only 2 real disadvantages are the missing start menu and the fact, that apps cannot be run in windowed mode. One is fixed by Classic Shell and a few other alternatives, the other by Modern Mix by Stardock. Instead people keep complaining about things like the obsolete charms bar...

alphanumeric said:

Right now its the only way to access the settings menu for a Metro App. What's shown on the charms bar changes depending on what screen/window you launch it from. As you've mentioned if its removed the functions it provides will be available in the title bar for the App. The PC Settings tile will do the rest.

Click to expand...

You are correct!
I should have stated 'useless for me' as I have eliminated/disabled all possible 'Metro' applications.

altae said:

The only 2 real disadvantages are the missing start menu and the fact, that apps cannot be run in windowed mode. One is fixed by Classic Shell and a few other alternatives, the other by Modern Mix by Stardock. Instead people keep complaining about things like the obsolete charms bar...

Click to expand...

Not disadvantages for all of us

If what you mention is a forced change in Windows 9, I will be staying with 8, I have no need for start menu or windowed store apps

What is in Charms will be placed on the slide down menu bar at the top of Start Screen and open apps including the desktop similar to WP 8.1 as seen below.

Similarity across devices. That's the goal.

This is with IE:



This is a typical app:

paulsalter said:

altae said:

The only 2 real disadvantages are the missing start menu and the fact, that apps cannot be run in windowed mode. One is fixed by Classic Shell and a few other alternatives, the other by Modern Mix by Stardock. Instead people keep complaining about things like the obsolete charms bar...

Click to expand...

Not disadvantages for all of us

If what you mention is a forced change in Windows 9, I will be staying with 8, I have no need for start menu or windowed store apps

Click to expand...

Don't need or want a Start Menu. Metro Apps in a Windowed mode is something I want though.

Just hoping that MS will give options so everyone (mostly) is happy

and not just do a U-turn and make 9 look like 7

Don't need or want a Start Menu. Metro Apps in a Windowed mode is something I want though.

Click to expand...

Which means you should get Modern Mix, it makes apps behave like ordinary software, you can choose if you want to run it in windowed mode or standard app like (full sized). You can even choose that if you start them from the start screen they are run full sized and in windowed mode if started from the desktop.

paulsalter said:

Just hoping that MS will give options so everyone (mostly) is happy

and not just do a U-turn and make 9 look like 7

Click to expand...

W9 will be the most configurable Windows OS to date > Don't like Start Screen? > Here's a Start Menu. Like this feature? > Then keep it or configure it to be off. MS will default what they would like to see, but features can be turned of at will.

Make no mistake that the Modern/Metro aspect of 9 will be more defined, such as sizing of app windows, however, they will be predefined sizes for the size of the screen, just as the different amount of rows of tiles on different size Windows Phone Start Screens. The same will go for tower PC monitors and pads. Don't be surprised that the Start Screen will be fully windowed with a slide down Charms menu at the top. I think they will make the most out of screen real estate no matter the size of the screen.

Although I claimed different in the past, it looks as though the desktop will remain in this edition. At least on the Pro and/or Enterprise editions.

To me, Windows 8.1 is all that already. If I want I can use the start screen, if I don't want to I use the start menu thanks to Classic Shell. I can switch off the Skydrive integration, I can add Aero effects... I don't need MS to deliver all that themselves. What I need from MS is a stable and fast os and that Windows 8.1 definitely is. For the rest there is plenty of (free) software out there. I don't think I will get Windows 9 like I also sticked to Vista. I don't feel the need to buy a new os every 2 years.

altae said:

Don't need or want a Start Menu. Metro Apps in a Windowed mode is something I want though.

Click to expand...

Which means you should get Modern Mix, it makes apps behave like ordinary software, you can choose if you want to run it in windowed mode or standard app like (full sized). You can even choose that if you start them from the start screen they are run full sized and in windowed mode if started from the desktop.

Click to expand...

I'll wait for Microsoft to do it, in house. I'm not big on messing with third party programs like that. It's not something I need right now anyway. I'm quit happy with Windows 8.1 update the way it is. If Microsoft adds that option its a bonus for me.

Hi there

Why should we even have to press the Windows key to get a "Start" screen. Wouldn't the best way be for a user just to type anything on any space on the desktop and then this would act as an "automatic search". So if you typed EXCEL on the desktop area EXCEL would start - or if you didn't have EXCEL then you'd be given say a GOOGLE search. The search should allow wild cards such as E**EL for example.

When you typed on the desktop a little search box could pop up and open automatically so the user would see what they were typing too.

Cheers
jimbo

Lots of interesting info here: Windows 9 Forums