If Microsoft is to metrofy Windows Explorer, they need to do it right.

Coke Robot

Coke Robot

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There's this real hidden hack of sorts that enabled a metro version of the Aero interface and I just transitioned to it literally right now, and my thoughts are iffy. I think it's not the best way to make something metro designed. The Taskbar looks more like an aero version of the Classic grey Taskbar in the Classic theme that is in Windows 7. But I do kind of like the window control buttons, they turned more into icons, which I wanted to see. But it still looks WAY retro, I'd imagine a smoother icon for each window control.

Open icons in the Taskbar feel metroish and nice. It's a definite change to metro. I don't know, it doesn't feel like it's new and modern, it feels slightly retro. But thankfully, it's a Developer Preview, we'll see what the Desktop will look like later....

Here is what I speaketh off. 1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg
 

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I hate the ribbon thing on Windows Explorer.

Before they can metrofy Windows Explorer, they better work out on adding window control buttons like minimize, close and maximize into Metro apps first. But I don't quite feel that is likely even on the Beta.
 

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Thinking "Metro=Squares" is wrong.
It is about basing your UI interface on actual content instead of graphics.
It is similar to Swiss Style, thus it is Typography based design language. It is not design based on squares..

Anyway, what you are seeing is not metro, it is called AeroLite.
 

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Vertex said:
I hate the ribbon thing on Windows Explorer.

Before they can metrofy Windows Explorer, they better work out on adding window control buttons like minimize, close and maximize into Metro apps first. But I don't quite feel that is likely even on the Beta.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that you have still difficulty grasping what Windows 8 is. It is essentially a mobile OS that virtualizes Win7. Thus, Win7 is simply a task under this OS. How do mobile OSes close apps? By pressing the "back" or "home" arrow. In fact, in most mobile OSes (iOS, Android), the OS decides how many resources to award to background apps, to suspend them or to close them. This is exactly what is happening in Win8. On tablets and smartphones, Win8 systems will close apps by pressing the "back" button. This is why the "close", "minimize", "full screen" buttons do not matter any more. They have never been part of any mobile OS and they would not be part of this mobile OS. Win8 with "Metro" needs to behave like a mobile OS the users expect it to be.

Again, if you buy to the whole premise that you would be running a mobile OS which would run Win7 as an application, then you would be at home with Win8.
 

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Even those apps just don't terminate immediately. Even whilst I was using Piano, I pressed the logo key to go back to the Start Screen, but I can still hear the sound of that. They should work on that at least. Make those applications terminate as they are closed. If there's one thing that very immediately made me dislike something about the iPhone or the iPad, there was no way to close an app unless you press the button that takes you back to the menu screen. If Microsoft would put some close and mimimize buttons into these Metro apps, don't you think that would be at least a small but important advantage over the apps of other tablets or smartphones?

I disagree with you that the Desktop part of Windows 8 is just an application. There are features in it that are not present on Windows 7, you get things like Hyper-V and Storage Pools but there are features like System Reset and System Refresh that are hard coded, they won't work on the Control Panel unless Metro is enabled. I'm just gonna say that you don't downsize the new features that are considerably good (maybe not siginificantly good for you) for users. I use WDP everyday but I had Metro and the ribbon on Windows Explorer disabled using Brink's tutorial. Its so far smoother than Windows 7 as far as I can remember but there are still a few bugs.
 

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Brink said:
Vertex said:
I hate the ribbon thing on Windows Explorer.

Before they can metrofy Windows Explorer, they better work out on adding window control buttons like minimize, close and maximize into Metro apps first. But I don't quite feel that is likely even on the Beta.
Click to expand...

Hello Vertex,

If you like, the ribbon can easily be toggled on or off in Windows Explorer though. :)

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/3034-windows-explorer-minimize-ribbon-windows-8-a.html
Click to expand...
Thanks, but I have Metro the the ribbon on Windows Explorer disabled using your other tutotial. The one that you can disable/enable Metro from the Desktop context menu.
 

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Vertex said:
Even those apps just don't terminate immediately. Even whilst I was using Piano, I pressed the logo key to go back to the Start Screen, but I can still hear the sound of that. They should work on that at least. Make those applications terminate as they are closed. If there's one thing that very immediately made me dislike something about the iPhone or the iPad, there was no way to close an app unless you press the button that takes you back to the menu screen. If Microsoft would put some close and mimimize buttons into these Metro apps, don't you think that would be at least a small but important advantage over the apps of other tablets or smartphones?
Click to expand...

No, I do not. Not if the whole system is designed for touch on small devices like tablets and smartphones. Where would one put these buttons? It is not as if you have the real estate that you have in the desktop. If you want to run the same mobile OS (what Win8 really is) from smartphones to large desktops, this system would need to be configured for the lowest common denominator, which is the smartphone screen. And this is the main problem with Win8.


Vertex said:
I disagree with you that the Desktop part of Windows 8 is just an application. There are features in it that are not present on Windows 7, you get things like Hyper-V and Storage Pools but there are features like System Reset and System Refresh that are hard coded, they won't work on the Control Panel unless Metro is enabled. I'm just gonna say that you don't downsize the new features that are considerably good (maybe not siginificantly good for you) for users. I use WDP everyday but I had Metro and the ribbon on Windows Explorer disabled using Brink's tutorial. Its so far smoother than Windows 7 as far as I can remember but there are still a few bugs.
Click to expand...

That the desktop has certain enhancements, it does not prove it is not simply just a task under Win8. It is just that. This is basically what Microsoft is saying. You have Win8 which is fully Metro and it runs the old desktop (plus a few enhancements) as a task under it. This is what it is, by Microsoft's own communications. And this is why System Reset and System Refresh are Metro only. They are utilities of Win8 and not of the virtualized Win7 that runs as a task under it. And what is this big deal about System Refresh and System Reset? System Reset is available on all mobile OSes. It is available for iOS and it is available on Android. In fact, System Reset was available for Windows Mobile 6.0-6.5!!! Big deal. Microsoft is only catching up to other mobile OSes. It is quite instructuive that System Reset/Refresh cannot do anything about the desktop because the desktop is not part of the OS. It is a virtualized version of Win7+enhancements that runs as a task.

The whole think is less than impressive. It is essentially coding Win8 to behave like Android or iOS. The only concession is that Win8 would be able to virtualize Win7 and allow you to run "old" desktop apps within that virtualized OS. Of course, the Win7 virtualization will be missing from ARM-based computers (because, I think, they have some difficulty making it work there).

Just face the truth. Windows has come to an end. It is all over. With Win8, you have Microsoft's copy of iOS with a different UI that can virtualize the "old" Windows. If you like it, go and buy it. If not, then, too bad!!
 

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Jav said:
Thinking "Metro=Squares" is wrong.
It is about basing your UI interface on actual content instead of graphics.
It is similar to Swiss Style, thus it is Typography based design language. It is not design based on squares..

Anyway, what you are seeing is not metro, it is called AeroLite.
Click to expand...
That I agree with. The Zune Software is the most metro program ever, and it uses actual content to make it what it is. I know it's AeroLite, but I wanted to see what that little weird hack does. :p
I highly doubt it'll even be in the client OS since that's the design of Windows 8 Server there.
 

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ADRz said:
Vertex said:
Even those apps just don't terminate immediately. Even whilst I was using Piano, I pressed the logo key to go back to the Start Screen, but I can still hear the sound of that. They should work on that at least. Make those applications terminate as they are closed. If there's one thing that very immediately made me dislike something about the iPhone or the iPad, there was no way to close an app unless you press the button that takes you back to the menu screen. If Microsoft would put some close and mimimize buttons into these Metro apps, don't you think that would be at least a small but important advantage over the apps of other tablets or smartphones?
Click to expand...

No, I do not. Not if the whole system is designed for touch on small devices like tablets and smartphones. Where would one put these buttons? It is not as if you have the real estate that you have in the desktop. If you want to run the same mobile OS (what Win8 really is) from smartphones to large desktops, this system would need to be configured for the lowest common denominator, which is the smartphone screen. And this is the main problem with Win8.


Vertex said:
I disagree with you that the Desktop part of Windows 8 is just an application. There are features in it that are not present on Windows 7, you get things like Hyper-V and Storage Pools but there are features like System Reset and System Refresh that are hard coded, they won't work on the Control Panel unless Metro is enabled. I'm just gonna say that you don't downsize the new features that are considerably good (maybe not siginificantly good for you) for users. I use WDP everyday but I had Metro and the ribbon on Windows Explorer disabled using Brink's tutorial. Its so far smoother than Windows 7 as far as I can remember but there are still a few bugs.
Click to expand...

That the desktop has certain enhancements, it does not prove it is not simply just a task under Win8. It is just that. This is basically what Microsoft is saying. You have Win8 which is fully Metro and it runs the old desktop (plus a few enhancements) as a task under it. This is what it is, by Microsoft's own communications. And this is why System Reset and System Refresh are Metro only. They are utilities of Win8 and not of the virtualized Win7 that runs as a task under it. And what is this big deal about System Refresh and System Reset? System Reset is available on all mobile OSes. It is available for iOS and it is available on Android. In fact, System Reset was available for Windows Mobile 6.0-6.5!!! Big deal. Microsoft is only catching up to other mobile OSes. It is quite instructuive that System Reset/Refresh cannot do anything about the desktop because the desktop is not part of the OS. It is a virtualized version of Win7+enhancements that runs as a task.

The whole think is less than impressive. It is essentially coding Win8 to behave like Android or iOS. The only concession is that Win8 would be able to virtualize Win7 and allow you to run "old" desktop apps within that virtualized OS. Of course, the Win7 virtualization will be missing from ARM-based computers (because, I think, they have some difficulty making it work there).

Just face the truth. Windows has come to an end. It is all over. With Win8, you have Microsoft's copy of iOS with a different UI that can virtualize the "old" Windows. If you like it, go and buy it. If not, then, too bad!!
Click to expand...

Wow....
 

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You have been rather hasty on your judgments ADRz. About System Reset and System Refresh, well its the first time you can do that on a Microsoft Desktop computer and they are not bad. You dislike the Metro but don't let that be a reason why you seem to see Windows 8 as total failure while you seem to disregarding the other features not in the Metro, considering them minor. There was another user on this forum who posted a video of his use of Windows 8 on a tablet but even so, he doesnt use Metro apps. He said he could even use Photoshop on that tablet. You seem to be criticizing it in every way.

If you will be given a chance to change something or add something on Windows 8 right now to your wishes, what will it be? I know this is unlikely but lets just make this scenario up.
 

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Vertex said:
You have been rather hasty on your judgments ADRz. About System Reset and System Refresh, well its the first time you can do that on a Microsoft Desktop computer and they are not bad.
Click to expand...

I do not think that you are listening to me. As far as the desktop goes, the System Reset and System Refresh are the same utilities that were in Win7 with a different name. They do nothing that interests me. In Win8, they just reset the Metro part, not the desktop. Sure, if you run them you will have a blank desktop but then, you could have done this easily in Win7. So, why are you so excited about? Are there any Metro apps that you depend on? So, you are totally wrong about being able to do this "for the first time". It is really old technology, being in Win CE for sometime.

Vertex said:
You dislike the Metro but don't let that be a reason why you seem to see Windows 8 as total failure while you seem to disregarding the other features not in the Metro, considering them minor. There was another user on this forum who posted a video of his use of Windows 8 on a tablet but even so, he doesnt use Metro apps. He said he could even use Photoshop on that tablet. You seem to be criticizing it in every way.
Click to expand...

I already run Photoshop in a Win7 tablet!!! In fact, that person does not know that he cannot run Photoshop effectively in that tablet. To run Photoshop in a tablet you need to have a resistive screen, not a capacitive one. The capacitive screens lack precision and they do not register pressure. It is one thing to want to run Photoshop and totally another to actually run it!!!

Vertex said:
If you will be given a chance to change something or add something on Windows 8 right now to your wishes, what will it be? I know this is unlikely but lets just make this scenario up.
Click to expand...

Well, I would totally junk the mobile OS. I would run what is now a virtualized task (the Win7 desktop) natively as the core of the OS. The Metro mobile OS should be reserved for tablets. Nobody would want to run desktop apps in that environment anyway. Too small a screen to do anything interesting, anyway.

What you get in Win8 is a mobile OS that virtualizes the Win7 desktop. Thus, you can move the whole OS to ARM minus the virtual tasks and have the same OS. I think that this is a very wrong approach (and it is not only me). The OSX approach is much better, running elements of iOS as tasks under the desktop. Thus, it retains its core expertise and provides some benefits of a mobile OS (the apps) to the user. A much, much better approach. If Apple had designed Lion to be iOS which was running OSX as a virtual task, then you would have had the equivalent of Win8. But Apple is too clever to do something as stupid as MS is doing with Win8.

So, what is the way forward, you may ask. If I am going to run Win7 apps in a virtual environment, then I do not need Win8. I can run Win7 as a virtual task under OSX or under Linux. This is a far better proposition for power users. You have the same experience as with Win8 (the virtual task), but the main OS is an industrial strength desktop OS and its applications are not stupid, full-screen apps.

So, if you are going to run the Win7 desktop as a virtual task, why do it under a brain-dead, full screen mobile OS???? You tell me. Wouldn't Linux be better? Do you really like these puny little Metro apps? Give me a good reason for your choice.
 

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Well I do not really like the current design of the Metro Apps and their "flatness" and I keep repeating on saying that I had Metro disabled and for the most part, I don't use the Metro apps. As far as I'm concerened, the System Reset its not exactly that way it was on Windows 7. There are these advanced recovery methods on Windows 7, but its sort of a reinstall that still requires your installation media and your files from the previous installation will be on the Windows.old folder, with Windows 8, they have tweaked how that works and if they do it really right in the future, it would not even need you to insert your installation media to refresh or reset the computer. I feel that you have not carefully looked into this process. Have you even tried using the System Reset and System Refresh options on the Windows 8 Control Panel, the Control Panel not in the Metro? It even creates a folder named $SysReset on the C: main drive of WDP. I think it was improved on Windows 8 compared to Windows 7. Check this out:

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/2302-reset-windows-8-a.html

To use Photoshop, of course it is possible to attach a real keyboard and mouse to your tablet. I dislike the Metro part but I don't want to fail to see what's the new things I can get outside the Metro.

Like you, I use Windows because I want to run Windows applications not because its Windows and because I wanted the latest but there is a taste for something new. I used Linux too but I don't want to install Windows inside a virtual machine inside Linux because my system does not have very good specs to support a guest OS.

You do not directly answer my question about what you would do to Windows 8 if you will be given a (fictional) chance to alter its current design.
 

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warning   Warning
Let's keep this discussion friendly shall we.

 

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ADRz said:
Vertex said:
You have been rather hasty on your judgments ADRz. About System Reset and System Refresh, well its the first time you can do that on a Microsoft Desktop computer and they are not bad.
Click to expand...

I do not think that you are listening to me. As far as the desktop goes, the System Reset and System Refresh are the same utilities that were in Win7 with a different name. They do nothing that interests me. In Win8, they just reset the Metro part, not the desktop. Sure, if you run them you will have a blank desktop but then, you could have done this easily in Win7. So, why are you so excited about? Are there any Metro apps that you depend on? So, you are totally wrong about being able to do this "for the first time". It is really old technology, being in Win CE for sometime.

Vertex said:
You dislike the Metro but don't let that be a reason why you seem to see Windows 8 as total failure while you seem to disregarding the other features not in the Metro, considering them minor. There was another user on this forum who posted a video of his use of Windows 8 on a tablet but even so, he doesnt use Metro apps. He said he could even use Photoshop on that tablet. You seem to be criticizing it in every way.
Click to expand...

I already run Photoshop in a Win7 tablet!!! In fact, that person does not know that he cannot run Photoshop effectively in that tablet. To run Photoshop in a tablet you need to have a resistive screen, not a capacitive one. The capacitive screens lack precision and they do not register pressure. It is one thing to want to run Photoshop and totally another to actually run it!!!

Vertex said:
If you will be given a chance to change something or add something on Windows 8 right now to your wishes, what will it be? I know this is unlikely but lets just make this scenario up.
Click to expand...

Well, I would totally junk the mobile OS. I would run what is now a virtualized task (the Win7 desktop) natively as the core of the OS. The Metro mobile OS should be reserved for tablets. Nobody would want to run desktop apps in that environment anyway. Too small a screen to do anything interesting, anyway.

What you get in Win8 is a mobile OS that virtualizes the Win7 desktop. Thus, you can move the whole OS to ARM minus the virtual tasks and have the same OS. I think that this is a very wrong approach (and it is not only me). The OSX approach is much better, running elements of iOS as tasks under the desktop. Thus, it retains its core expertise and provides some benefits of a mobile OS (the apps) to the user. A much, much better approach. If Apple had designed Lion to be iOS which was running OSX as a virtual task, then you would have had the equivalent of Win8. But Apple is too clever to do something as stupid as MS is doing with Win8.

So, what is the way forward, you may ask. If I am going to run Win7 apps in a virtual environment, then I do not need Win8. I can run Win7 as a virtual task under OSX or under Linux. This is a far better proposition for power users. You have the same experience as with Win8 (the virtual task), but the main OS is an industrial strength desktop OS and its applications are not stupid, full-screen apps.

So, if you are going to run the Win7 desktop as a virtual task, why do it under a brain-dead, full screen mobile OS???? You tell me. Wouldn't Linux be better? Do you really like these puny little Metro apps? Give me a good reason for your choice.
Click to expand...
Windows 7 has System Repair options in the Recovery Environment that uses the install media to repair it. There is startup repair to make Windows boot if it isn't. Then there is flatout reinstalling Windows clean, then moving user data around.

Refresh keeps the metro elements, and chucks out changes to the Desktop but keeps user data and system settings. The point is to keep the metro apps. I don't know if you realize, people have a tendency to buy 4 dollar apps and not 40 dollar desktop programs. If a user had 40 dollars worth of apps installed and they reset Windows and lost all those apps, it'd be a pain. The point of refresh to refresh the components of Windows that degrade, most likely the registry.

Doing a reinstall of Windows isn't a light task for the vast majority of Windows users, that's why best buy and the geek squad are still around. I get that this has been around for sometime, but on mobile platforms. This feature coming to Windows will be a GODsend for people like me who maintenance several Windows installations.

Wait, you have a Windows 7 tablet?!

How is Windows 7 being virtualized in Windows 8?
 

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Anyways, getting back on topic, I think for Windows Explorer, the Details pane needs to be put back on the bottom the screen. It being on the side, you don't get a lot of usable detail in a glance without pulling it all the way out. I don't know, maybe make it a flyout pane like the Settings bar?

Also, I feel that the File menu in the Ribbon can easily be consolidated into the Home tab. There are probably three relevant items in the menu, Help, command prompt, and open a new window. By doing that, it could definitely clear up some space for a larger back button and smaller forward button. And ditch the up button! Bleh! :sick: Really? We have breadcrumb navigation, I don't understand why Microsoft added that back, maybe for the xp users? I don't know.

Hmm, I think I might draw a mockup of what I'm talking about to illustrate this better...
 

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    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
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    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
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    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
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    Microsoft Touch Mouse
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    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
I also think that better management of Windows installations are a Godsend. But it would be much better if this whole System Reset and System Refresh thing will not require you to insert the installation media. System Reset and System Refresh are necessary when a computer has significant loss of performance due to degradation in the Registry. If I was one of the top guys there in Microsoft's developers, I would try to make a way to eliminate any obsolete elements there in the Registry so that Registry cleaners would not be necessary anymore as many people suffer of the consequences using Registry cleaners that they may need to reinstall.

Yep Coke, I still want the larger details pane on the bottom of Windows Explorer. I think they decided to shrink it because they need to make up for the loss of space when they added the ribbon on top of Windows Explorer. But I like the "Up To" button. Its a nice little tool.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows Developer Preview, Linux Mint 9
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Built
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