Automatic shutdown disables Fast Startup?

AmigaRoots

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I use several applications (video encoders, download tools etc.) that offer a "shutdown when done" option. What I've noticed with Win 8 x64, is that when this type of shutdown is executed, Fast Startup is disabled and when the PC is turned back on, boot-up time is significantly increased (similar to a restart, where Fast Startup is also disabled). Is there a way around this? It seems unlikely that all these applications do something wrong. Maybe Windows treats this type of shutdown differently?
 

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    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
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    Custom built
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    Intel Q9650 (3GHz)
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    4 GB
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    AMD 5670
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So, you have checked to make sure that fast start is enabled and then somehow it gets disabled automatically?
 

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    Windows 8 Pro Windows 8.1 Preview
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So, you have checked to make sure that fast start is enabled and then somehow it gets disabled automatically?
Yes of course, it works normally.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom built
    CPU
    Intel Q9650 (3GHz)
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD 5670
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2 X Dell
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
So, you have checked to make sure that fast start is enabled and then somehow it gets disabled automatically?
Yes of course, it works normally.

Well, if you think that it works normally (as you described) then what is your issue? Is this just an FYI because I have several of those programs and they never change my fast booy option to disabled.
 

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  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro Windows 8.1 Preview
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I meant it works normally, apart from the issue I described of course, otherwise why would I post? :geek:

The "turn on fast startup" option in Power, is never disabled/unticked, if that's what you mean. What I explained is that, when the PC is turned on after an automatic shutdown (by applications offering such a shutdown option, and there are many of them), the boot-up time is evidently increased, indicating that Fast Startup has not been enabled. If I manually shut the PC down and then turn it on, Fast Startup works as expected.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom built
    CPU
    Intel Q9650 (3GHz)
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD 5670
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2 X Dell
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
I meant it works normally, apart from the issue I described of course, otherwise why would I post? :geek:

The "turn on fast startup" options in Power, is never disabled/unticked, if that's what you mean. What I explained is that, when the PC is turned on after an automatic shutdown (by applications offering such an option, and there are many of them), the boot-up time is evidently increased, indicating that Fast Startup has not been enabled. If I manually shut the PC down and then turn it on, Fast Startup works as expected.

OK, the light just went on after the above clarification. Now, it seems to me like that would be normal; in that, you have specifically requested that program to intervene (eg, hold off shutdown until I'm done) in the fast boot shutdown process and that is somehow disrupting the fast boot inherent ability to write the state information in hiberfil.sys so it can be quickly accessed on next boot. That's the best explanation I can give on your issue. Sounds like what you are describing is a normal behavior when you request a hold-off on shutdown.
 

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  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro Windows 8.1 Preview
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I see what you mean, but there is no shutdown to hold, the way I see it. I just assume the application gives the "order" to Windows to shutdown, instead of the user. The application does what it does (there is no trace of a shutdown command yet) and only when it's done, it will execute the regular shutdown command. Why should that be different from a user shutdown, for Fast Startup at least?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom built
    CPU
    Intel Q9650 (3GHz)
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD 5670
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2 X Dell
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
I use several applications (video encoders, download tools etc.) that offer a "shutdown when done" option.

Now I'm not getting it again. Doesn't an offered option have to be acknowledged? If its a tickbox in the application somewhere, uncheck it. However, if you are in the middle of running a program (and you know it executing), then shame on anyone who tries to shutdown during a known running process. I'm not talking about background processes. I'm talking about shutting down while Adobe Photoshop is in the middle of a 100mb image conversion (or similar function).
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro Windows 8.1 Preview
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
AmigaRoots, it's possible that these applications invoke full shutdown, the same way this command does (note the /f switch).
Code:
shutdown /s /f /t 0

But so far you're assuming it's a full shutdown. The next time you turn on the system after such a shutdown, check event 100 in the Diagnostics-Performance log right away or just inspect the results of the PowerShell command below.
Code:
Get-WinEvent -maxevents 1 -FilterHashtable @{logname="Microsoft-Windows-Diagnostics-Performance/Operational"; id=100} | fl *

If it was a full shutdown, the TimeCreated value will correspond to the time you turned the system on. Otherwise, it was not a full shutdown, because this event is not written to the log when system comes back from the fast startup. Event 300 corresponds to fast startup, because the OS technically resumes from hibernation.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro x64
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion dv7t (17.3'', i7-2630QM, HD 6770M 1Gb, 8Gb RAM, 2 SSD@120Gb + 1 HDD@750Gb)
Now I'm not getting it again. Doesn't an offered option have to be acknowledged? If its a tickbox in the application somewhere, uncheck it. However, if you are in the middle of running a program (and you know it executing), then shame on anyone who tries to shutdown during a known running process. I'm not talking about background processes. I'm talking about shutting down while Adobe Photoshop is in the middle of a 100mb image conversion (or similar function).
I think you are making things more complicated than they are! Nothing/no one is forcing a shutdown. Take utorrent for example. It's crammed with such options in its autoshutdown menu. Other applications, mostly video encoders, just have a "switch" that you can change any time, while they are working. They don't "acknowledge" it, they just check the state of the switch when their job is done. Yes, you might run into problems if you program an application to shutdown Windows, when you also have other ones working, but there is no reason a user should do that and it's not what I describe anyway.

AmigaRoots, it's possible that these applications invoke full shutdown, the same way this command does (note the /f switch).
Code:
shutdown /s /f /t 0
This sounds quite likely. I don't know the technical differences between a full shutdown and a "user" shutdown, but obviously the full one disables Fast Startup (or enables other stuff that significantly increase boot-time). Maybe all these applications need to update their auto-shutdown method, because things have changed from Windows 7 (Fast Startup), and what in Win 7 was a "normal" shutdown, in 8 is a shutdown without Fast Startup.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom built
    CPU
    Intel Q9650 (3GHz)
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD 5670
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2 X Dell
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
Now I'm not getting it again. Doesn't an offered option have to be acknowledged? If its a tickbox in the application somewhere, uncheck it. However, if you are in the middle of running a program (and you know it executing), then shame on anyone who tries to shutdown during a known running process. I'm not talking about background processes. I'm talking about shutting down while Adobe Photoshop is in the middle of a 100mb image conversion (or similar function).
I think you are making things more complicated than they are! Nothing/no one is forcing a shutdown. Take utorrent for example. It's crammed with such options in its autoshutdown menu. Other applications, mostly video encoders, just have a "switch" that you can change any time, while they are working. They don't "acknowledge" it, they just check the state of the switch when their job is done. Yes, you might run into problems if you program an application to shutdown Windows, when you also have other ones working, but there is no reason a user should do that and it's not what I describe anyway.

AmigaRoots, it's possible that these applications invoke full shutdown, the same way this command does (note the /f switch).
Code:
shutdown /s /f /t 0
This sounds quite likely. I don't know the technical differences between a full shutdown and a "user" shutdown, but obviously the full one disables Fast Startup (or enables other stuff that significantly increase boot-time). Maybe all these applications need to update their auto-shutdown method, because things have changed from Windows 7 (Fast Startup), and what in Win 7 was a "normal" shutdown, in 8 is a shutdown without Fast Startup.

Sounds like you already know more than I do so just go fix it. Then tell us how you did it and I'll rep you for the fix. Fair enough? goodbye...
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro Windows 8.1 Preview
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
This sounds quite likely. I don't know the technical differences between a full shutdown and a "user" shutdown, but obviously the full one disables Fast Startup (or enables other stuff that significantly increase boot-time). Maybe all these applications need to update their auto-shutdown method, because things have changed from Windows 7 (Fast Startup), and what in Win 7 was a "normal" shutdown, in 8 is a shutdown without Fast Startup.
I think you got it the other way around. It's incorrect to say "disables", I'd rather say that full shutdown or restart bypass fast startup for the reasons outlined above.

1. In Windows 7, when you shut down or restart, you log off the user and shut down the system. When you turn on your PC, system restarts and user logs on.

2. In Windows 8, when you shut down, you log off the user and hibernate the system. When you turn on your PC, system resumes from hibernate and user logs on.

3. In Windows 8, when you do full shutdown (/f switch) or restart, you get the same result as in point 1.

The whole thing is for people who can't drop a habit of turning off their PCs at EOD instead of letting it sleep or hibernate. For technical details, refer to Delivering fast boot times in Windows 8 - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro x64
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion dv7t (17.3'', i7-2630QM, HD 6770M 1Gb, 8Gb RAM, 2 SSD@120Gb + 1 HDD@750Gb)
Sounds like you already know more than I do so just go fix it. Then tell us how you did it and I'll rep you for the fix. Fair enough? goodbye...

:huh:

This sounds quite likely. I don't know the technical differences between a full shutdown and a "user" shutdown, but obviously the full one disables Fast Startup (or enables other stuff that significantly increase boot-time). Maybe all these applications need to update their auto-shutdown method, because things have changed from Windows 7 (Fast Startup), and what in Win 7 was a "normal" shutdown, in 8 is a shutdown without Fast Startup.
I think you got it the other way around. It's incorrect to say "disables", I'd rather say that full shutdown or restart bypass fast startup for the reasons outlined above.

1. In Windows 7, when you shut down or restart, you log off the user and shut down the system. When you turn on your PC, system restarts and user logs on.

2. In Windows 8, when you shut down, you log off the user and hibernate the system. When you turn on your PC, system resumes from hibernate and user logs on.

3. In Windows 8, when you do full shutdown (/f switch) or restart, you get the same result as in point 1.

The whole thing is for people who can't drop a habit of turning off their PCs at EOD instead of letting it sleep or hibernate. For technical details, refer to Delivering fast boot times in Windows 8 - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

Thanks, it's more clear now. It's then up to each application to perform a "Windows 8 shutdown" (log off+hibernate) instead of a "Windows 7 shutdown". I haven't tested yet but it's most probable these applications perform the full shutdown, which yields different results between W8 and the rest.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom built
    CPU
    Intel Q9650 (3GHz)
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD 5670
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2 X Dell
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
I really don't see a reason for applications to perform full shutdown, especially since it requires code changes and doesn't benefit the user. Why don't you test, review event logs and post the results? That way we can put the thread to rest properly :)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro x64
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion dv7t (17.3'', i7-2630QM, HD 6770M 1Gb, 8Gb RAM, 2 SSD@120Gb + 1 HDD@750Gb)
I don't know where to look for this log... Also, the Powershell code gives me the attached error.
Other indications: with the 'User' shutdown, I can turn the pc on with a keyboard press. Also, the monitor switches off first and the pc follows after writing its hibernation file for about 5 seconds. Just tried an auto-shutdown, and the pc will not turn on from the keyboard. The monitor and pc switched off almost simultaneously.
 

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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom built
    CPU
    Intel Q9650 (3GHz)
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD 5670
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2 X Dell
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
I don't know where to look for this log...
Open eventvwr.msc and navigate to Application and Services Logs - Microsoft - Windows - Diagnostics-Performance - Operational

Also, the Powershell code gives me the attached error.
It's not an error, it says there are no events that match the criteria (meaning it can't find event 100 for some reason).

Other indications: with the 'User' shutdown, I can turn the pc on with a keyboard press. Also, the monitor switches off first and the pc follows after writing its hibernation file for about 5 seconds. Just tried an auto-shutdown, and the pc will not turn on from the keyboard. The monitor and pc switched off almost simultaneously.
Honestly, I have no idea how you configured your power options / keyboard. If you send your PC to hibernation by pressing the keyboard key, it's not a shutdown. See also Sleep and hibernation: frequently asked questions

Please don't introduce unknown variables while you're testing things and use the menu in Win+I to shutdown or reboot.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro x64
    Computer type
    Laptop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion dv7t (17.3'', i7-2630QM, HD 6770M 1Gb, 8Gb RAM, 2 SSD@120Gb + 1 HDD@750Gb)
Honestly, I have no idea how you configured your power options / keyboard. If you send your PC to hibernation by pressing the keyboard key, it's not a shutdown...
Please don't introduce unknown variables while you're testing things and use the menu in Win+I to shutdown or reboot.
No, I didn't say I turn off/hibernate the pc with a button. I said that when I shutdown the pc normally myself, the pc will turn on with the press of a keyboard button (the space bar does it, for example, but I think any key will do - haven't tested). It will not turn on with a keyboard button, if it was auto-shutdown (which is most probably the full-shutdown, as you pointed out).

Ok, I will try to confirm all this from the logs, thanks for the links.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom built
    CPU
    Intel Q9650 (3GHz)
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD 5670
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2 X Dell
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
If it was a full shutdown, the TimeCreated value will correspond to the time you turned the system on. Otherwise, it was not a full shutdown, because this event is not written to the log when system comes back from the fast startup. Event 300 corresponds to fast startup, because the OS technically resumes from hibernation.
Just booted from an auto-shutdown and found 1 error entry with Event ID 100 and the current date/time. There was only one more (warning) entry with the current date/time (Event 101).
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom built
    CPU
    Intel Q9650 (3GHz)
    Memory
    4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    AMD 5670
    Monitor(s) Displays
    2 X Dell
    Screen Resolution
    1680x1050
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