Metro Browsers

TheGrantFitz

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Hi, all! :)

It's nice to be back on Eight Forums for a day.
What is your favorite metro browser? (correct me if metro's name changed again, I'll stick with metro for now! :p)

Default.jpg


Here's some info on a few:

Mozilla Firefox Preview for Windows 8
metro-screenshot-big.png

For those of you running the 64-bit RTM release of Windows 8, you can now download a nightly build of Mozilla Firefox from the Elm development branch and start testing. Elm is the experimental repository where most of our Metro development work has been happening. This repository produces nightly builds, much like the Firefox Nightly channel. Once installed, these builds will self-update so that you can track Metro Firefox development.


Firefox has come to the preview phase of there new browser, with nightly builds and a new interface. In my opinion, it may have been better integrated into the OS than Chrome's "desktop oriented" transfer.

Chrome for Metro
mobile-chrome-hero.png

Chrome is on a variety of devices, including iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and now, 8. It is almost a replica of the desktop edition, just without a top (menu bar, minimize, maximize, close). Instead of focusing on tablets, Chrome Metro wants to make it usable for PC users and bigger buttons for tablet users, actually quite simple.

Internet Explorer 10
IE 10 was built for touch, with almost as many experiments as Chrome just to show off Microsoft's new browser.
800px-IE10_ModernUI.png

A Test Project

Yes, the whole browser is almost entirely new in Metro form, but the desktop edition looks almost identical to its predecessor.

So, what do you think? :)
 

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Right now, I use Chrome instead of IE because it's easier to deal with tabs in Chrome.
 

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Right now, I use Chrome instead of IE because it's easier to deal with tabs in Chrome.
Same, Kebero!
IE is a lot less manageable for me and I might become a firefox user if chrome doesn't touch it up! :)
 

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Is there a 32bit IE10 in W8 64bit OS?

In W7 64bit it has a 32bit version of IE as well as the 64bit. I need the 32bit as the 64bit won't open the Taxation Department Portal for lodging tax returns and quarterly BAS statements online.

Does anyone know if the 64bit version of W8 Pro have a 32bit version of IE10?
 

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In the modern browser, where the only add-on that's allowed is flash, you'll be browsing with 64bit only on 64bit Windows 8. In the desktop browser on 64bit Windows 8, 32bit IE content tabs are still the default, though the browser process itself that hosts the UI "chrome" (also known as the frame process) will be 64bit- tabs inside will stay 32bit. You can't manually launch the 32bit browser anymore, for that reason (you can actually still find it on the filesystem in \Program Files (x86)\Internet Explorer\, but if you launch it from there it will just close itself and spawn a 64bit browser process instead). It's worth noting that on Windows 8 there's an advanced option in desktop IE called "Enable Enhanced Protected Mode", which loads all tabs as 64bit processes and adds the additional AppContainer security to those processes (similar to what the modern browser does).

It's all documented here:
Understanding Enhanced Protected Mode - IEInternals - Site Home - MSDN Blogs
 

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Good subject matter, Grant.

Thanks for that tweek, cluberti. I'll check that out. :)

I've stuck with IE, for I don't care to use 3rd party programs on my machine unless I have to. I think it causes problems IMO.

One of the things I don't like about 8 is the Modern IE. I just find it difficult to navigate in and I'm a big shortcut keys user. Tabs are manageable with shortcut keys , but I find it difficult to get to the favorites bar at the bottom. If there was an option to keep it open, it may help, but then I have to scroll over a lot to get to a site link needed. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, or there may be more shortcut keys that exist. Perhaps someone can fill me in.

Anywho, I end up getting frustrated, close it out, and open the desktop version. Now there I pin my favorites to the left of my screen where my most used are at the top of the list. Plenty of real estate on mt 17-inch screen. A few first ones are folders that I open depending on where I'm cruising. This forum being one. EightForums home page where I sign in. Six tab keys gets to the user name box -> one arrow down highlights the stored name -> enter -> one tab key gets to the password box -> type password -> one enter key. Now while you may think this takes longer than with a mouse, it's not. <- Sorry. I went off on a tangent!

Subscribed threads next. Some favorite ones next and so on. I may need a dictionary, YouTube, or other sites in other tabs.

What would really be great in a browser is that it would open up with multiple tabs of one's favorites of choice -> Say 3 or 4 tabs all set up and ready to go.
 

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Thanks for that tweek, cluberti. I'll check that out. :)
No problem :).

...but I find it difficult to get to the favorites bar at the bottom. If there was an option to keep it open, it may help, but then I have to scroll over a lot to get to a site link needed. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, or there may be more shortcut keys that exist. Perhaps someone can fill me in.
Pressing F4 brings up the bottom URL bar, including the favorites, pinned sites, etc. above it. I prefer pinned sites (in fact, I have a group of them) and typing in the name does bring it up, but it's pretty obvious that the "favorites" placement in the modern UI picker has been relegated to last, with Pinned and Frequent before it. If you haven't tried pinning sites, give it a try (and again, if you end up with a lot of them, use a group and put it where they'll be easy for you to use on your Start screen) - I've gone to doing this pretty much full-time, and only using desktop IE in a pinch.

What would really be great in a browser is that it would open up with multiple tabs of one's favorites of choice -> Say 3 or 4 tabs all set up and ready to go.
If you set multiple home pages in desktop IE's Tools > Internet Options, the modern IE browser will open those too.
 

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I prefer Chrome. Their sync functionality has worked great for years, and I use a couple of add-ons and when I install the browser on a new computer, my bookmarks, my bookmark bar and my add-on's magically show up. I have the same bookmarks whether I am at work on my laptop, at work on my desktop, at home on my desktop, at home on my tablet or on my phone. And then there is the fact that I use Linux as well as Windows...and well...IE simply isn't available.

I've also had no problems with malware related issues while on Chrome. I've seen quite a number of people at work who have gotten infected with drive-by downloads and malware and every single time these users were on IE. I'm of the opinion that this isn't a coincidence.
 

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I use Chrome as well, but given IE (assuming you sync it with a Live / Microsoft ID, similar to using your Google ID to sync Chrome settings) does this as well with Windows 8, it would at least be a wash for IE on Win8. Chrome can do this across multiple OSes, so that's a plus for Chrome if you need that, of course.

As to malware, if you're not logged on as an admin IE should be running in a low-IL sandbox, so getting malware or viruses should be pretty difficult (and in the off chance infection did occur, this would only affect the currently logged on user's profile - bad, but not recoverable). Most of the problems I've run across since Vista where IE was used as a malware vector stemmed from being logged in as an administrator, which unfortunately Microsoft still uses as the default for the first user. There's good reason for that, but it still isn't good. With Win8 and the inclusion of AppContainers, this really isn't an issue anymore and it should quash stuff like this. An attack vector would be easier with desktop software, although desktop IE can be opted-in to the new security model to protect it further. I'm guessing we'll see Windows 8 attacks come some other way - the browser is really not an easy target anymore, even if you are logged in as an administrator.
 

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In the modern browser, where the only add-on that's allowed is flash, you'll be browsing with 64bit only on 64bit Windows 8. In the desktop browser on 64bit Windows 8, 32bit IE content tabs are still the default, though the browser process itself that hosts the UI "chrome" (also known as the frame process) will be 64bit- tabs inside will stay 32bit. You can't manually launch the 32bit browser anymore, for that reason (you can actually still find it on the filesystem in \Program Files (x86)\Internet Explorer\, but if you launch it from there it will just close itself and spawn a 64bit browser process instead). It's worth noting that on Windows 8 there's an advanced option in desktop IE called "Enable Enhanced Protected Mode", which loads all tabs as 64bit processes and adds the additional AppContainer security to those processes (similar to what the modern browser does).

It's all documented here:
Understanding Enhanced Protected Mode - IEInternals - Site Home - MSDN Blogs
Thanks for the input. When I said the Tax Portal would only open with IE9 32bit, that was in W7. I've since done a bit more testing.

I'm currently running W8 Enterprise 64bit, with Ex7forW8 hacked start orb, which incudes explorer files from W7 installation disc. Using this, in the Explorer 7 mode, Metro and Explorer 8 are switched off.

With this setup there are two IE10s, a 64 & 32bit version in Program files and Program files (x86). And from desktop both versions will open the tax portal. And that is a big plus for IE10.

The question is, when I buy the OEM builder retail version of W8 Pro 64bit will it work the same as the Enterprise version? I don't want to buy it and then find I'm stuck with something that won't work. I'm guessing from what you've said re 32bit tabs that when I open IE10 from the 64bit program files, since it's on the desktop, it's opening with the 32bit tabs?
 

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With this setup there are two IE10s, a 64 & 32bit version in Program files and Program files (x86). And both versions will open the tax portal. And that is a big plus for IE10.
That's because they both load 32bit tabs - they're the same browser engine, so running one over the other makes NO difference at all - the tabs are all still 32bit, hence why they both work. That site seems like it would have an activex control loaded on it if it doesn't work in modern IE, as a 64bit rendering engine would render a site exactly the same as a 32bit rendering engine - the only difference is the ability to load activex controls, which desktop can do with 32bit tabs.

The question is, when I buy the OEM builder retail version of W8 64bit will it work the same as the Enterprise version? I don't want to buy it and then find I'm stuck with something that won't work. I'm guessing from what you've said re 32bit tabs that when I open IE10 from the 64bit program files, since it's on the desktop, it's opening with the 32bit tabs?
Yes indeed - the desktop browser behaves the same regardless of if it's a 32bit or 64bit browser - the tabs are 32bit. It's why, by default (before you hacked the OS ;)), opening the 32bit browser on a 64bit system launched the 64bit browser instead (it's a safer container than the 32bit browser container). And to your first question - yes, the IE behavior here would be the same regardless of product edition.

Ultimately, your site's issue is not specifically a Win8 problem (it's a problem caused by IE's security and control design on Win8), but it is the same problem that ANY site with an activex control will face on Win8 in the modern browser. What the site developer(s) would want to do is actually add the "requiresActiveX=true" meta tag to the site's page(s) that tells the modern browser that the site requires the desktop browser - the user will see a pop up, be able to launch the desktop browser automatically to the site, and it would work. After that, the web developer would want to stop using activex controls, long term, and design for web standards and (recommended) touch support.
 

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@cluberti Wow! I'm impressed. Thanks very much for the input. It's put my mind at rest. I was thinking of getting the 32bit to be safe as I use the tax portal all the time. However, I prefer 64bit and will now proceed with that. So thanks again. :thumb: :D I'll be going full steam ahead with W8 Pro 64bit OEM disk version from retailer.

It's interesting to note that Firefox would open the tax portal on W7 64bit. But I prefer IE, and never checked if the Firefox was 32 or 64bit.
 

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The site might very well have logic around detection of the browser, and provide different content based on it (it's a very common practice). What's usually quite funny is if the site provided the same code to IE10 as it does to Firefox (where no ActiveX controls could ever be loaded, as it's not IE) the site would very, VERY likely have loaded and worked fine inside the modern IE browser ;). This smells of site design from many years ago and poor/old-style browser version detection, which Microsoft doesn't really recommend either nowadays (because stuff like this happens):
HTML5 - Browser and Feature Detection

The problem with this approach is twofold. First, it bundles multiple assumptions about the features the browser supports in one check. A single wrong assumption can break the site. So as a developer you have to keep track of exactly which features each version of a specific browser supports.

The second issue is that this browser check doesn’t take browser versions into consideration and therefore isn’t future-proof. Even if it works with today’s version of a browser, the next release might not require—or worse, might remove support altogether for—a workaround that the browser detection was used to add to the site.

Therefore, if you have to use browser detection, make sure you take the version into consideration and only use this approach to detect legacy browsers, as shown in Figure 1
 

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I use Chrome as well, but given IE (assuming you sync it with a Live / Microsoft ID, similar to using your Google ID to sync Chrome settings) does this as well with Windows 8, it would at least be a wash for IE on Win8. Chrome can do this across multiple OSes, so that's a plus for Chrome if you need that, of course.
Yeah, IE is coming along in that respect. But I'm not going to be on Windows 8 for quite some time, and certainly not on all of my WIndows machines. And I do want the multi OS support, at least for Linux and Android.
 

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@cluberti It's hard to know what's going on with the web site. The Australian Taxation Department web site runs the initiating tax portal entry point, but this opens a separate secure window. This 2nd window in turn acts as a gateway to the actual tax department records for each individual's files. But to open the gateway to access the tax records, the second window uses Java to locate and verify a digital certificate called AusKey, which is provided by a 3rd party commercial company.

In IE9 64bit in W7, the secure window opened by the tax portal cannot detect the AusKey digital certificate. But it can detect it in 32bit IE9. Maybe it's Java that's the problem by not working in 64bit?
 

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If it really is java (and not javascript), then that's your issue right there. Java - /spit ;).
 

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If it really is java (and not javascript), then that's your issue right there. Java - /spit ;).
When the secure window opens in 32bit IE9, the Java icon appears in the bottom right notification area, and if the mouse is hovered over it, the baloon message says: Java Platform. It then auto detects the AusKey and allows the password to be entered in the secure window to log in.

If the same procedure is done with 64bit IE9, the Java icon does not appear, and the error message comes up on the screen: "You do not have any of the software that is required to login." This means it can't detect the AusKey because Java is not working.

I'm don't know if it's Java or Java script?
 

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If you don't have the 64bit Java package installed, this would happen. On 64bit OSes, you would need to install both the 32bit and 64bit Java installers to cover both scenarios.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
 

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Many thanks cluberti. I've installed the 64bit Java package and all good, working on both 34 & 64bit IE9. :thumb:

I also run Free Download Manager, and have noticed the same scenario with this app. It auto opens to download stuff with 32bit IE9, but not in 64bit. However, DLM does not offer a 64bit version and only loads to Program files (x86).

Cheers M :D
 

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Seriously, Google Chrome is better in my opinion, than any browser. I don't have Windows 8, so I don't know about what is best on Metro. What do you guys like?
 

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