Win 8.1 running fine - but trying to prepare for recovery

Mediaman09

Member
Member
Messages
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Just got a new ASUS pc for my mom, with Win 8.1 ( it came with 8.0 and I did the free upgrade to 8.1)

I want to do the normal preparation so I can more easily recover from a hard disk failure or system corruption without having a heart attack, but its getting more and more difficult asL
- manufacturer no longer provide Window media ( or the key!)
- Microsoft, bless them, makes this harder and harder to do every year.

In terms of backing up the system files, I am aware of 4 strategies, but I have some issues with each already (!):

1) USB Bootable drive from ISO ( fits an 4-8GB USB)
This is normally straightforward to do when you have the DVD media (ie create an ISO file form the DVD and then create a bootable USB from the ISO). I do this for the machines I build from scratch, and sure is a pleasure . But the folks at ASUS, like many manufacturers , chose not to supply the 50 cent media DVD or a $4 USB stick They don't even supply the key. I wrote them to get a DVD, or bootable USB, and the key, and they are considering my request. They suggested I could take a image copy of thier install partition (buts I cant as I am on 8.1 and am not going back). I scoured many sites which talk about 8.1 ISO files, figuring I could download one, but they all start with the assumption one has 8.0 and a 8.0 key, which I do not have. Hopefully ASUS will come thru and ship me the DVD install media or bootable USB, and the key. I could not find the key on my own even using Belarc. They key is pretty crucial as when I went to the Windows store to upgrade to Window Pro, it asked for the key 8.1 key!! Are there other options here ? ..or am I at the mercy of ASUS? I don't feel I should have to pay $50 for a recovery disc on a brand new computer that is unrecoverable if it fails.


2- Windows - Create Recovery Drive(it prompts for a 32 GB stick) .
Have not tried this yet - need to buy 32 GB stick, but juts curious,, does this yield me a self-contained bootable USB drive like (1)? which reloads Win 8.1 ( even without a key?), .. or does it just yield me an image for which I still need something else to fully recover?

3- Windows System Image
- fair enough, but useless on its own if I cannot get 8.1 reloaded.

4- Third party Image backup software. similar to (3) but a bit better as one boots with a bootable device to reload the image to get back in business- correct?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
On Windows 8 PC's with the OS pre installed by the manufacturer, the product key is embedded in the BIOS. For my ASUS laptop the procedure for creating recovery media is as you mention in option 2. You launch Recovery from Control Panel, select create a recovery drive and check the box for "Copy the recovery partition from the PC to the recovery drive". I think mine was a 16 GB thumb drive.
This is what I went though, its a long thread. http://www.eightforums.com/installation-setup/21897-new-asus-laptop-has-no-recovery-disk-utlity.html In the end I never got to actually test it out as I swapped the factory drive with a smaller SSD. I could not get the recovery drive to reset back to the SSD. In the end I just did a clean install. Official unmodified Microsoft Windows 8 ISO's/DVD's will read the embedded code automatically. Mine gets read and 8 Core is installed without me having to enter a product key. Activation is done online automatically once you have connected to the Internet. Microsoft Windows 8.1 ISO's/DVD's will not use the 8.0 OEM embedded code. You'll get prompted to enter a code and it has to be an 8.1 product code for the install to continue. You can activate with an 8.0 code though.
http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/27129-product-key-find-windows-8-a.html
http://www.eightforums.com/installa...retail-windows-8-1-windows-8-product-key.html
http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/18309-windows-8-windows-8-1-iso-download-create.html?filter << You need a Retail key for this to work.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2
3- Windows System Image - fair enough, but useless on its own if I cannot get 8.1 reloaded.

4- Third party Image backup software. similar to (3) but a bit better as one boots with a bootable device to reload the image to get back in business- correct?

INCORRECT, both use a Bootable device to reimage.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Notebooks x 3

    Desktops x 5

    Towers x 4
On Windows 8 PC's with the OS pre installed by the manufacturer, the product key is embedded in the BIOS. For my ASUS laptop the procedure for creating recovery media is as you mention in option 2. You launch Recovery from Control Panel, select create a recovery drive and check the box for "Copy the recovery partition from the PC to the recovery drive". I think mine was a 16 GB thumb drive.
This is what I went though, its a long thread. http://www.eightforums.com/installation-setup/21897-new-asus-laptop-has-no-recovery-disk-utlity.html In the end I never got to actually test it out as I swapped the factory drive with a smaller SSD. I could not get the recovery drive to reset back to the SSD. In the end I just did a clean install. Official unmodified Microsoft Windows 8 ISO's/DVD's will read the embedded code automatically. Mine gets read and 8 Core is installed without me having to enter a product key. Activation is done online automatically once you have connected to the Internet. Microsoft Windows 8.1 ISO's/DVD's will not use the 8.0 OEM embedded code. You'll get prompted to enter a code and it has to be an 8.1 product code for the install to continue. You can activate with an 8.0 code though.
http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/27129-product-key-find-windows-8-a.html
http://www.eightforums.com/installa...retail-windows-8-1-windows-8-product-key.html
http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/18309-windows-8-windows-8-1-iso-download-create.html?filter << You need a Retail key for this to work.

Thanks much, but as you point out, none of those options/links work for me as I am already on 8.1 activated, with an OEM version, wanting to create a bootable USB for future recovery, that would get me back to 8.1 if my system failed. I dont think it can be done.

If I am understanding you correctly,:
- you successfully used the "Copy the recovery partition from the PC to the recovery drive" option, using a 16GB USB, and it created a bootable USB drive.
- when you boot from that drive, it will rebuild your system, essentially to factory settings to 8.0 (and yes it will read the key from the BIOS.

(When I tried that, ie prompted me on screen for 32GB -perhaps because I am already on 8.1). I will buy a 32GB and see what happens -)

So in theory, what happens next??? If you are back to 8.0 factory, can you use 8.1 image backups( eg from (3) or (4) to restore yourself to where you were before a failure?

Big mistake to buy Windows 8 PC's with the OS pre installed by the manufacturer. There is no way to recover if you ever upgraded and no way to upgrade to Pro ( as it prompts for a key) and even if you find the embedded key it wont accept it. Will never do that again. As long as MS has activation keys, I will buy it retail - I want to hold media in my hands and see the key with my eyes. Everything elese is voodoo magic, may or may not work, and is an utter and complete waste of time.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
if my system failed.

So in theory, what happens next??? If you are back to 8.0 factory, can you use 8.1 image backups( eg from (3) or (4) to restore yourself to where you were before a failure?

NO, use the Windows 8.1 back up image on the new drive.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Notebooks x 3

    Desktops x 5

    Towers x 4
?..I swapped the factory drive with a smaller SSD. I could not get the recovery drive to reset back to the SSD. ..

That's a fairly important point ....and a typically scenario... Ie, the drive fails, replace the drive, attempt to recover. If it doesn't work, (as if by design), what's the point of the recovery drive? Seems that :

- the recovery drive would only work if restored back to the original OEM drive
- changing out the original OEM drive means one needs to start fresh, with a retail install.

Accurate statement?..or am I still not quite understanding.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
- the recovery drive would only work if restored back to the original OEM drive
- changing out the original OEM drive means one needs to start fresh, with a retail install.

Accurate statement?..or am I still not quite understanding.

YES & NO.

Using the Windows Recovery USB Drive, will only Reset on the original OEM drive with all original partitions inplace.



Using the OEM manufacturer's Recovery USB Drive, will Reset to a unformatted drive.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Notebooks x 3

    Desktops x 5

    Towers x 4

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Notebooks x 3

    Desktops x 5

    Towers x 4
- the recovery drive would only work if restored back to the original OEM drive
- changing out the original OEM drive means one needs to start fresh, with a retail install.

Accurate statement?..or am I still not quite understanding.

YES & NO.

Using the Windows Recovery USB Drive, will only Reset on the original OEM drive with all original partitions inplace.



Using the OEM manufacturer's Recovery USB Drive, will Reset to a unformatted drive.


But alphanumeric , like me has an ASUS if recall, so the latter does not exist, and the former only works on the original OEM drive...which is useless if it fails. Only solution is to buy retail.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
Do #4 with this option. That is the easiest and most reliable. And download the recovery .iso from my Skydrive. Makes it easy.

Many many thanks. Tried Macrium briefly before...time to revisit it.

Re the ISO file, is that a Win 7 or Win 8 ISO??

I would use the Windows 8/8.1 version, Which is signed by Microsoft.
Macrium Reflect Free - Free download and software reviews - CNET Download.com


Right , the retail version,; yes that would work. but that is at the heart of the issue. As noted earlier, in that I would need need to buy a retail version of Windows, over and above already paying for Windows as part of my original OEM purchase, if I truly want a recovery ISO I can use to recover 8.1 to any drive.
 
Last edited:

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
If I am understanding you correctly,:
- you successfully used the "Copy the recovery partition from the PC to the recovery drive" option, using a 16GB USB, and it created a bootable USB drive.
- when you boot from that drive, it will rebuild your system, essentially to factory settings to 8.0 (and yes it will read the key from the BIOS.

(When I tried that, ie prompted me on screen for 32GB -perhaps because I am already on 8.1). I will buy a 32GB and see what happens -)

So in theory, what happens next??? If you are back to 8.0 factory, can you use 8.1 image backups( eg from (3) or (4) to restore yourself to where you were before a failure?

Big mistake to buy Windows 8 PC's with the OS pre installed by the manufacturer. There is no way to recover if you ever upgraded and no way to upgrade to Pro ( as it prompts for a key) and even if you find the embedded key it wont accept it. Will never do that again. As long as MS has activation keys, I will buy it retail - I want to hold media in my hands and see the key with my eyes. Everything elese is voodoo magic, may or may not work, and is an utter and complete waste of time.

Yes, the drive I made is supposed to let you boot from it and do a Reset or Refresh. The Reset would put it back to the factory Windows 8.0 install. Copying the factory recovery partition is what lets you do that and the image in there is the original Windows 8 install with all the factory bloatware. The size of the drive required depends on how big your factory Recovery partition is. Yours could be just over 16 GB thus you need the next available size up, 32 GB. I do believe my drive was almost full when it was done. For you to skip 8.0 and install 8.1 you'll need 8.1 install media and your embedded key. My factory OEM install is long gone from my laptop. These days when an OS reload is needed I just do a clean install. I have TechNet so I just enter an 8.1 key and skip the workarounds. I could do it the other way and use my OEM key but why bother. I would just end up upgrading to Pro and the adding Media Center anyway. If that last link I posted for the download would except OEM keys you would be good to go. I don't know why Microsoft blocked it. They must have their reasons, I just don't know what they are. Wish I could be of more help.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2
?..I swapped the factory drive with a smaller SSD. I could not get the recovery drive to reset back to the SSD. ..

That's a fairly important point ....and a typically scenario... Ie, the drive fails, replace the drive, attempt to recover. If it doesn't work, (as if by design), what's the point of the recovery drive? Seems that :

- the recovery drive would only work if restored back to the original OEM drive
- changing out the original OEM drive means one needs to start fresh, with a retail install.

Accurate statement?..or am I still not quite understanding.

You can use the recovery drive when the PC won't boot to windows or the factory Fn key doesn't work. The drive is corrupted but not physically broken. It may even work for a replacement drive if its the same size, I've never tried it. My original drive was 750 GB, my SSD was only 128 GB. I got errors like "missing partition etc" Its been a while since I did it. I tried a lot of things like a blank drive and a prepartitioned drive but just gave up and did a clean install. B
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2
Many many thanks. Tried Macrium briefly before...time to revisit it.

Re the ISO file, is that a Win 7 or Win 8 ISO??

I would use the Windows 8/8.1 version, Which is signed by Microsoft.
Macrium Reflect Free - Free download and software reviews - CNET Download.com


Right , the retail version,; yes that would work. but that is at the heart of the issue. As noted earlier, in that I would need need to buy a retail version of Windows, over and above already paying for Windows as part of my original OEM purchase, if I truly want a recovery ISO I can use to recover 8.1 to any drive.

If you buy from Microsoft, yes you'll have to buy a second key along with the install media, they won't sell you just the disk. If you have another PC you could use the new code on that and your embedded key on your laptop to install 8.1 on both PC's legally. They would each be using their own key.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2
- the recovery drive would only work if restored back to the original OEM drive
- changing out the original OEM drive means one needs to start fresh, with a retail install.

Accurate statement?..or am I still not quite understanding.

YES & NO.

Using the Windows Recovery USB Drive, will only Reset on the original OEM drive with all original partitions inplace.



Using the OEM manufacturer's Recovery USB Drive, will Reset to a unformatted drive.


But alphanumeric , like me has an ASUS if recall, so the latter does not exist, and the former only works on the original OEM drive...which is useless if it fails. Only solution is to buy retail.

You can order the Microsoft official OEM Recovery disks from the ASUS OEM manufacturer's website.
Essentio Recovery Software
Notebook Recovery Software

https://serviceshop.asus.com/
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Notebooks x 3

    Desktops x 5

    Towers x 4
- the recovery drive would only work if restored back to the original OEM drive
- changing out the original OEM drive means one needs to start fresh, with a retail install.

Accurate statement?..or am I still not quite understanding.

YES & NO.

Using the Windows Recovery USB Drive, will only Reset on the original OEM drive with all original partitions inplace.



Using the OEM manufacturer's Recovery USB Drive, will Reset to a unformatted drive.


But alphanumeric , like me has an ASUS if recall, so the latter does not exist, and the former only works on the original OEM drive...which is useless if it fails. Only solution is to buy retail.

I think what Theog said is true. I got a some "a required partition is missing" error messages when trying to restore to the SSD. Recovery Media from the OEM can likely recreate the partition structure and do more than the Windows created Recovery drive. I haven't confirmed it one way or the other though.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Education 64 Bit
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition Deneb 3.7GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS M4N68T-M V2 µATX Motherboard
    Memory
    8GB 4GBx2 Kingston PC10600 DDR3 1333 Memory
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce GT640 2 Gig DDR3 PCIe
    Sound Card
    VIA VT1708s High Definition Audio 8-channel Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    22" LG E2242 1080p and 2 19" I-INC AG191D
    Screen Resolution
    1280x1024 - 1920x1080 - 1280x1024
    Hard Drives
    Crucial MX100 256 GB SSD and 500 GB WD Blue SATA
    PSU
    Thermaltake TR 620
    Case
    Power Up Black ATX Mid-Tower Case
    Cooling
    Stock heatsink fan
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wireless K350 Wave
    Mouse
    Logitech M570 Trackball and T650 TouchPad
    Internet Speed
    80 Mbps Down 30 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    HP DVD1040e Lightscribe - External USB2
For example SONY DVD/USB disk.

SONY Recovery 001 theog.PNG

SONY Recovery 002 theog.PNG
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    ME, XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,Win8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Other Info
    Notebooks x 3

    Desktops x 5

    Towers x 4
Back in the day, when life was simple, OEM's like Dell included the install media. More recently (even up to 5 years ago if I recall) they did not. I complained, persistently, with logical arguments until they provided it. For the last one, I had to initiate the 30 day return process. When they asked why, they provide me the media. What really boiled my blood what that this was not a one-of USB stick they gave me, or a techhie-burned DVD...it was a Dell branded DVD for Windows install disk in a sealed envelop with part number etc. And there was no charge. Why the heck not just include that in the box that I am paying over $1000 for?? Why make me beg for it? Was it to save the 50 cents? I will never understand that.

With the ASUS, I am making the same case ; we'll see how far I get.

Yes they can be ordered for the ASUS site... but they want $50 !!. I would rather spend double, and get the true retail version and just avoid all this nonsense and insanity with OEM recovery partitions, begging them for media etc.

I will be ok for while, making my Macrium (and windows) image backups, and OEM recovery drives etc etc. But as soon as I get to the point where something fails, and I cannot boot or restore, I will buy the retail version of the day. and do a fresh install.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8
Ask how many people can find their original installation disc from 4 years ago. The recovery partition is always with you on the system and it really not a big deal to burn the DVD. Problem is that most people don't do that.

I never needed either the disc or the recovery partition. I make plenty of images and going back to those is a lot easier than a reinstall. And I always keep the early images - the ones from after the initial installation and updates. Going back to that is quasi like a reinstall and a lot less work. Takes 20 minutes to recover with an image.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Vista and Win7
    System Manufacturer/Model
    2xHP, 2xGateway, 1xDell, 1xSony
    Hard Drives
    5 SSDs and 12 HDs
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