8.1 upgrade with not so old hardware...is a no go

Messages
118
Location
USA

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom build
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II X 4 965 BE
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-MA790X-DS4
    Memory
    G-Skill 8 GB PC 8500
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD XFX HD Radeon 6790D
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2l Samsung SyncMaster S20B300
    Screen Resolution
    1600 X 900
    Hard Drives
    Seagate Barracuda 320 GB w/OS
    Seagate Barracuda 1 TB data storage
    PSU
    Ultra X4 750 watt fully modular
    Case
    Thermaltake OverSeer RX 1 fulltower
    Cooling
    Cooler Master Hyper212 120mm
    Keyboard
    Logitech G510
    Mouse
    Razor DeathAdder 3.5
Yup, I ran into this with 8.1 Preview. I had 8.0 X64 and could not update to 81. Preview X64. Had to do a clean install of 8.1 Preview X86.

I won't downgrade my computer to a 32 bit OS because Microsoft removed support that was previously in the kernel. Looks like I'm stuck on 8.0 until I can afford a new computer. This is one change I would really like to see Microsoft release an update for so 8.1 will run on all the same processors 8.0 runs on.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo IdeaCenter K450
    CPU
    Intel Quad Core i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Integrated HD Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP h2207
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050@59Hz
    Hard Drives
    250GB Samsung EVO SATA-3 SSD;
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001 SATA-2;
    1.5TB Seagate ST3150041AS SATA
    PSU
    500W
    Keyboard
    Wired USB
    Mouse
    Wired USB
    Internet Speed
    3GB Up, 30GB Down
    Browser
    SeaMonkey
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender; MBAM Pro
    Other Info
    UEFI/GPT
    PLDS DVD-RW DH16AERSH
Thanks for posting, Bass. A good read indeed.

First off, I think the author is misleading calling it a "point release OS update—or rather, a service pack". It is in fact a new edition in which there are major kernel changes. I believe MS stated this from the get go. I will, however, give the author credit on criticizing MS for the short period of support for 8. That to me is just plain unfair and MS should compensate those few customers stuck with it. Perhaps a major discount on a new machine would suffice.

It is unfortunate and I can understand that some are disappointed that 8.1 cannot run on all machines, but is that totally MS's fault being that it's a new edition? I was stretching Windows 98SE on my old Gateway 2000 which ran fine, but I sure the heck knew it wouldn't handle Vista. Was MS obliged to write a kernel update just to accommodate me? No. It was time to upgrade my hardware if I wanted a more modern OS.

Is it MS's fault that the Intel DP35DP motherboard hasn't had a firmware update since 2009? I don't think so. Why doesn't the author criticize Intel for lack of service? Hopefully they will release new firmware. Does anyone know if Intel is aware of this problem? Another thing the author doesn't mention.

And ?why? would the author not test the 32 bit system before he wrote the article is beyond me. :think:

Personally I was concerned whether or not 8 would run on this older Acer, but thank my lucky stars it turned this machine around like it was brand new. Then concerned again when approaching 8.1. Again, thank my lucky stars. I'm amazed on how fast these editions run verses 7. They use about 5% more RAM, but I don't think that's a significant change.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer T690
    CPU
    Intel Pentium D Dual Core
    Motherboard
    Acer/Intel E946GZ
    Memory
    2GB (max upgrade)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3000 - PCI Express x16
    Sound Card
    Integrated RealTek ALC888 high-definition audio with 7.1 channel audio support
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer AL1917W A LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1440 X 900
    Hard Drives
    350 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10
    Thumb drives
    PSU
    Standard 250 watt
    Case
    Desktop 7.2" (183mm) W x 17.5" (445mm) L x 14.5"
    Cooling
    Dual case fans + CPU fan
    Keyboard
    Acer Windows PS/2
    Mouse
    Wireless Microsoft Arc
    Internet Speed
    54mbp/s
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    Office Pro 2013 / Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows Phone 8.1DP GDR1
Sorry, but I disagree.

It is Microsoft's fault that they removed support from the kernel for processors that were supported in 8.0. It is an update since it's available from the store as an update. You don't have to buy a DVD or download a ISO to install it.

I see it exactly like when they released SP3 for XP. It was an update available through Windows Update but at the same time they refreshed the release channels so new CDs were at the SP3 level.

They should have waited until the next major releases, Windows 9 or whatever it's going to be called, to make this significant a change.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo IdeaCenter K450
    CPU
    Intel Quad Core i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Integrated HD Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP h2207
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050@59Hz
    Hard Drives
    250GB Samsung EVO SATA-3 SSD;
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001 SATA-2;
    1.5TB Seagate ST3150041AS SATA
    PSU
    500W
    Keyboard
    Wired USB
    Mouse
    Wired USB
    Internet Speed
    3GB Up, 30GB Down
    Browser
    SeaMonkey
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender; MBAM Pro
    Other Info
    UEFI/GPT
    PLDS DVD-RW DH16AERSH
Just as Microsoft gets no revenue from supporting legacy Microsoft software, hardware manufacturers get no revenue from supporting hardware items that they have superseded with newer and more capable technology.

No revenue means no future for an industry.

It is just the way that things are done with today's technology - that machines which are still in perfect working order, because they do not handle today's media, are scrapped and recycled to make way for current, but increasingly obsolescent machines.

If you are not connected to reliable, fast, affordable broadband, the chances are that you will lose out, since you will be unable to take advantage of contemporary software advances which, in turn, will tie you to legacy hardware and distribution methods.

It is not Microsoft's fault that they need to keep moving forwards to avoid stagnation. Like a shark, if they stop moving, they will run out of oxygen and die, and so will the whole ecosystem.

Yaaa! Post 666!!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP COMPAQ Presario CQ57
    CPU
    AMD E- 300 APU with Radion HD Graphics 1.30GHz
    Motherboard
    inbuilt
    Memory
    4GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI
    Sound Card
    High Definition Audio on-board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    notebook
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    Seagate ST9500325AS
    Google drive 15GB
    Skydrive 25GB
    BT Cloud
    PSU
    external 20v
    Case
    Laptop
    Cooling
    pretty good
    Keyboard
    inbuilt
    Mouse
    touchpad
    Internet Speed
    BT Infinity Unlimited - 80 up 20 down =70/16 really
    Browser
    Chrome Canary usually
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender and Malwarebytes
    Other Info
    no Start menu modifications
    Upgraded with no issues to 8.0 and to 8.1
Seems a step backward, I thought 8 actually ran on systems where windows 7 had trouble running. I had heard so many people were happy cos they were able to stick 8 into old systems and get some continued use out of them.

Now they wanna take a big step back, and increase the definition of "Planned Obsolescence" to now refer to things that were made just one year ago. I actually have the motherboard they are talking about there, I was planning on sticking Windows 8 on it once I got the Core Duo I just ordered for it. I guess I won't be sticking 8.1 on it.

Although I agree that companies need to develop new techs and software or die, but the most well known and most often used hardware makers keep drivers for hardware going back 15 to 20 years. Nearly all OEM websites have a "Legacy" section, and it does not lose them any money to keep it. Dell, for instance, if I could not get into a legacy section to download specific drivers, an otherwise useful motherboard would have to be thrown away. I've got 3 Dell Workstations that I have kept running that depend on that.

I love nothing better than to make a new system and put all the newest hardware in it, unless it is talking a 20 year old computer and making it run great. I have an apple museum on my workbench, all the way back to an LC-II.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro with Media Center/Windows 7
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Asus M2N-MX SE Plus § DualCore AMD Athlon 64 X2, 2300 MHz (11.5 x 200) 4400+ § Corsair Value Select
    CPU
    AMD 4400+/4200+
    Motherboard
    Asus M2N-MX SE Plus/Asus A8M2N-LA (NodusM)
    Memory
    2 GB/3GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce 8400 GS/GeForce 210
    Sound Card
    nVIDIA GT218 - High Definition Audio Controller
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Hitachi 40" LCD HDTV
    Screen Resolution
    "1842 x 1036"
    Hard Drives
    WDC WD50 00AAKS-007AA SCSI Disk Device
    ST1000DL 002-9TT153 SCSI Disk Device
    WDC WD3200AAJB-00J3A0 ATA Device
    WDC WD32 WD-WCAPZ2942630 USB Device
    WD My Book 1140 USB Device
    PSU
    Works 550w
    Case
    MSI "M-Box"
    Cooling
    Water Cooled
    Keyboard
    Dell Keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Intellimouse
    Internet Speed
    Cable Medium Speed
    Browser
    Chrome/IE 10
    Antivirus
    Eset NOD32 6.x/Win Defend
    Other Info
    Recently lost my Windows 8 on my main PC, had to go back to Windows 7.
When you look through the Microsoft support webpages, most of the references now say Windows 8.1 - its like Windows 8 is getting written out of history - becoming an unOS in Orwellian terms. When you can't download it, support it or find hardware to support it in a year's time, did it really exist, or did I imagine that there was a Windows 8?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP COMPAQ Presario CQ57
    CPU
    AMD E- 300 APU with Radion HD Graphics 1.30GHz
    Motherboard
    inbuilt
    Memory
    4GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI
    Sound Card
    High Definition Audio on-board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    notebook
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    Seagate ST9500325AS
    Google drive 15GB
    Skydrive 25GB
    BT Cloud
    PSU
    external 20v
    Case
    Laptop
    Cooling
    pretty good
    Keyboard
    inbuilt
    Mouse
    touchpad
    Internet Speed
    BT Infinity Unlimited - 80 up 20 down =70/16 really
    Browser
    Chrome Canary usually
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender and Malwarebytes
    Other Info
    no Start menu modifications
    Upgraded with no issues to 8.0 and to 8.1
Sorry, but I disagree.

You don't have to apologize for your opinion. We all have one and are entitled. You have valid points of which I listen to. Just like I tell my fiance, children, and loved ones > Sometimes we have to agree to disagree if we want to get along as long as no one's opinion denies the facts.

It is Microsoft's fault that they removed support from the kernel for processors that were supported in 8.0. It is an update since it's available from the store as an update. You don't have to buy a DVD or download a ISO to install it.

I see it exactly like when they released SP3 for XP. It was an update available through Windows Update but at the same time they refreshed the release channels so new CDs were at the SP3 level.

Fact > It has always been stated that it is an upgrade, not an update no matter how one obtains it. I continue to stand by and the fact remains that 8.1 is in fact a new edition. 8.1 is not called 8 SP1. I see it more as Windows 98SE. It was a newer edition than Windows 98. They were very similar. Were some machines that ran Windows 98 able to upgrade to Windows 98SE? No. Probably few machines as in this scenario.

They should have waited until the next major releases, Windows 9 or whatever it's going to be called, to make this significant a change.

Unfortunately sometimes it's one of life's quirks. We all have to deal with the facts. The fact remains that MS saw fit to make major kernel changes and are performing things in a different manner than they have in the past. Please don't think for one minute that I agree with it or that I don't feel bad for those that are left out. Not at all. I would for sure be disappointed being in your predicament.

The real problem lies in the fact that MS will not support 8 with the usual period of time. That to me is not right then they should correct or compensate it by some means.

Like I stated > I got lucky stretching this older Acer to 8.1. I don't think I'll make it to 8.2, 9, or whatever they'll call it. Odds will probably have it that I will have to upgrade to a new machine.

Has anyone tested whether or not 8.1 x86 will run on those particular machines? At least that may be some saving grace. Perhaps Intel will release a firmware update. Hopefully so.

Good luck to you and to others.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer T690
    CPU
    Intel Pentium D Dual Core
    Motherboard
    Acer/Intel E946GZ
    Memory
    2GB (max upgrade)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3000 - PCI Express x16
    Sound Card
    Integrated RealTek ALC888 high-definition audio with 7.1 channel audio support
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer AL1917W A LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1440 X 900
    Hard Drives
    350 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10
    Thumb drives
    PSU
    Standard 250 watt
    Case
    Desktop 7.2" (183mm) W x 17.5" (445mm) L x 14.5"
    Cooling
    Dual case fans + CPU fan
    Keyboard
    Acer Windows PS/2
    Mouse
    Wireless Microsoft Arc
    Internet Speed
    54mbp/s
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    Office Pro 2013 / Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows Phone 8.1DP GDR1
On the plus side, this give me a good excuse to buy a new computer :thumbsup:
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo IdeaCenter K450
    CPU
    Intel Quad Core i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Integrated HD Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP h2207
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050@59Hz
    Hard Drives
    250GB Samsung EVO SATA-3 SSD;
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001 SATA-2;
    1.5TB Seagate ST3150041AS SATA
    PSU
    500W
    Keyboard
    Wired USB
    Mouse
    Wired USB
    Internet Speed
    3GB Up, 30GB Down
    Browser
    SeaMonkey
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender; MBAM Pro
    Other Info
    UEFI/GPT
    PLDS DVD-RW DH16AERSH

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer T690
    CPU
    Intel Pentium D Dual Core
    Motherboard
    Acer/Intel E946GZ
    Memory
    2GB (max upgrade)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3000 - PCI Express x16
    Sound Card
    Integrated RealTek ALC888 high-definition audio with 7.1 channel audio support
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer AL1917W A LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1440 X 900
    Hard Drives
    350 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10
    Thumb drives
    PSU
    Standard 250 watt
    Case
    Desktop 7.2" (183mm) W x 17.5" (445mm) L x 14.5"
    Cooling
    Dual case fans + CPU fan
    Keyboard
    Acer Windows PS/2
    Mouse
    Wireless Microsoft Arc
    Internet Speed
    54mbp/s
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    Office Pro 2013 / Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows Phone 8.1DP GDR1
50 years! I am ever so cautious as far as "unnecessary expenditures" go!!!!!!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo IdeaCenter K450
    CPU
    Intel Quad Core i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz
    Motherboard
    Lenovo
    Memory
    16.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Integrated HD Graphics
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    HP h2207
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050@59Hz
    Hard Drives
    250GB Samsung EVO SATA-3 SSD;
    2TB Seagate ST2000DM001 SATA-2;
    1.5TB Seagate ST3150041AS SATA
    PSU
    500W
    Keyboard
    Wired USB
    Mouse
    Wired USB
    Internet Speed
    3GB Up, 30GB Down
    Browser
    SeaMonkey
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender; MBAM Pro
    Other Info
    UEFI/GPT
    PLDS DVD-RW DH16AERSH
Wow! Congratulations!

I would tell her that it is a necessary expenditure > On your knees begging of course! :D
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer T690
    CPU
    Intel Pentium D Dual Core
    Motherboard
    Acer/Intel E946GZ
    Memory
    2GB (max upgrade)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3000 - PCI Express x16
    Sound Card
    Integrated RealTek ALC888 high-definition audio with 7.1 channel audio support
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer AL1917W A LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1440 X 900
    Hard Drives
    350 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10
    Thumb drives
    PSU
    Standard 250 watt
    Case
    Desktop 7.2" (183mm) W x 17.5" (445mm) L x 14.5"
    Cooling
    Dual case fans + CPU fan
    Keyboard
    Acer Windows PS/2
    Mouse
    Wireless Microsoft Arc
    Internet Speed
    54mbp/s
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    Office Pro 2013 / Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows Phone 8.1DP GDR1
Throw it away

On the plus side, this give me a good excuse to buy a new computer

That's the whole point.
You are supposed to throw your PC away and buy a new one (just as if it were a tablet or phone).

Recently I was wondering why hardware makers kowtowed to MS' demand that they use UEFI.
It costs them extra money (new components, circuit board design changes, etc.) and it restricts the number of potential buyers.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
On the plus side, this give me a good excuse to buy a new computer

That's the whole point.
You are supposed to throw your PC away and buy a new one (just as if it were a tablet or phone).

Recently I was wondering why hardware makers kowtowed to MS' demand that they use UEFI.
It costs them extra money (new components, circuit board design changes, etc.) and it restricts the number of potential buyers.

Only for the first few tens of thousands of units - then economies of scale kick in - early upgraders are often prepared to take the financial hit to be at the cutting edge. After that, the "new" products and their components become mainstream, and cheap.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP COMPAQ Presario CQ57
    CPU
    AMD E- 300 APU with Radion HD Graphics 1.30GHz
    Motherboard
    inbuilt
    Memory
    4GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI
    Sound Card
    High Definition Audio on-board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    notebook
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    Seagate ST9500325AS
    Google drive 15GB
    Skydrive 25GB
    BT Cloud
    PSU
    external 20v
    Case
    Laptop
    Cooling
    pretty good
    Keyboard
    inbuilt
    Mouse
    touchpad
    Internet Speed
    BT Infinity Unlimited - 80 up 20 down =70/16 really
    Browser
    Chrome Canary usually
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender and Malwarebytes
    Other Info
    no Start menu modifications
    Upgraded with no issues to 8.0 and to 8.1
On the plus side, this give me a good excuse to buy a new computer

That's the whole point.
You are supposed to throw your PC away and buy a new one (just as if it were a tablet or phone).

Recently I was wondering why hardware makers kowtowed to MS' demand that they use UEFI.
It costs them extra money (new components, circuit board design changes, etc.) and it restricts the number of potential buyers.

Only for the first few tens of thousands of units - then economies of scale kick in - early upgraders are often prepared to take the financial hit to be at the cutting edge. After that, the "new" products and their components become mainstream, and cheap.

Indeed.
However that doesn't seem to be the mentality of manufacturers.

Including a $2 more expensive component, which will save $100 in warranty claims would seem to be a "no brainer" to most people.
Manufacturers don't see it that way.

My point was that there was actually no reason for manufacturers to change anything to suit MS.

Operating systems need hardware.
What was MS going to do?
Not release a new OS?
Therefore MS must have offered them something, other than a pretty sticker, for their trouble.

Judging by some of the threads I've viewed on EightForums, this UEFI thing is screwing over people with legitimate copies of W8.
Of course it is also causing trouble for people with other versions of Windows (and Linux).
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
That's the whole point.
You are supposed to throw your PC away and buy a new one (just as if it were a tablet or phone).

Recently I was wondering why hardware makers kowtowed to MS' demand that they use UEFI.
It costs them extra money (new components, circuit board design changes, etc.) and it restricts the number of potential buyers.

Only for the first few tens of thousands of units - then economies of scale kick in - early upgraders are often prepared to take the financial hit to be at the cutting edge. After that, the "new" products and their components become mainstream, and cheap.

Indeed.
However that doesn't seem to be the mentality of manufacturers.

Including a $2 more expensive component, which will save $100 in warranty claims would seem to be a "no brainer" to most people.
Manufacturers don't see it that way.

My point was that there was actually no reason for manufacturers to change anything to suit MS.

Operating systems need hardware.
What was MS going to do?
Not release a new OS?
Therefore MS must have offered them something, other than a pretty sticker, for their trouble.

Judging by some of the threads I've viewed on EightForums, this UEFI thing is screwing over people with legitimate copies of W8.
Of course it is also causing trouble for people with other versions of Windows (and Linux).

UEFI was not introduced by Microsoft nor is it a solo project by them. It is a collaboration of different companies. EFI was created by Intel which grew into the Unified EFI Forum.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFI_Forum

This is all created for better and secure booting. And yes, to help eliminate piracy. Windows is not the only software that is pirated. I'm not surprised at all that any of them jumped on board.

This is new tech. Usually as with all new tech it is a PITA. I think we should give it time for them to work the kinks out.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer T690
    CPU
    Intel Pentium D Dual Core
    Motherboard
    Acer/Intel E946GZ
    Memory
    2GB (max upgrade)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3000 - PCI Express x16
    Sound Card
    Integrated RealTek ALC888 high-definition audio with 7.1 channel audio support
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer AL1917W A LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1440 X 900
    Hard Drives
    350 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10
    Thumb drives
    PSU
    Standard 250 watt
    Case
    Desktop 7.2" (183mm) W x 17.5" (445mm) L x 14.5"
    Cooling
    Dual case fans + CPU fan
    Keyboard
    Acer Windows PS/2
    Mouse
    Wireless Microsoft Arc
    Internet Speed
    54mbp/s
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    Office Pro 2013 / Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows Phone 8.1DP GDR1
UEFI was not introduced by Microsoft nor is it a solo project by them. It is a collaboration of different companies. EFI was created by Intel which grew into the Unified EFI Forum.

Unified EFI Forum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I didn't mean to imply that MS invented UEFI.
Apple has used EFI for ~7 years.

MS insisted on it and the OEMs got a sticker for their trouble.

This is all created for better and secure booting. And yes, to help eliminate piracy. Windows is not the only software that is pirated. I'm not surprised at all that any of them jumped on board.

OS piracy doesn't hurt the component makers (i.e. manufacturers of motherboards, RAM, HDDs, SSDs, etc.).
It actually increases their sales (pirates can't run a pirated OS without hardware).

At least one person demonstrated a "Secure Boot" hack (it required Local Access) before W8 even made it to the market.

This is new tech. Usually as with all new tech it is a PITA. I think we should give it time for them to work the kinks out.

New for MS (and their OEMs) apparently.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), Linux Mint 18.3 MATE (64 bit)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    n/a
    CPU
    AMD Phenom II x6 1055T, 2.8 GHz
    Motherboard
    ASRock 880GMH-LE/USB3
    Memory
    8GB DDR3 1333 G-Skill Ares F3-1333C9D-8GAO (4GB x 2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI Radeon HD6450
    Sound Card
    Realtek?
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung S23B350
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Western Digital 1.5 TB (SATA), Western Digital 2 TB (SATA), Western Digital 3 TB (SATA)
    Case
    Tower
    Mouse
    Wired Optical
    Other Info
    Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 17 MATE (64 bit) - 2014-05-17
    Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 16 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-11-13
    Ubuntu 10.04 (64 bit) replaced with Linux Mint 14 MATE (64 bit) - 2013-01-14
    RAM & Graphics Card Upgraded - 2013-01-13
    Monitor Upgraded - 2012-04-20
    System Upgraded - 2011-05-21, 2010-07-14
    HDD Upgraded - 2010-08-11, 2011-08-24,
Sorry, but I disagree.

It is Microsoft's fault that they removed support from the kernel for processors that were supported in 8.0. It is an update since it's available from the store as an update. You don't have to buy a DVD or download a ISO to install it.

I see it exactly like when they released SP3 for XP. It was an update available through Windows Update but at the same time they refreshed the release channels so new CDs were at the SP3 level.

They should have waited until the next major releases, Windows 9 or whatever it's going to be called, to make this significant a change.

I am in absolute agreement with you on this! Microsoft has advertised 8.1 as an UPDATE and that's what it should be!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion 500-056
    CPU
    AMD Elite Quad-Core A8-6500
    Memory
    8 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon HD 8570D
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer 23"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 X 1080
    Hard Drives
    1 TB
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wave K350
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Internet Speed
    Fast
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
It is not Microsoft's fault that they need to keep moving forwards to avoid stagnation. Like a shark, if they stop moving, they will run out of oxygen and die, and so will the whole ecosystem.

Yaaa! Post 666!!

Well, yeah, and the "ecosystem" can be translated to Microsoft customers. At the moment, in my opinion, Windows 7 is the most viable OS around. It's stable, almost anything one wants can be run on it, and I already own as many licenses as I can use (and also a couple copies that have been removed from defunct PCs), and I can install those last two copies on other systems if I wish (only requires a call to Microsoft).

The only reason I even wanted to upgrade to Windows 8/8.1 is to have something new to play with. And the fact that I decided I needed to upgrade my hardware without having to build a new PC (first system I've bought except for laptops in 15 years) and Windows 8 came on it.

So, my holding to Windows 7 on my other three computers should equate to holding the shark so it can't move and maybe die. And destroy the ecosystem with it.

So . . . it would seem to me that the shark (Microsoft) would want to create an environment of trust and mutual respect between itself and the other denizens of the sea (us) in order to keep its ecosystem viable.

Why is it Microsoft's job to see that older systems are phased out? To obsolete perfectly good computers with a change in OS specs only serves to oversupply our landfills with (you filll in the blank).
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion 500-056
    CPU
    AMD Elite Quad-Core A8-6500
    Memory
    8 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD Radeon HD 8570D
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer 23"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 X 1080
    Hard Drives
    1 TB
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wave K350
    Mouse
    Logitech M510
    Internet Speed
    Fast
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
The "ecosystem" is the users, customers, OEMs, component fabricators, OS producers, application development houses and IT professionals who advise, install, train and fix things that go wrong. It includes you me and this forum, our children and the developing economies of the rapidly changing 3rd world.

Much as many folk hate to admit it, Microsoft is the driving force behind the computer industry (the energy that powers the ecosystem) and has been since the early 90s. In this way you are right to say Microsoft is the critical element in the ecosystem, and Microsoft would not exist but for its customers.

Microsoft is a victim of its own success with XP, and is determined that it will not create another Frankenstein's monster that will not die, yet out-competes all its younger stablemates with sheer tenacity, and reinforces a perceptual model that is intimately tied to the desktop and start menu that most users have grown up with, and find so hard to give up with Windows 8.

By having a large proportion of Microsoft customers not actually paying money to Microsoft any longer, Microsoft loses money, without losing market share. That threatens the whole computer industry with stagnation. The hardware and component manufacturers also want to continue innovation instead of folding or shrinking through lack of sales.

In order to break the mould, the current strategy with with Windows 8/8.1 has been to make the system incompatible with older hardware - whether this is a terrible mistake, time will tell. Microsoft is after all making a major foray into manufacturing its own hardware on three fronts - Gaming, Phones, and Mobile Computing, and wants a single codebase for all flavours of its products. That keeps prices down, in theory.

Microsoft does not force you to change your car for a newer model, even if it still is running well after 10 years of daily use. Nor your TV, mobile phone, GPS or curtains. You change these things because you want new ones, or at least, newer ones than you currently use. Microsoft also does not force you to stop running your Windows 7 or XP machines, but it will not run Windows 7 on a 486SX2/66 with 8MB RAM either. Just as there are people still running Windows 98 to control industrial equipment today, there will still be people running XP and Windows 7 ten years in the future. Microsoft just will not support these users, and neither will the hardware manufactured in 2023.

It has parallels with the fashion industry - nobody wants last years colours and styles. I'd bet that nobody blames a couturier for making a fashion-conscious someone throw out her old wardrobe.

The problem with Microsoft, and the perception it creates, is the near monopoly it has in business and home computing. As far as PCs are concerned, Microsoft "owns" the hardware manufacturers. That gives Microsoft the mandate to dictate future developments in computing, and since it wants to extend into parallel markets of phone and mobile computing, to decide what hardware is going to be compatible.

An environment of trust is laid down in some rules like Product Lifecycle, EULAs, and commitment to support, fix bugs and problems, and for the product to perform as specified. For that trust you pay for a license to use the product in a certain way in compliance with those rules. Believe it or not, you do have consumer rights and can return your license back to Microsoft for a refund if the product does not work as reasonably expected.

Neither are you committed to send your used hardware for landfill. Your state legislature is committed to increasing recycling of Electronics Guidance for the Texas Recycles Computers Program and there are programs for recycling computers in place Texas Recycles Computers Program.

What may be obsolete to a user who wants the latest OS on their system may be the best ever gift to a child who has been raised in relative educational poverty. A computer with an internet connection in a village in certain parts of the world compares to having a new public library in your town 100 or so years ago. Don't forget that charities help underprivileged people at home and overseas, where your working but dated computer and OEM or upgraded software will get an extended lease of life and help educate children to live richer lives in the 21st century. Microsoft and the Gates Foundation itself is noted for the charitable works it does globally.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP COMPAQ Presario CQ57
    CPU
    AMD E- 300 APU with Radion HD Graphics 1.30GHz
    Motherboard
    inbuilt
    Memory
    4GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    ATI
    Sound Card
    High Definition Audio on-board
    Monitor(s) Displays
    notebook
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    Seagate ST9500325AS
    Google drive 15GB
    Skydrive 25GB
    BT Cloud
    PSU
    external 20v
    Case
    Laptop
    Cooling
    pretty good
    Keyboard
    inbuilt
    Mouse
    touchpad
    Internet Speed
    BT Infinity Unlimited - 80 up 20 down =70/16 really
    Browser
    Chrome Canary usually
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender and Malwarebytes
    Other Info
    no Start menu modifications
    Upgraded with no issues to 8.0 and to 8.1
Back
Top