Random Explorer.exe APPCRASH??

JohnnyGui · Jan 16, 2013

Hey all,

Since the beginning of january I've been experiencing an occasional explorer.exe crash every once in a while. It has happened 3 times now and I have no idea what causes it. It occurs only when I switch rapidly from Dekstop to the Metro UI and then back to the Desktop again although this does not always provoke the crash. I can then see the taskbar restarting. Also, in every case I had Internet Explorer running on the Desktop. The crash is unpredictable.

I haven't installed any drivers or software the first day the error occurred other than a steam tile app that I uninstalled the very same day.

Here's the log of the crash:

Pad naar toepassing met fout: C:\Windows\explorer.exe
Naam van probleemgebeurtenis: APPCRASH
Naam van de toepassing: Explorer.EXE
Versie van toepassing: 6.2.9200.16433
Tijdstempel van toepassing: 50763312
Naam van foutmodule: twinui.dll
Versie van foutmodule: 6.2.9200.16451
Tijdstempel van foutmodule: 50988289
Uitzonderingscode: c0000005
Uitzonderingsmarge: 000000000017f6de
Versie van besturingssysteem: 6.2.9200.2.0.0.256.48
Landinstelling-id: 1043
Aanvullende informatie 1: 6098
Aanvullende informatie 2: 60986a539a8bde104ebf222b3e1bac9c
Aanvullende informatie 3: 8b7b
Aanvullende informatie 4: 8b7b4ec50c6a6d02946950199292a3a4
Bucket-id: 2488186dd6522af8c1b0b45c2d2c39f8 (85393340)

My specs:
Windows 8 Pro 64 bit
8 GB RAM
1 TB HDD
i5 3570K
GTX 660Ti

Any idea how to fix this?

Thanks in advance,

John

Mystere · Jan 16, 2013

TwinUI is what allows Metro and Desktop to coincide on the same interface.

Have you installed any start menu replacements? Have you made any modifications to system files (lots of people hack dll's to change things about windows they don't like).

JohnnyGui · Jan 16, 2013

No I haven't installed any mods or modified any system files since I know they could cause problems. However, I just remembered that I ran a sfc/ scannow prompt 5 days before the first crash because of a BSOD I had back then. The SFC found and repaired the following files:

000006fd [SR] Repairing corrupted file [ml:520{260},l:46{23}]"\??\C:\Windows\System32"\[l:16{8}]"mfds.dll" from store
000006fe [SR] Repairing corrupted file [ml:60{30},l:58{29}]"\??\C:\Windows\SysWOW64\en-US"\[l:46{23}]"windows.ui.xaml.dll.mui" from store
000006ff [SR] Repairing corrupted file [ml:520{260},l:46{23}]"\??\C:\Windows\System32"\[l:34{17}]"mfmpeg2srcsnk.dll" from store
00000700 [SR] Repairing corrupted file [ml:48{24},l:46{23}]"\??\C:\Windows\SysWOW64"\[l:34{17}]"mfmpeg2srcsnk.dll" from store
00000701 [SR] Repairing corrupted file [ml:48{24},l:46{23}]"\??\C:\Windows\SysWOW64"\[l:16{8}]"mfds.dll" from store

Could these files have anything to do with the crash since they are modified by de SFC? Btw, I never had a BSOD since then.

Mystere · Jan 16, 2013

Have you run sfc since then?

JohnnyGui · Jan 16, 2013

I did run it a couple of times (also after the explorer.exe crash) but it didn't find any corrupted files anymore.

Mystere · Jan 16, 2013

Well, here's the thing. If you had corrupted files, that could be a symptom of problems with your hard disk. That means that other files, like configuration files, the registry, etc.. might also be corrupted. These are files that sfc can't track because they are always being updated. You may be forced to re-install or refresh your system.

JohnnyGui · Jan 16, 2013

Quite a heavy fix for this. Aren't there any other tools that can check for corrupted config files, registry and so on? Also I doubt that there are problems with my harddisk since the BSOD I had was referring to a faulty driver or a memory problem. I ran the windows diagnostic tool for memory problems back then but it didn't find any. :/

topgundcp · Jan 16, 2013

JohnnyGui said:
Quite a heavy fix for this. Aren't there any other tools that can check for corrupted config files, registry and so on? Also I doubt that there are problems with my harddisk since the BSOD I had was referring to a faulty driver or a memory problem. I ran the windows diagnostic tool for memory problems back then but it didn't find any. :/

windows diagnostic tool for memory is not a good tool, I was helping somebody in this forum and he ran it for 12 hours without finding any thing wrong then he switched to use: memtest86+ and found out that his memery was bad.

Here is the link to download memtest86+
Memory Diagnostics

cluberti · Jan 16, 2013

I did a quick search and found a few gens:
Explorer.exe crash - twinui.dll
Explorer.exe crashing - twinui.dll?

JohnnyGui · Jan 18, 2013

@ topgundcp: Thanks! I'll try it out.

@ cluberti: I found those links aswell, however I just noticed I skipped a line back then that exactly describes my problem (I think):
"Explorer crashes while changing a desktop mode. But this is a MSFT bug that we can't fix. Contact the MSDN/Technet support"

So I guess there's no fix for this other than contacting MSDN/Technet support...

topgundcp · Jan 18, 2013

Hi John,
Explorer.exe is a core file in Windows and also a tough one to debug as you said, The reason is lot of times when explorer crashes, it is not because explorer itself but something else causes it to crash. For example:

If you install a 3rd party software and it put an incompatible shell extension for the context menu. It will cause explorer to freeze or crash. I experienced this problem with Acronis True Image 2013.
If you open a folder which contains corrupted Video file in thumbnail view and explorer tries to build a thumbnail for it, it will freeze.
If you have an add-on to Internet Explorer and explorer cannot resolve it. It will freeze or crash.
etc...... ????

We sometimes don't realize important role of explorer in Windows but it is. Explorer is constantly sitting the background monitoring all the activities we are doing with Windows, Constantly update Registry Values, in some case it also creates files etc....

You can download: Process Monitor and run as Administrator, Click on Filter and set it to: "Process Name is Explorer" then try to run something: Firefox, IE10, switch screen etc.... then you'll see how explorer works in the background.

You also want to download: Autoruns for Windows and run as Administrator, click on the explorer Tab and temporarily disable all the non microsoft shell extensions and also on Internet Explorer Tab and temporarily disable the non Microsoft Add-ons.

EDIT: BTW, did you have the latest Video Driver Installed for your Geforce GTX 660Ti ???

cluberti · Jan 18, 2013

JohnnyGui said:
So I guess there's no fix for this other than contacting MSDN/Technet support...

Well, if you can get a dump of the crash occurring, I can try to figure out what's at fault here. However, someone who is not Microsoft blaming Microsoft for a bug isn't necessarily wrong, but it would be wise to dig deeper. If it was Microsoft themselves saying so, there'd usually be an explanation or article documenting what the bug is and how to avoid it, so I think it'd be worthwhile to gather and analyze some dump data first.

JohnnyGui · Mar 2, 2013

cluberti said:
JohnnyGui said:

So I guess there's no fix for this other than contacting MSDN/Technet support...

Click to expand...

Well, if you can get a dump of the crash occurring, I can try to figure out what's at fault here. However, someone who is not Microsoft blaming Microsoft for a bug isn't necessarily wrong, but it would be wise to dig deeper. If it was Microsoft themselves saying so, there'd usually be an explanation or article documenting what the bug is and how to avoid it, so I think it'd be worthwhile to gather and analyze some dump data first.

Hey, sorry for the late reply. Seems I didn't get any notifications when someone replied in my thread. Anyway, in the mean time I have reformatted my PC and the problem still occurs although much less often. Here's the crashdump I found in the users folder. Thanks for your help!

cluberti · Mar 3, 2013

Of note, this isn't the issue that was pointed to in either of the links previously provided - this is very different, and it's specifically a directx call (inline, inside a TwinUI call to update mouse information):

Code:

0:004> k
  *** Stack trace for last set context - .thread/.cxr resets it
Child-SP          RetAddr           Call Site
(Inline Function) --------`-------- twinui!CSafeElementPtrBase<DirectUI::Element>::operator class DirectUI::Element *
(Inline Function) --------`-------- twinui!LayeredSubtreeState::_Layer+0x188
00000000`03a2e620 000007fa`b17cf650 twinui!LayeredSubtreeState::Update+0xf6
00000000`03a2e670 000007fa`b1697f0b twinui!CTileElement::_UpdateMouseVisuals+0x2c
(Inline Function) --------`-------- twinui!CTileElement::OnPropertyChanged+0xffffffff`ffecc5e8
00000000`03a2e6a0 000007fa`bafd3c5e twinui!CGridTileElement::OnPropertyChanged+0x151
00000000`03a2e710 000007fa`bafd4978 dui70!DirectUI::Element::_PostSourceChange+0x347
00000000`03a2e7b0 000007fa`ba5b1c2d dui70!DirectUI::Element::_DisplayNodeCallback+0x168
00000000`03a2ebb0 000007fa`ba5b588f duser!GPCB::xwInvokeDirect+0x6d
00000000`03a2ec50 000007fa`ba5c90a7 duser!GPCB::xwInvokeFull+0x19b
00000000`03a2ed30 000007fa`ba5c9217 duser!BaseMsgQ::xwProcessNL+0x95
00000000`03a2edb0 000007fa`ba5eb4c2 duser!DeferredMsgQueueLock::~DeferredMsgQueueLock+0xaf
00000000`03a2ede0 000007fa`ba5b1a3d duser!HWndContainer::xdHandleMessage+0x1494
00000000`03a2f4c0 000007fa`be4f171e duser!ExtraInfoWndProc+0x79
00000000`03a2f510 000007fa`be4f432b user32!UserCallWinProcCheckWow+0x13a
00000000`03a2f5d0 000007fa`ba67125d user32!CallWindowProcW+0x93
00000000`03a2f630 000007fa`ba6711f6 comctl32!CallOriginalWndProc+0x1d
00000000`03a2f670 000007fa`ba6713d7 comctl32!CallNextSubclassProc+0x82
00000000`03a2f6d0 000007fa`b1653a2f comctl32!DefSubclassProc+0x77
(Inline Function) --------`-------- twinui!DefSubclassProc+0x20
(Inline Function) --------`-------- twinui!CHostElement::_SubclassWndProc+0x3b
00000000`03a2f720 000007fa`ba6711f6 twinui!CHostElement::s_SubclassWndProc+0x43
00000000`03a2f750 000007fa`ba6710f2 comctl32!CallNextSubclassProc+0x82
00000000`03a2f7b0 000007fa`be4f171e comctl32!MasterSubclassProc+0xa2
00000000`03a2f850 000007fa`be4f14d7 user32!UserCallWinProcCheckWow+0x13a
00000000`03a2f910 000007fa`b1631264 user32!DispatchMessageWorker+0x1a7
00000000`03a2f990 000007fa`b16335c0 windows_immersiveshell_serviceprovider!CImmersiveShellController::_ImmersiveShellComponentsThreadProcInternal+0x2a6
00000000`03a2fa30 000007fa`bddd167e windows_immersiveshell_serviceprovider!CImmersiveShellController::s_ImmersiveShellComponentsThreadProc+0x75
00000000`03a2fa60 000007fa`c00a3501 kernel32!BaseThreadInitThunk+0x1a
00000000`03a2fa90 00000000`00000000 ntdll!RtlUserThreadStart+0x1d

0:004> r
Last set context:
rax=000000000c0e4e30 rbx=0000000008f73040 rcx=0000000000000000
rdx=0000000000000001 rsi=000000000af25460 rdi=000000000af25280
rip=000007fab17cf6de rsp=0000000003a2e620 rbp=0000000000000000
 r8=0000000000000000  r9=0000000010000000 r10=00000000fffffffc
r11=0000000000000000 r12=0000000000000000 r13=0000000008f72cc0
r14=0000000000000000 r15=0000000000000001
iopl=0         nv up ei pl nz na pe nc
cs=0033  ss=002b  ds=002b  es=002b  fs=0053  gs=002b             efl=00010202
twinui!CSafeElementPtrBase<DirectUI::Element>::operator class DirectUI::Element * [inlined in twinui!LayeredSubtreeState::Update+0xf6]:
000007fa`b17cf6de 488b4908        mov     rcx,qword ptr [rcx+8] ds:00000000`00000008=????????????????

I took apart the assembly and it looks like the box did something like this to set rcx (which is NULL, causing the crash):

Code:

0:004> u 000007fa`b17cf6d1
twinui!LayeredSubtreeState::_Layer+0x17b [inlined in twinui!LayeredSubtreeState::Update+0xe9]:
000007fa`b17cf6d1 0f8688feffff    jbe     twinui!LayeredSubtreeState::Update+0x2f (000007fa`b17cf55f)
000007fa`b17cf6d7 488b06          mov     rax,qword ptr [rsi]
000007fa`b17cf6da 4a8b0cf0        mov     rcx,qword ptr [rax+r14*8]   // <- rcx gets set here to something
000007fa`b17cf6de 488b4908        mov     rcx,qword ptr [rcx+8]
000007fa`b17cf6e2 4885c9          test    rcx,rcx
000007fa`b17cf6e5 740f            je      twinui!LayeredSubtreeState::Update+0x10e (000007fa`b17cf6f6)
000007fa`b17cf6e7 ff1593863600    call    qword ptr [twinui!_imp_?GetDisplayNodeElementDirectUIQEAAPEAUHGADGET__XZ (000007fa`b1b37d80)]
000007fa`b17cf6ed 488bc8          mov     rcx,rax

From the crash, it could be a problem in the twinui code, but twinui is talking to DirectX for coordinates and GPU information, so making sure you've got the latest WHQL certified driver for your box under Windows 8 is always critical. I see that you have both Intel and NVidia driver sets loaded, so I'm curious if this is a switchable graphics machine? If so, best to test with the Intel graphics only if possible.... this sort of setup has had issues since Windows 7 with drivers causing these sorts of issues, so I'd be curious as to whether or not it reproduces with just one enabled in the BIOS, and not both.

JohnnyGui · Mar 4, 2013

Thanks a lot for looking into this cluberti.

I do have the latest drivers installed (314.07 WHQL) for my GTX 660Ti GPU. The crash did occur after updating these drivers from 306.97 to 314.07 after the reformat. However, before the reformat these crashes also occurred under 306.97 so I don't think it's a specific driver issue. Could it be a DirectX issue?

I find it weird that both Intel and the nVidia driver sets are loaded. I checked in my UEFI settings and I can see I have only selected the PCI-Express (aka the GTX 660Ti) as the Primary Graphics Adapter, so I don't understand how the PC still loads both of them. Is there another option in the UEFI settings I should change to prevent it from loadig both drivers? Because I can't find any.

Also, it's quite hard to check which of these drivers (Intel or the GTX 660Ti) are the cause of this since the crash is quite rare and very random. Maybe I have to select each of the GPUs individually and stay with it for a while until a crash eventually occurs.

cluberti · Mar 4, 2013

Yeah, I'd like to see this run (I know it might be a pain, but bear with me) without the Nvidia adapter installed/running - if you can uninstall and / or disable the NVidia card, uninstall their drivers, and run only the onboard Intel card for a bit, that would be most useful. NVidia's drivers are better than ATI's usually, but that doesn't mean they're "good" either.

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