The direction of Windows

TheGrantFitz

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Windows is heading in the mobile direction, with under powered mobile PCs for outrageous prices. RT makes me shiver, and the next OS could even force me to a Mac.

But then again, begging for a start menu won't bring it back. MS isn't accepting the idea, and 8 would look strange without metro and the flattened look.

Officially, we're not getting aero. The point of buying 16 GB of RAM has been ruined, other than for gaming. People have gone out of there way for aero graphic cards. But why?

Is it going to get better, or worse? ;)

TheGrantFitz
:winkey:

PS: I loved 8 in every beta, but where is my eye-candy?
 

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If you bought 16gb of ram for gaming, than that is sad.
 

My Computer

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  • OS
    Windows 7
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    Self-Built in July 2009
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    Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz OC'd to 3.40Ghz
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    Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black, 32MB cache. WD1001FALS
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    Windows and Linux enthusiast. Logitech G35 Headset.
16GB of ram is for stuff like photoshop and matlab. Consumer graphics cards are for games. Workstation graphics cards are for cad/compute/photoshop/whatever. Aero for windows 7 will run on any new not very nice laptop now, with almost no memory or graphical overhead. Totally miss the eye candy though.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)
    CPU
    i5 2500
    Motherboard
    msi p67a-g43
    Memory
    16 GB DDR3 1333
    Graphics Card(s)
    2x Nvidia 9800 GTX+
Those "under powered mobile PCs" have pretty expensive screens and rather expensive, thin, and large batteries on them - the parts that actually matter to most business persons and everyday consumers alike (what does it look like and can I stare at it for a long time, oh and how long can it stay on before I have to plug in again). If you consider that a decent smartphone actually costs the handset manufacturer a few hundred US dollars a unit to design and manufacture, and those are then sold for more by carriers (either up front off-contract or over time with a phone/data plan), getting a computing device that can do those everyday tasks with a relatively easy on the eyes (and larger) screen with a battery that puts out a charge for 8-10 hours (and doesn't weigh a metric ton) is not that unimpressive.

But I think as a whole we've slowly been conditioned that these "tablet thingies" should cost around 200 USD simply because they use lower-powered RISC devices rather than the traditional screaming CISC design, without realizing what that means in terms of build quality, component quality, design goals, and other limitations at the bottom, is where that perception and reality start to diverge into oblivion. For example, I don't use a Kindle fire to do anything but read eBooks and play the odd game when I grab it off the table, but I wouldn't take it with me to try and do work on when I'm at a customer, have it be good enough to do that compared to a laptop 3x it's size and weight, and then still have the capability and battery life to also survive the 4 hour plane ride home while I use it to watch a movie, finish up the day's reports, and have a quick go at browsing the internet (with some juice to spare, no less).

It's OK for anyone out there to feel like somehow the devices like the Surface and other Win8 or WinRT tablet/convertible designs are overpriced and that they are somehow getting screwed at the register during check-out, but it doesn't make it a reality.
 

My Computer

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  • OS
    Windows 8.1 x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.5GHz
    Motherboard
    Asus Maximus Hero VII
    Memory
    32GB DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia GeForce GTX970
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    Realtek HD Audio
    Hard Drives
    1x Samsung 250GB SSD
    4x WD RE 2TB (RAIDZ)
    PSU
    Corsair AX760i
    Case
    Fractal Design Define R4
    Cooling
    Noctua NH-D15
I don't know about the manufacturing costs in that industry.

However, I did read mini ipad costs about $49 to make.

There are a lot mark ups after that.

Whatever it is, it is a fraction of the retail price.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    7/8/ubuntu/Linux Deepin
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
Just about every thing is over priced these days.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Pro
    CPU
    AMD FX-8150
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-990FX
    Memory
    8 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce 980
Just about every thing is over priced these days.

I don't agree, computers are cheap these day, I remember the day a floppy drive was the price of a recent notebook. A 22" monitor is $ 100 - 120, this is very cheap. A DVDRW is $ 16 , did you see the parts in a dvdrw ?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 enterprise x64
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Pc-Quebec / Area 66
    CPU
    i7-3960X Extreme Edition
    Motherboard
    Rampage IV Extreme
    Memory
    Gskill 4x4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    4 x HD 7970
    Sound Card
    onboard
    Screen Resolution
    2560*1600
    Hard Drives
    C:\Intel series 520 SSD , 250 GB
    D:\ WD 750 black with Intel 40gb SSD cache Intel RST
    E:\ WD 2TB Black
    PSU
    Corsair AX 1200
    Case
    TT Mozart TX
    Cooling
    Water Cooled
    Keyboard
    Logitech G-15
    Other Info
    Windows 8 VM is install on his own SSD.
Just about every thing is over priced these days.

I don't agree, computers are cheap these day, I remember the day a floppy drive was the price of a recent notebook. A 22" monitor is $ 100 - 120, this is very cheap. A DVDRW is $ 16 , did you see the parts in a dvdrw ?

Most items are overpriced because of inflation these days. It's eating all of us alive. :eek:

But when it comes to electronics, it starts out a little high, but drops after a short time. Here's an exert from Wikipedia on the first desktop PC:

The Programma 101 was the first commercial "desktop computer". Produced by Italian manufacturer Olivetti, it was launched at the 1964 New York World's Fair, volume production started in 1965. A futuristic design for its time, the Programma 101 was priced at $3,200 ($23,000 if adjusted to 2011). About 44,000 units were sold, primarily in the US.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer T690
    CPU
    Intel Pentium D Dual Core
    Motherboard
    Acer/Intel E946GZ
    Memory
    2GB (max upgrade)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3000 - PCI Express x16
    Sound Card
    Integrated RealTek ALC888 high-definition audio with 7.1 channel audio support
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer AL1917W A LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1440 X 900
    Hard Drives
    350 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10
    Thumb drives
    PSU
    Standard 250 watt
    Case
    Desktop 7.2" (183mm) W x 17.5" (445mm) L x 14.5"
    Cooling
    Dual case fans + CPU fan
    Keyboard
    Acer Windows PS/2
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    Wireless Microsoft Arc
    Internet Speed
    54mbp/s
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    Office Pro 2013 / Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows Phone 8.1DP GDR1
A 24'' IPS cost $300-500 4 years ago. A 24'' IPS costs $300-$500 today. Steady march of progress, right?(end unrelated monitor rant)

It's OK for anyone out there to feel like somehow the devices like the Surface and other Win8 or WinRT tablet/convertible designs are overpriced and that they are somehow getting screwed at the register during check-out, but it doesn't make it a reality.

A WinRT tablet has almost arguably inferior hardware to the iPad, and has practically equivalent hardware with cheaper Android tabs. But since it's running "windows," I'm not getting screwed over at all.....
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 RTM (Retinas taking damage...)
    CPU
    i5 2500
    Motherboard
    msi p67a-g43
    Memory
    16 GB DDR3 1333
    Graphics Card(s)
    2x Nvidia 9800 GTX+
Windows is heading in the mobile direction, with under powered mobile PCs for outrageous prices. RT makes me shiver, and the next OS could even force me to a Mac.

But then again, begging for a start menu won't bring it back. MS isn't accepting the idea, and 8 would look strange without metro and the flattened look.

Officially, we're not getting aero. The point of buying 16 GB of RAM has been ruined, other than for gaming. People have gone out of there way for aero graphic cards. But why?

Is it going to get better, or worse? ;)

TheGrantFitz
:winkey:

PS: I loved 8 in every beta, but where is my eye-candy?

OSX and iOS are merging as well. Furthermore, with few exceptions, it won't be long before 'desktop computing' as we know it is gone, replaced by devices connecting to either public or private clouds. As things stand now, Citrix, Microsoft and VMware all have technologies which allow a server to handle the graphics processing for a remote desktop instance.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP ProBook 4430s
    CPU
    Intel Core i3-2310M
    Memory
    16GB DDR3
    Hard Drives
    80GB Intel 320 SSD
    500GB Samsung Momentus
that's what I call the cloud terminals conspiracy. Conspiracy because they plan to rent everything we gone use. If it's not pay per usage.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 enterprise x64
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Pc-Quebec / Area 66
    CPU
    i7-3960X Extreme Edition
    Motherboard
    Rampage IV Extreme
    Memory
    Gskill 4x4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    4 x HD 7970
    Sound Card
    onboard
    Screen Resolution
    2560*1600
    Hard Drives
    C:\Intel series 520 SSD , 250 GB
    D:\ WD 750 black with Intel 40gb SSD cache Intel RST
    E:\ WD 2TB Black
    PSU
    Corsair AX 1200
    Case
    TT Mozart TX
    Cooling
    Water Cooled
    Keyboard
    Logitech G-15
    Other Info
    Windows 8 VM is install on his own SSD.
OS X and iOS are merging as well. Furthermore, with few exceptions, it won't be long before 'desktop computing' as we know it is gone, replaced by devices connecting to either public or private clouds. As things stand now, Citrix, Microsoft and VMware all have technologies which allow a server to handle the graphics processing for a remote desktop instance.
This, is the mobile revolution
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro, iOS 7.1, Elementary OS
    Computer type
    Tablet
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Apple
    Memory
    1 GB
    Screen Resolution
    2048x1536
    Other Info
    iPad Air
Windows RT tablets, so far, have better hardware than the ipad. The only thing that is arguable there is the retina display, which I think I might sue apple for using that name as my body does not approve. The Surface RT has a quad core processor and two gigs of RAM along with expandable storage. The ipad does not. For a base of 500, the Surface is WAY better of a deal than the ipad, which is all honesty just the ipod touch x 4. Speaking of such, the Surface RT itself only costs roughly 270 to build, the touch cover is like 16 dollars. So Microsoft is actually getting some money off the tablets themselves and KILLER profit off of the touch cover.

I call BS on touch PCs in general, especially mobile touch PCs. The average price of a Windows 7 PC at its launch is much lower than the average Windows 8 PC is now. Seriously, it's a tad difficult to find a touch enabled laptop under 1,000 dollars. Yet, touch AIOs are around 800 for better hardware specs. There is some serious markup going on here, as I'm still betting that OEMs are making the argument that their Windows 8 PCs are both tablets and laptops and therefore can charge a higher price that is lower than buying the two separately.

But as for the future of Windows and eye candy, I'd like more metro eye candy. I want more digital motion, and just more modern ooze throughout. Glassy window frames that take up less than 10 percent of the total UI is irrelevant to me. I was using 7 the other day and I felt weird. The window UI controls glowed when I hovered over them, everything glowed, there were these gradient like textures on something that is meant to look like glass. It was just strange that this was the latest cool thing years ago. Honestly, I really don't really think Microsoft originally intended Aero design to be means of focusing less on the window chrome itself and more on the content of said window, seems more like to keep up with mac os more or less. After using Windows 8 for all this time and going back and using 7, I found myself looking more at the window chrome than anything. Maybe I was just dumbstruck by the faux design or something. With Windows 8 however, I've found I notice the window chrome less and less. Odd.

Now I have to say, if you were running vista and had 16 gigs of RAM, that would be understandable as vista was radioactive pit of poo that even the developers that built vista didn't even run it on their personal machines. Even still with Windows 7, 16 gigs of RAM to run Aero is WAY overkill as they made the DWM more efficient and therefore use less VRAM and system RAM. I once ran 7 in a VM that only used one underclocked core of my CPU, 512 MB of RAM, and I believe I only dedicated 16 MB for video RAM. Aero worked fine as well as Windows itself. I think I also did that on the host system and set my motherboard's dedicated VRAM allocation to be 32 MB, worked great. It seems as long as the WDDM driver was current, Aero would work.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
The hardware might be better in the surface, but it doesn't have the cool factor, the app ecosystem and will be hindered by the Windows name...that some find synonymous with crashes, viruses, spyware and malware.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self-Built in July 2009
    CPU
    Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz OC'd to 3.40Ghz
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R rev. 1.1, F12 BIOS
    Memory
    8GB G.Skill PI DDR2-800, 4-4-4-12 timings
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA 1280MB Nvidia GeForce GTX570
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC899A 8 channel onboard audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" Acer x233H
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Intel X25-M 80GB Gen 2 SSD
    Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black, 32MB cache. WD1001FALS
    PSU
    Corsair 620HX modular
    Case
    Antec P182
    Cooling
    stock
    Keyboard
    ABS M1 Mechanical
    Mouse
    Logitech G9 Laser Mouse
    Internet Speed
    15/2 cable modem
    Other Info
    Windows and Linux enthusiast. Logitech G35 Headset.
The Surface might not have a cool factor, yet. It's single handedly been the talk of the tech town since the past summer. Everyone that knows of it would consider it for a tablet. Shoot, it's designed WAY cooler than the ipad and this is without the bias. A built in kickstand is something that has been needed for phablets. A good and convenient is real desired. Even on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon when they had a segment about new gadgets coming out and the Surface was shown off, there was a remark that went, "It's like an ipad but better! This was the people need!" That was just about the kickstand. Most people that see the Windows name might associate it with crashes, viruses and other STDs; but most will associate it with work and getting things done. No one goes to best buy in search of a PC to walk out with an ipad, and if you do; you probably will end up with buyer's regret and depression after spending hundreds of dollars of add-ons just to make it act more like a PC; only finally to find out that there was a more cost effective tablet PC running Windows 8. App ecosystem isn't like the ipad, but the Surface carries the Windows name; of which developers pay attention to. Windows is Windows, and Windows is synonymous with apps and developers. It's a time value-added product. Even the iphone's app store started out with only a mere hundreds of apps. Now look at it. Same will happen with Windows 8.

Are Swiss Army knives considered cool?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
The Surface might not have a cool factor, yet. It's single handedly been the talk of the tech town since the past summer.

Ya people was interested until they see the price, I know a reviewer on a well know forum , who can't wait to have one, when he see the price, he don't even want to make a review.


Are Swiss Army knives considered cool?

This is one of the coolest thing on the market and if you ask me , not that helpful
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 enterprise x64
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Pc-Quebec / Area 66
    CPU
    i7-3960X Extreme Edition
    Motherboard
    Rampage IV Extreme
    Memory
    Gskill 4x4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    4 x HD 7970
    Sound Card
    onboard
    Screen Resolution
    2560*1600
    Hard Drives
    C:\Intel series 520 SSD , 250 GB
    D:\ WD 750 black with Intel 40gb SSD cache Intel RST
    E:\ WD 2TB Black
    PSU
    Corsair AX 1200
    Case
    TT Mozart TX
    Cooling
    Water Cooled
    Keyboard
    Logitech G-15
    Other Info
    Windows 8 VM is install on his own SSD.
that's what I call the cloud terminals conspiracy. Conspiracy because they plan to rent everything we gone use. If it's not pay per usage.

You aren't that familiar with the concepts of cloud computing, are you?
Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP ProBook 4430s
    CPU
    Intel Core i3-2310M
    Memory
    16GB DDR3
    Hard Drives
    80GB Intel 320 SSD
    500GB Samsung Momentus
You aren't that familiar with the concepts of cloud computing, are you?

so you gone explain me ...

I think a few people here don't understand the purposes of Hyper-V and VMware Workstation.

seem you are good to say peoples don't know anything, but you don't care to explain why.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 enterprise x64
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Pc-Quebec / Area 66
    CPU
    i7-3960X Extreme Edition
    Motherboard
    Rampage IV Extreme
    Memory
    Gskill 4x4 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    4 x HD 7970
    Sound Card
    onboard
    Screen Resolution
    2560*1600
    Hard Drives
    C:\Intel series 520 SSD , 250 GB
    D:\ WD 750 black with Intel 40gb SSD cache Intel RST
    E:\ WD 2TB Black
    PSU
    Corsair AX 1200
    Case
    TT Mozart TX
    Cooling
    Water Cooled
    Keyboard
    Logitech G-15
    Other Info
    Windows 8 VM is install on his own SSD.
The Surface might not have a cool factor, yet. It's single handedly been the talk of the tech town since the past summer. Everyone that knows of it would consider it for a tablet. Shoot, it's designed WAY cooler than the ipad and this is without the bias. A built in kickstand is something that has been needed for phablets. A good and convenient is real desired. Even on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon when they had a segment about new gadgets coming out and the Surface was shown off, there was a remark that went, "It's like an ipad but better! This was the people need!" That was just about the kickstand. Most people that see the Windows name might associate it with crashes, viruses and other STDs; but most will associate it with work and getting things done. No one goes to best buy in search of a PC to walk out with an ipad, and if you do; you probably will end up with buyer's regret and depression after spending hundreds of dollars of add-ons just to make it act more like a PC; only finally to find out that there was a more cost effective tablet PC running Windows 8. App ecosystem isn't like the ipad, but the Surface carries the Windows name; of which developers pay attention to. Windows is Windows, and Windows is synonymous with apps and developers. It's a time value-added product. Even the iphone's app store started out with only a mere hundreds of apps. Now look at it. Same will happen with Windows 8.

Are Swiss Army knives considered cool?
But yet I don't know anybody personally that has one and aside from talk about the product, I don't know anybody with any plans to buy one either.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 7
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Self-Built in July 2009
    CPU
    Intel Q9550 2.83Ghz OC'd to 3.40Ghz
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R rev. 1.1, F12 BIOS
    Memory
    8GB G.Skill PI DDR2-800, 4-4-4-12 timings
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA 1280MB Nvidia GeForce GTX570
    Sound Card
    Realtek ALC899A 8 channel onboard audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    23" Acer x233H
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    Intel X25-M 80GB Gen 2 SSD
    Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black, 32MB cache. WD1001FALS
    PSU
    Corsair 620HX modular
    Case
    Antec P182
    Cooling
    stock
    Keyboard
    ABS M1 Mechanical
    Mouse
    Logitech G9 Laser Mouse
    Internet Speed
    15/2 cable modem
    Other Info
    Windows and Linux enthusiast. Logitech G35 Headset.
You aren't that familiar with the concepts of cloud computing, are you?

so you gone explain me ...

I think a few people here don't understand the purposes of Hyper-V and VMware Workstation.

seem you are good to say peoples don't know anything, but you don't care to explain why.

Because my inner snark is getting a bit sick of FUD, conspiracy theories, or people griping about products not working 'properly' when they are being used for the purposes other than what they intended.

Cloud computing isn't some grand scheme to slowly drain money out of people's pockets. It's a natural evolution of an increasingly interconnected world. The nature of computing is shifting - things are becoming distributed across networks of various sorts. Google Docs, Office 365, webmail, SkyDrive & Dropbox are all various facets of cloud computing, and they aren't all 'rent my space' or 'pay to use me.' Yes, Office 365 has a subscription fee, but you also have the option of buying the stand-alone version of Office or using Office for free via SkyDrive or Google Docs. I can guarantee you that companies like Microsoft and Terramark also keep their data centres secured. They aren't just going to have servers someone can randomly get into whenever they want. This doesn't even begin to address the concept of a private cloud, where a company's internal data centre handles the distributed computing.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows Server 2012 Standard w/Hyper-V
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    HP ProBook 4430s
    CPU
    Intel Core i3-2310M
    Memory
    16GB DDR3
    Hard Drives
    80GB Intel 320 SSD
    500GB Samsung Momentus
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