Probably later this decade, Desktop WILL be gone.

Coke Robot

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Now, I support metro design and the Start Screen and I believe that and the Desktop should mesh together. It should be Start Screen AND Desktop, not Start Screen versus Desktop.

That got me thinking and playing around. I found out that you can literally close down the Desktop view just like an app can be. You have to have all your windows minimized, then the cursor turns into a little hand and you can close it down, resulting in the Start Screen.

Now, this seems odd.

It shouldn't really work like that on for the Desktop if the scenario was Start Screen and Desktop. That furthers my beliefs that Microsoft is going on the route of segregating interfaces, and not joining them together in a harmonious way. I still will use it as a Start Screen and Desktop. But this gets me thinking, the Start Screen literally can have almost anything pinned to it, somewhat like the Desktop. You can have people pinned to it, RSS apps, news apps, and the such. There is even the app snap feature, which I think isn't that great since it's split in either one third or two thirds of the screen and little manipulation. This sounds like the Desktop. Microsoft is calling Windows 8 the reimagining of Windows, but the Start Screen can't simply be just the reimagination along with the Desktop still being there? If one were to use the Start Screen by itself and use the features of it, it actually becomes what the Desktop is. The Start Screen is both Taskbar and start menu, the app switcher on the left side becomes the Live Preview thumbnails of the Taskbar. The App Snap is Aero Snap, and the swiping of apps is like using the Win+Tab key in Windows 7.

That there is really what the reimagining of Windows is. The Desktop I bet, will be gone by the end of this decade and will be replaced with Start Screen and morphed into its metro design. Windows 8 is that transitional threshold to that future.

Personally, I'm not actually against that happening. To be successful in the tech industry, companies actually have to kill their successful products in order to have something new and better. Granted, Start Screen isn't greater or better than the Desktop, but that could change in the near to distant future.

I'm slightly excited to see that happen. It's a new generation of Windows, and we're living through the Start of the Future.
 

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You didn't mention the "touch" aspect of the Start screen. That is what it is really what it is all about. But, I do not have a touch screen, and it is unlikely I will, for some time. But, what I would like to know - With a touch screen, can you prearrange shortcuts on the old familiar, desktop, (We are still in Windows 8 here!) so that they can be touch operated? I have browsed and cannot find any positive statement on this.
 

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You always act as if you're pro on everything the Metro is and seeing the Desktop as getting obsolete. I think there would be improvements on the Start screen real soon but I still see the Desktop being alive by the end of this decade as suggested by the fact that its still is the more widely used platform today versus the tablet and the business world, I foresee Windows 7 being the new Windows XP as it will hold on as the most widely used Windows OS for many years to come. I don't see many business adapting to Windows 8 and the Metro in it because it takes an extra learning curve (which many of them would rather skip) and more money which may not be that necessary as Windows 7 can do the trick for them and would not take an extra learning curve (will take only a little from XP migrants). And the the Desktop concept is still the most widely used among Linux OSs. Full screen apps, even if it now has multitasking abilities still cannot be resized so technically, legacy apps would be the more suitable for most people who do multitask. I just don't like M$ insisting this would be the best and forcing this into people. They should still give the users a choice.

But on the tablet platform, I do see the Start Screen and Metro apps having much better potential if only it gets more tweaking. Adding a close and minimize button into them would obviously give them advantage versus apps on Androids and iPads. This idea to me is very obvious and its a pain looking as to why they have not included those yet and just went on the trend on how tablet apps work on iPads and Androids.
 

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I would highly doubt that Metro, in its current implementation, will entirely replace the standard Desktop environment, any time soon. As it stands, Windows 8 is essentially two shells, the 'standard' desktop built on Win32 and Metro build on WinRT. To me, at this time, they're a decidedly odd couple, attempting to share the same space and not doing very well at it.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to commend Metro and WinRT, simple package type installation and removal, sandboxing, isolation etc., but there's also a number of areas where it fails horribly. Notably, applications are single instance and must run full screen, with the exception of two side by side. Metro applications that are suspended can be killed by the OS, without warning, if memory is required - tell me again why I have a multi-core processor and 16GB of RAM. As far as I'm aware, Metro applications must be downloaded from the Windows Store, which not everyone is going to embrace, especially developers, so the diversity of applications will likely reduce. The ergonomics of using a touch screen in a standard desktop environment, is against the widespread adoption, especially in business environments.

It's quite probable that Windows 8 will be adopted quite widely, as there are a number of worthy features to drive the uptake, however, I think it's quite likely that Metro, unless things change, will be more of a niche, something used by those with minimal requirements and for those with small touch-screen devices. It's also likely it will be adopted in Kiosk type environments, places where a only a single application needs to be run at a time.
 

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Of course MS will try to kill off the desktop in favor of a metro-style interface, but not for the reasons mentioned.

For the past three decades or so, computers have been independent, stand-alone devices. This has given a lot of autonomy to the consumer... too much autonomy in the opinion of content providers. Content providers have been fighting a losing battle against the computer and its ability to instantly and cheaply create and distribute an essentially infinite number of perfect copies of visual and audio content... and the business model of content providers has always been built around copying and distributing content (which used to be costly to do, and generated the income which paid for everything else the media company did).

The metro-style interface is designed to eliminate the independence of the computer... to tie it to the cloud, which can be controlled by business. Content providers have been trying to get back to the Good Old Days pre-VCR and pre-cassette ever since those disruptive technologies were introduced. And now they found a way to get the consumer to voluntarily surrender their autonomy, and do so for peanuts (a handful of zippy apps and vapid social media fads).

And MS will go along with it because they are a content provider as well... software counts as content.
 

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Exactly

Of course MS will try to kill off the desktop in favor of a metro-style interface, but not for the reasons mentioned.

For the past three decades or so, computers have been independent, stand-alone devices. This has given a lot of autonomy to the consumer... too much autonomy in the opinion of content providers. Content providers have been fighting a losing battle against the computer and its ability to instantly and cheaply create and distribute an essentially infinite number of perfect copies of visual and audio content... and the business model of content providers has always been built around copying and distributing content (which used to be costly to do, and generated the income which paid for everything else the media company did).

The metro-style interface is designed to eliminate the independence of the computer... to tie it to the cloud, which can be controlled by business. Content providers have been trying to get back to the Good Old Days pre-VCR and pre-cassette ever since those disruptive technologies were introduced.

I agree with your assessment.

This OS is aimed at people who think that "Facebooking" is real work.
It is designed to "soften you up" for "Cloud-based" Windows.

And now they found a way to get the consumer to voluntarily surrender their autonomy, and do so for peanuts (a handful of zippy apps and vapid social media fads).

"Like lambs to the slaughter."
In fact it's even better than that, as the "lambs" are paying for it.

Once you accept the idea that you aren't allowed to do anything on your own PC ("no user serviceable software inside") moving to the "Cloud" isn't as threatening.
 

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You always act as if you're pro on everything the Metro is and seeing the Desktop as getting obsolete. I think there would be improvements on the Start screen real soon but I still see the Desktop being alive by the end of this decade as suggested by the fact that its still is the more widely used platform today versus the tablet and the business world, I foresee Windows 7 being the new Windows XP as it will hold on as the most widely used Windows OS for many years to come. I don't see many business adapting to Windows 8 and the Metro in it because it takes an extra learning curve (which many of them would rather skip) and more money which may not be that necessary as Windows 7 can do the trick for them and would not take an extra learning curve (will take only a little from XP migrants). And the the Desktop concept is still the most widely used among Linux OSs. Full screen apps, even if it now has multitasking abilities still cannot be resized so technically, legacy apps would be the more suitable for most people who do multitask. I just don't like M$ insisting this would be the best and forcing this into people. They should still give the users a choice.

But on the tablet platform, I do see the Start Screen and Metro apps having much better potential if only it gets more tweaking. Adding a close and minimize button into them would obviously give them advantage versus apps on Androids and iPads. This idea to me is very obvious and its a pain looking as to why they have not included those yet and just went on the trend on how tablet apps work on iPads and Androids.
Interesting perspective....
I think if the Start Screen and touch and gesture take off, that will be further evolved and adapted over the Desktop. Honestly, if there was a metro styled version of Windows Explorer, the Desktop could be finished.

Speaking of closing apps on touch screens, Windows 8 doesn't have window chrome on apps. They kept that for the Consumer Preview. With a touch gesture, and a flick, an app is closed. If you need to switch to a different app, there is an app switching bar on the left side to do that. If you need to a go a different app you don't have open, you go to the Start Screen. Windows 8 isn't traditional, it's breaking the traditional ways of doing the same things, but in different ways.
 

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I would highly doubt that Metro, in its current implementation, will entirely replace the standard Desktop environment, any time soon. As it stands, Windows 8 is essentially two shells, the 'standard' desktop built on Win32 and Metro build on WinRT. To me, at this time, they're a decidedly odd couple, attempting to share the same space and not doing very well at it.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to commend Metro and WinRT, simple package type installation and removal, sandboxing, isolation etc., but there's also a number of areas where it fails horribly. Notably, applications are single instance and must run full screen, with the exception of two side by side. Metro applications that are suspended can be killed by the OS, without warning, if memory is required - tell me again why I have a multi-core processor and 16GB of RAM. As far as I'm aware, Metro applications must be downloaded from the Windows Store, which not everyone is going to embrace, especially developers, so the diversity of applications will likely reduce. The ergonomics of using a touch screen in a standard desktop environment, is against the widespread adoption, especially in business environments.

It's quite probable that Windows 8 will be adopted quite widely, as there are a number of worthy features to drive the uptake, however, I think it's quite likely that Metro, unless things change, will be more of a niche, something used by those with minimal requirements and for those with small touch-screen devices. It's also likely it will be adopted in Kiosk type environments, places where a only a single application needs to be run at a time.
I agree with the fact that the Start Screen right now can't take over the Desktop by a long shot. But I'm speaking about the further future of the Start Screen.
By the way, I doubt you metro apps will be killed on your system. The only reason why it would that is on ARM tablets and low RAM tablets. I think the Windows Store will be successful because if you look at apple's app store, it's thriving. androids's app store has all the other apps, with ones of subpar quality. The Windows Phone 7's marketplace is thriving as well. I doubt that would be an issue, especially considering the Windows Store will be on every Windows 8 PC so the end user can find these apps easily all the time.
 

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I would highly doubt that Metro, in its current implementation, will entirely replace the standard Desktop environment, any time soon. As it stands, Windows 8 is essentially two shells, the 'standard' desktop built on Win32 and Metro build on WinRT. To me, at this time, they're a decidedly odd couple, attempting to share the same space and not doing very well at it.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to commend Metro and WinRT, simple package type installation and removal, sandboxing, isolation etc., but there's also a number of areas where it fails horribly. Notably, applications are single instance and must run full screen, with the exception of two side by side. Metro applications that are suspended can be killed by the OS, without warning, if memory is required - tell me again why I have a multi-core processor and 16GB of RAM. As far as I'm aware, Metro applications must be downloaded from the Windows Store, which not everyone is going to embrace, especially developers, so the diversity of applications will likely reduce. The ergonomics of using a touch screen in a standard desktop environment, is against the widespread adoption, especially in business environments.

It's quite probable that Windows 8 will be adopted quite widely, as there are a number of worthy features to drive the uptake, however, I think it's quite likely that Metro, unless things change, will be more of a niche, something used by those with minimal requirements and for those with small touch-screen devices. It's also likely it will be adopted in Kiosk type environments, places where a only a single application needs to be run at a time.
I agree with the fact that the Start Screen right now can't take over the Desktop by a long shot. But I'm speaking about the further future of the Start Screen.

So am I.

By the way, I doubt you metro apps will be killed on your system. The only reason why it would that is on ARM tablets and low RAM tablets.

That's not really the point I was making. As it stands, I can have two Metro applications running simultaneously, any others are suspended. That maybe appropriate on the average hand held device, but which ever way you look at it, it's a ridiculous limitation for a reasonably equipped desktop PC.

I think the Windows Store will be successful because if you look at apple's app store, it's thriving. androids's app store has all the other apps, with ones of subpar quality. The Windows Phone 7's marketplace is thriving as well. I doubt that would be an issue, especially considering the Windows Store will be on every Windows 8 PC so the end user can find these apps easily all the time.

Discounting hand held devices and looking at the comparison between the MAC and Windows 8, MAC users can still download applications from anywhere. If the only option for Metro Applications, is the Windows store, it can't, by it's very nature, be as diverse.

You also have to consider the requirements for developing Metro applications, which are more complicated than similar platforms. Again, this is due to the way Metro is implemented. Personally, I'd hate to have to develop some database driven application to run under Metro, unless I could guarantee it would be the only thing running.

If Microsoft want Metro to succeed, they're seriously going to have to rethink big parts of it. If the don't it will be severely limited. Personally, I think they should have a Windows 8 Metro Edition and leave it as an option in the other editions.
 

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I think if the Start Screen and touch and gesture take off, that will be further evolved and adapted over the Desktop. Honestly, if there was a metro styled version of Windows Explorer, the Desktop could be finished.
The Metro Windows Explorer is a dream to you but how sure are you that will be better than the traditional "Windows" Explorer that's resizable, not fullscreen and much more easily switchable that many of us would prefer? Plus the legacy Windows Explorer has a great context menu that offers a wide variety of fucntions when you right click at stuff. Different people like to do things differently in their own ways so don't assume that most people are gonna think the same as you and embrace this over on what they think is better or easier for them because you can't expect most people to like a Metro styled Windows Explorer after the reason written above.

I would still want the Metro apps to have a close button because its a far more obvious way of closing something down than tapping the top of the app then dragging it below. Which is easier? A single press at the upper right of the touchcreen where a close button is or is it tapping at the top portion and dragging it below the screen? A single press would of course take less effort and more ease and it would still retain the "traditional" way of closing an app. That could be a really important advantage over apps of iPads and Androids. Plus a minimize button that would minimize your app and it would now be sitting on the switching bar at the left, that's really great but yet M$ has failed to realize that or maybe just dumped that idea for the sake of this change or "reimagining" they say. Yes, Windows 8 is a big change but it still has to be on a concievable level where the "tradition" is not killed off for those of us who may have trouble to adjust and adapt. In the end of the day, it still must give us a choice and by then, more people will like it.
 

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On the subject of closing apps... on a standard keyboard mouse combo, a simple Alt-F4 will do that job, MS put it back in for the CP, although a close button would still be nice.

Calico said:
That's not really the point I was making. As it stands, I can have two Metro applications running simultaneously, any others are suspended. That maybe appropriate on the average hand held device, but which ever way you look at it, it's a ridiculous limitation for a reasonably equipped desktop PC.

Absolutely agree here. even your most basic desktop/laptop can probably handle at least 10(?) Metro apps at a time, especially as all the apps we've seen so far are (deliberately) low footprint.

Either way, the desktop isn't going anywhere quickly. There will be many software developers who will stick to what they know, and still write their apps for the desktop environment. All this will mean is we won't be getting them from the Windows store. Meh. I'm not even sure this is necessarily a bad thing. Some of the most usefull apps I have ever downloaded were independently written .Net apps by single developers who neither have the time, nor the inclination to write for 2 different platforms.

hell, we are now what 2.5 years after Windows 7's launch? and jump lists and little scrolly things on the taskbar (can't really describe it... you know the little green progress bar thing like when you're downloading?) are only just starting to frequently appear.

Viva la choice I say. I can take or leave Metro, and I can certainly see its application for things like messengers social networking. Worky stuff maybe not... certainly in my office, I usually need at least 5/6 different apps and spreadsheets all open and able to be referred to at any one time.
 

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I would highly doubt that Metro, in its current implementation, will entirely replace the standard Desktop environment, any time soon. As it stands, Windows 8 is essentially two shells, the 'standard' desktop built on Win32 and Metro build on WinRT. To me, at this time, they're a decidedly odd couple, attempting to share the same space and not doing very well at it.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to commend Metro and WinRT, simple package type installation and removal, sandboxing, isolation etc., but there's also a number of areas where it fails horribly. Notably, applications are single instance and must run full screen, with the exception of two side by side. Metro applications that are suspended can be killed by the OS, without warning, if memory is required - tell me again why I have a multi-core processor and 16GB of RAM. As far as I'm aware, Metro applications must be downloaded from the Windows Store, which not everyone is going to embrace, especially developers, so the diversity of applications will likely reduce. The ergonomics of using a touch screen in a standard desktop environment, is against the widespread adoption, especially in business environments.

It's quite probable that Windows 8 will be adopted quite widely, as there are a number of worthy features to drive the uptake, however, I think it's quite likely that Metro, unless things change, will be more of a niche, something used by those with minimal requirements and for those with small touch-screen devices. It's also likely it will be adopted in Kiosk type environments, places where a only a single application needs to be run at a time.
I agree with the fact that the Start Screen right now can't take over the Desktop by a long shot. But I'm speaking about the further future of the Start Screen.

So am I.

By the way, I doubt you metro apps will be killed on your system. The only reason why it would that is on ARM tablets and low RAM tablets.

That's not really the point I was making. As it stands, I can have two Metro applications running simultaneously, any others are suspended. That maybe appropriate on the average hand held device, but which ever way you look at it, it's a ridiculous limitation for a reasonably equipped desktop PC.

I think the Windows Store will be successful because if you look at apple's app store, it's thriving. androids's app store has all the other apps, with ones of subpar quality. The Windows Phone 7's marketplace is thriving as well. I doubt that would be an issue, especially considering the Windows Store will be on every Windows 8 PC so the end user can find these apps easily all the time.

Discounting hand held devices and looking at the comparison between the MAC and Windows 8, MAC users can still download applications from anywhere. If the only option for Metro Applications, is the Windows store, it can't, by it's very nature, be as diverse.

You also have to consider the requirements for developing Metro applications, which are more complicated than similar platforms. Again, this is due to the way Metro is implemented. Personally, I'd hate to have to develop some database driven application to run under Metro, unless I could guarantee it would be the only thing running.

If Microsoft want Metro to succeed, they're seriously going to have to rethink big parts of it. If the don't it will be severely limited. Personally, I think they should have a Windows 8 Metro Edition and leave it as an option in the other editions.
If you want a metro app, there's a place for that. If you want a Desktop app, there's the internet. The big plus for the Windows Store is that there is a guarantee that there won't be ANY malware in it. That isn't always so for the Desktop. I honestly would think a Desktop marketplace would had been a great idea, especially years ago.

As for running multiple apps, you do have a point there. But then again, you're probably using a mouse and keyboard and metro apps are might be irrelevant to you. I honestly have been using about three or four apps, the rest is in the Desktop.

I think as of now, the Start Screen and metro apps are on fairly solid standing, but yes, they need work. I'd hate to only snap a third of an app next to two thirds of an app on one screen. What if I want two equal halves snapped together, or what if I want to easily readjust the sizes? There are some things about the metro design in Windows 8 I like and dislike. Some of it isn't true metro design, it's more put together than something different and dynamic.
 

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    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
Guaranteed?

The big plus for the Windows Store is that there is a guarantee that there won't be ANY malware in it. That isn't always so for the Desktop. I honestly would think a Desktop marketplace would had been a great idea, especially years ago.

Just like Linux Repositories?
Major Open Source code repository hacked for months, says FSF

That guarantee isn't worth the paper it's written on. ;)

A repository is a "single point of failure".
All the "bad guys" know where to go.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
The big plus for the Windows Store is that there is a guarantee that there won't be ANY malware in it. That isn't always so for the Desktop. I honestly would think a Desktop marketplace would had been a great idea, especially years ago.

Just like Linux Repositories?
Major Open Source code repository hacked for months, says FSF

That guarantee isn't worth the paper it's written on. ;)

A repository is a "single point of failure".
All the "bad guys" know where to go.
Oh well, when it comes to OPEN sourced software, yeah, that's a whole other story. But I still put my bets that Microsoft will be able to vet out a VAST majority of apps to not have crap in them like that, like the Windows Phone 7 for example.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
Oh well, when it comes to OPEN sourced software, yeah, that's a whole other story. But I still put my bets that Microsoft will be able to vet out a VAST majority of apps to not have crap in them like that, like the Windows Phone 7 for example.

It's also happened to Google (Codeplex) and It's not like they're short of resources.

There is malware for iPhones and Android.
Windows Phone 7 benefits from obscurity (i.e. small user base).

Vetting apps takes time and money, which means lower profit.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
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