Quick rant about "hidden menus"

Coke Robot

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One of the things that is SO complained in Windows 8 is, "I don't see the Settings Charm all the time! I can't remember what app I have open because the app switch bar is hidden! Everything is hidden, why did they hide everything?!"

False.

I'll put some context here, I literally just this week found out in Windows 7 that you can change grouping view options in File Explorer. In Windows 8, this is so damn easy with the Ribbon because all you do is hit the View tab, and change grouping options to whatever. I think 8 has more options in that respect, but not the point. To do this in Windows 7, you have to RIGHT CLICK in empty space, to view a HIDDEN CONTEXT MENU, that you would have no bloody idea that it is there, no hint or indication or knowledge of, or even the realization such a thing exists.

So how is this different from something you don't need to see all the time, such as the Settings Charm (are you REALLY changing app settings all the time) versus a Desktop context menu that you ONLY need for file/view context once every few times?

THERE ISN'T.

The argument of "hidden" things in Windows 8 being detrimental is null and void.
 

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And the fact that things are supposedly 'hidden' has never been used by me as an argument against Win 8.

In fact, one of the things I like most about 8 and always have, is one of the hardest to find, it would seem.

That being the menu at the bottom-left that you get by right-clicking. The lack of this in Win 7 frustrates the
living bejaysus out of me!

Yes, there are things I dislike about W8, as you are well aware.

But this 'hidden, unfindable' business isn't, and hasn't been, one of them.

Wenda.


EDIT: And anyway, most of the so-called 'hidden' stuff in Win 8 actually isn't. It's just not in the same places
it was in XP, Vista, 7. Moved doesn't necessarily mean hidden. And as you point out, 8 isn't unique in having
features that can be hard to find.

A good example is the way the original 2001 build of XP Home (pre-SP1) didn't 'have' a Backup facility. Well, it
did, actually, but there was no way an average home user would ever have found it. It did not install by default
so one needed to go trawling through the files on the CD and install it manually from there.:(:cry::huh::rolleyes:
 

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Totally agree with you. The reason why it was done though was to declutter the UI of tablets and touchscreen devices, which is something that I think W8 does seamlessly.
 

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    Windows 8 Professional x64
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This has been an argument in several threads. Just ask some IT people here why they won't ever deploy Windows 8, "hidden UI elements that shouldn't be hidden."
 

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    Windows 8.1 Pro
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    ASUS
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    AMD FX 8320
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    Crosshair V Formula-Z
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    16 gig DDR3
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    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
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    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
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    Internet Explorer 11
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    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
This has been an argument in several threads. Just ask some IT people here why they won't ever deploy Windows 8, "hidden UI elements that shouldn't be hidden."

I honestly don't think that that's a reason not to deploy an OS as an IT department. For example, where I help out, we've decided to delay mass deployment of Windows 8 because it still lacks certain group policies that we need (its a school). However, the hidden or not issue is just a matter of training your users, once they know their way around the OS its a breeze, we've got kindergarteners and people from all ages using Windows 8 on certain PCs and they're loving it so far.
 

My Computer

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  • OS
    Windows 8 Professional x64
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    Custom Build
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    Intel i7-2600k
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    ASUS Sabertooth P67 B3
    Memory
    G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3 2x4GB 1600MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GTX580DCUII
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    PSU
    Corsair TX850v2
    Case
    Coolermaster HAF X
    Cooling
    Too much!
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 10
This has been an argument in several threads. Just ask some IT people here why they won't ever deploy Windows 8, "hidden UI elements that shouldn't be hidden."

I honestly don't think that that's a reason not to deploy an OS as an IT department. For example, where I help out, we've decided to delay mass deployment of Windows 8 because it still lacks certain group policies that we need (its a school). However, the hidden or not issue is just a matter of training your users, once they know their way around the OS its a breeze, we've got kindergarteners and people from all ages using Windows 8 on certain PCs and they're loving it so far.

Just go to the News subforum....
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8.1 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS
    CPU
    AMD FX 8320
    Motherboard
    Crosshair V Formula-Z
    Memory
    16 gig DDR3
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS R9 270
    Screen Resolution
    1440x900
    Hard Drives
    1 TB Seagate Barracuda (starting to hate Seagate)
    x2 3 TB Toshibas
    Windows 8.1 is installed on a SanDisk Ultra Plus 256 GB
    PSU
    OCZ 500 watt
    Case
    A current work in progres as I'll be building the physical case myself. It shall be fantastic.
    Cooling
    Arctic Cooler with 3 heatpipes
    Keyboard
    Logitech K750 wireless solar powered keyboard
    Mouse
    Microsoft Touch Mouse
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 11
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, but I might go back on KIS 2014
I agree with all three of you. Great insight, especially this:

Totally agree with you. The reason why it was done though was to declutter the UI of tablets and touchscreen devices, which is something that I think W8 does seamlessly.

Except we'll most likely get this kind of comment: "That's well and fine for a tablets and touchscreen devices, but it doesn't belong on a desktop PC". BS if it doesn't. All four hot corners including the right-click advanced context menu in the lower left corner works just fine with a mouse. The new Modern UI features are actually easier to use, especially the Charms Bar. I don't have to dive into a Start Menu to look for something that I need at hand.

e.g. This is the "Settings" selection within the Charms Bar of the desktop.

View attachment 22620

How many of these look familiar? Where did we have to look for these before?


Don't forget this beauty of which one can easily get anywhere in 8 including the desktop with a simple right click:

View attachment 22621
 

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Which is why it's definitely worth the time and effort to train your users on how to use the new UI :D

Great point with the settings bar, I've spent WAY too much time doing Start>Control Panel>X>Y :thumb:
 

My Computer

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  • OS
    Windows 8 Professional x64
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    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Build
    CPU
    Intel i7-2600k
    Motherboard
    ASUS Sabertooth P67 B3
    Memory
    G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3 2x4GB 1600MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GTX580DCUII
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    PSU
    Corsair TX850v2
    Case
    Coolermaster HAF X
    Cooling
    Too much!
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 10
we've got kindergarteners and people from all ages using Windows 8 on certain PCs and they're loving it so far.

It's comforting to know that the kindergarteners love it.
 

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we've got kindergarteners and people from all ages using Windows 8 on certain PCs and they're loving it so far.

It's comforting to know that the kindergarteners love it.

We are too. If they're loving it, that means they've learned in order to use it, therefore the learning curve can't be as steep as some claim. :)
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    8.1 Pro X64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Acer T690
    CPU
    Intel Pentium D Dual Core
    Motherboard
    Acer/Intel E946GZ
    Memory
    2GB (max upgrade)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 3000 - PCI Express x16
    Sound Card
    Integrated RealTek ALC888 high-definition audio with 7.1 channel audio support
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer AL1917W A LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1440 X 900
    Hard Drives
    350 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10
    Thumb drives
    PSU
    Standard 250 watt
    Case
    Desktop 7.2" (183mm) W x 17.5" (445mm) L x 14.5"
    Cooling
    Dual case fans + CPU fan
    Keyboard
    Acer Windows PS/2
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    Wireless Microsoft Arc
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    54mbp/s
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    Office Pro 2013 / Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows Phone 8.1DP GDR1
we've got kindergarteners and people from all ages using Windows 8 on certain PCs and they're loving it so far.

It's comforting to know that the kindergarteners love it.

We are too. If they're loving it, that means they've learned in order to use it, therefore the learning curve can't be as steep as some claim. :)

Yup, they've managed to mess with the Start Menu in ways that are hard to imagine, gonma have to track them down and ask them how they did it :D
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 8 Professional x64
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    System Manufacturer/Model
    Custom Build
    CPU
    Intel i7-2600k
    Motherboard
    ASUS Sabertooth P67 B3
    Memory
    G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3 2x4GB 1600MHz
    Graphics Card(s)
    ASUS GTX580DCUII
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    PSU
    Corsair TX850v2
    Case
    Coolermaster HAF X
    Cooling
    Too much!
    Browser
    Internet Explorer 10
Don't forget this beauty of which one can easily get anywhere in 8 including the desktop with a simple right click:

View attachment 22621


Not forgotten, it's actually one of the things I do really like about W8, as I said in my last post..

Hidden? No. I had no trouble finding it, and I use it all the time. And as I said earlier, I get extremely
frustrated very quickly when using my W7 or Vista machines as they don't have it.


Wenda.
 

My Computer

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    Acer AS8951G 'Desktop Replacement'.
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    i7-2670QM@2.2/3.1Ghz.
    Motherboard
    Acer
    Memory
    8GB@1366Mhz.
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    GeForce GT555M 2GB DDR3
    Sound Card
    Realtek HD w/Dolby 5.1 surround.
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    Built-in. Non-touch.
    Screen Resolution
    18/4" 1920x1080 full-HD.
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 750GBx2 internal. 1x2TB, 2x640GB, 1x500GB external.
    PSU
    Stock.
    Case
    Laptop.
    Cooling
    Stock.
    Keyboard
    Full 101-key
    Mouse
    USB cordless.
    Browser
    IE11, Firefox, Tor.
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender, MalwareBytes Pro.
    Other Info
    BD-ROM drive.
Not forgotten, it's actually one of the things I do really like about W8, as I said in my last post..

Hidden? No. I had no trouble finding it, and I use it all the time. And as I said earlier, I get extremely
frustrated very quickly when using my W7 or Vista machines as they don't have it.

Wenda.

In fact, one of the things I like most about 8 and always have, is one of the hardest to find, it would seem.

That being the menu at the bottom-left that you get by right-clicking. The lack of this in Win 7 frustrates the living bejaysus out of me!

Yes, I noticed you stated that and wanted to emphisize that. My apology that I did not reference you. :eek:

And yes, once I learned this system It's difficult for me to use 7. I continue to do business on my 7 side. It's like changing musical instruments. LOL. The other day I was there and had forgotten I was in 7. I pushed WinKey > 2 arrows right > Enter > thinking I was opening a folder in Start Screen. The machine started entering sleep. I had a good chuckle. :D
 

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    Acer/Intel E946GZ
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    2GB (max upgrade)
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    Integrated RealTek ALC888 high-definition audio with 7.1 channel audio support
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    Acer AL1917W A LCD
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    1440 X 900
    Hard Drives
    350 GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10
    Thumb drives
    PSU
    Standard 250 watt
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    Desktop 7.2" (183mm) W x 17.5" (445mm) L x 14.5"
    Cooling
    Dual case fans + CPU fan
    Keyboard
    Acer Windows PS/2
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    Wireless Microsoft Arc
    Internet Speed
    54mbp/s
    Browser
    IE11
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    Office Pro 2013 / Nokia Lumia 1520 Windows Phone 8.1DP GDR1
One of the things that is SO complained in Windows 8 is, "I don't see the Settings Charm all the time! I can't remember what app I have open because the app switch bar is hidden! Everything is hidden, why did they hide everything?!"

False.

I'll put some context here, I literally just this week found out in Windows 7 that you can change grouping view options in File Explorer. In Windows 8, this is so damn easy with the Ribbon because all you do is hit the View tab, and change grouping options to whatever. I think 8 has more options in that respect, but not the point. To do this in Windows 7, you have to RIGHT CLICK in empty space, to view a HIDDEN CONTEXT MENU, that you would have no bloody idea that it is there, no hint or indication or knowledge of, or even the realization such a thing exists.

So how is this different from something you don't need to see all the time, such as the Settings Charm (are you REALLY changing app settings all the time) versus a Desktop context menu that you ONLY need for file/view context once every few times?

THERE ISN'T.

The argument of "hidden" things in Windows 8 being detrimental is null and void.
Why do you say that?

If a new user doesn't find that right-click option in Windows 7 Explorer, then there's plenty of visible UI to tell them what to do.

Either
* they click on the ? icon to get help and find out how to do it or
* they decide they want to exit Windows Explorer, which is easy because they can see Explorer is visible on the Taskbar and can interact with that or
* their icons remain forever ungrouped, which is no big drama.

The point is, you can do the basic functionality of most applications and the OS itself using visible UI. If you don't find right-click, you can still get by.

But for example, if a user in Windows 8 clicks a PDF on an email, and are unexpectedly sent into Reader, there's no visible way out if you don't know the trick.

I just tried it and all I get is the PDF itself, a +/- control and a scroll bar. Even if you remembered about right-click, it still doesn't help you - you can close the file but still can't exit the app, not even with the icon at the top left that looks like a Back button but was in fact disabled for some reason when I tried it.

And there's no visible Help, and of course no visible Taskbar from which you can close the app.

So, for a new user, the "hidden" UI is a very big issue in Windows 8 because you can't do the basics of navigating the system.
 

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